Geoff's system

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Geoff
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Geoff's system

Post by Geoff »

I first and foremost, want to thank Frederik for creating this site. From that comes a thank you to all the members for posting and making this a thriving marketplace. Although Linn is a niche product, this site provides an encyclopedic database of prices. Frederik, I thank you for keeping the "sold" items, and the pricing reported therein. Every market needs transparent pricing information, and reliable pricing information is hard to find in other sources. This allows those of us on the upgrade path to calculate budgets. Audiogon charges, and Ebay doesn't do it anymore. I remember early in the decade how you could still get "sold" information on Ebay. It still may be there, but you may well have to dig for it.

As for my all Linn setup I start with a Classik T/K via black interconnects into an unDynamiked AV5125 with stereo Aktiv cards bridged with short blacks. I use K400 to connect to my Aktiv Katans. Right now I'm using Foobar 2000 to stream digital content from my Acer Revo RL-100 through an HRT streamer into AUX on the Classik.

My upgrade path is to hopefully first replace the Classik with a Majik DS/M/0/1/D. From there perhaps an Akurate DSM-D. I don't know what I'll do from there. I think I'd like floorstanders because I live in an earthquake prone country. I'm in my present state of kit mostly because my Index's fell off their stands during a 6.x magnitude quake. I now lovingly remove the Katan's from stands, and place them on a safe shelf after listening, which is a pain in the pigu. I was truly impressed by the difference that Aktiv made. This means I will need a new amp as most floorstanders will need at least 6 channels for Aktiv.

Regardless, that is years from now. I'd like to get the Majik in the fall of next year however, as I want to be able to stream to a Linn and eliminate the HRT streamer.

FInally, could a MOD please enable my PM function?
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Post by lejonklou »

Thanks for joining and for your kind words, Geoff!

Pm function enabled.
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Re: Geoff's system

Post by Charlie1 »

Geoff wrote:My upgrade path is to hopefully first replace the Classik with a Majik DS/M/0/1/D. From there perhaps an Akurate DSM-D. I don't know what I'll do from there. I think I'd like floorstanders because I live in an earthquake prone country.
Whilst I've not heard the setups myself, Anthony on this forum has installed a few Majik DSM/Majik 140 systems and always been impressed, so that might be worth a dem in future.

Are you set on aktiv? Don't underestimate a better quality passive amp versus lesser quality aktiv amps. As to which is more musical, then it will likely depend upon the amps and speakers in question. Aktiv needs careful setup and perhaps some tweaking to match passive in some respects, even when using the same quality amp.
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Post by Geoff »

Well it all comes down to budget and availability of kit. I read www.zerohedge.com too much, and thus I feel the end is nigh, so I don't want to spend too much. My 5125 is a fine piece of kit, but the price differential to a 6100 isn't that great, so I could do that if that is your intimation. I was so blown away by going Aktiv, and lots of reading confirms my feelings that Aktiv is the best bang for buck upgrade.

I may not be able to get to M140, but Kelidh or 5140's may be in my price range. One of my real problems is my room too. I think 109's would help as they can be placed close to a wall because they vent forward. My Katans vent rearward into a very boomy wall unit like contraption. I find myself sometimes needing to shove socks in my ports to stop the boom. Speakers are my last in my buying chain though. I'd be happy to try to max out these Katans first. Most importantly, I want to get DS first as my outboard USB HRT streamer is the weakest link in my chain right now.
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Post by Charlie1 »

Geoff wrote:Most importantly, I want to get DS first as my outboard USB HRT streamer is the weakest link in my chain right now.
Sounds like a good plan to me

I suspect you will find the Keilidh a downgrade from the Katan, so that might not be much fun
Last edited by Charlie1 on 2013-12-02 11:40, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Geoff »

Ya I just looked at the 5140 and it has a lot of rear firing drivers. I need a floorstander to go tight to the wall. What floorstander does that? Do your Ninkas? Could I go Aktiv with my 5125 for Ninkas, or do I need more channels of amplification? That's my main drive to get 109's, but then I need to dump the 5125 and get a 6100.
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Post by lejonklou »

Hi Geoff!

Please note that the direction the drivers are firing has little to do with how close to the rear wall the speaker can stand. This is a common misconception.

Some designs work best really close to the rear wall, but these are increasingly rare these days. The standard situation is that the optimal distances vary with each particular room. Often they are in the region of 10 to 30 cm.
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Post by kampak »

Hi Geoff

IMHO your 5125 is a excellent match for the Ninka, and yes, you can go aktiv with that set.

You´ll need a minimum of 4 power channels to drive the Ninka aktiv (also you can power up 6ch aktiv on them - ninka is a 2way/3chassis Loudspeaker)

With 1 5125 amp you have to Bi-wire the Mid/Bass units.

I did this with Keilidhs (Ninkas predecessor), and that was good fun.

lgKarsten
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Post by Geoff »

Frederik, I live in Asia in a small apartment. It "features" a wall unit that has a shelf and thin luan plywood structure surrouning it that sits off the wall about the width of a 2x6. So basically this 2m high 3m wide box exists exactly where I have to locate my Katans. Because they, the Katans, fire their lovely Aktiv 60Hz bass rearward this wall unit creates boomy resonance that forces me to bring them too far into the room on their stands for proper placement... equilateral triangle blah blah blah. I think that the Ninkas could sit closer to this boombox without causing as much resonance, and the 109's could do the same. Is there a way to host the images on your site? I don't want to create the potential for a dead link by putting them anywhere other than here.

Anyone care to speak on a direct comparison of Ninkas vs Katans in an Aktiv setup with a 5125? I guess I can't go tri Aktiv with the 5125, but at least bi-Aktiv with stereo cards would be where I'd go.

I do really want to get a Majik DSM first though, I know the Classik is the bottleneck, but the boom is pissing me off.
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Post by lejonklou »

You are mistaken regarding the rear facing port. It doesn't matter which direction it is firing, the distance to rear wall depends on other parameters.

Also forget the idea of the equilateral triangle. It's of absolutely no use and originates from when the concept of stereo was unknown to the masses and people needed basic education.

Katan is imho a much better speaker than Ninka and in most rooms Katan can be placed a little closer to the rear wall. The optimal position varies with each room so this is not true in all cases.

There is unfortunately no hosting of pictures here. You can link to pictures hosted elsewhere.
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Post by Geoff »

Your view is interesting. I look at Katan's as humble entry level units. They do blow me away though now in Aktiv mode/great amplification. I read here that you use 109's as a reference in some of your testing. How would they compare to the Katan's? Are they "better"?

I want floorstanders for earthquake issues, so would be willing to put up with some lesser qualities for that stability. But if you're saying the bookshelfs are better than the floorstanders I can suffer slightly less stability in relentless pursuit of tunefullness.
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Post by lejonklou »

I understand the point about floorstanders being more stable. They also in general have a more full range sound, so it feels a bit sad to say that in my opinion:
Tukan was better than Keilidh,
Katan was better than Ninka, and
109 is better than 140.

The 109's are definitely more tuneful than Katan. They are also less boomy (bass is leaner) and overall more nuanced and detailed. I no longer have a pair, but occasionally miss them. Fun, versatile and great value for money.
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Post by Geoff »

I read your whole "my system" thread and the one thing I now question is what your whole system is now. I realise that a) it changes alot due to prototyping b) because of that it may even be a trade secret! But I'm still curious what is your "go to", "daily driver" kit. You should update the first post in that thread if possible.

You do make me happy though, hearing your vote for 5125/AktivKatans. I may well be able to be able to stop the desperate upgrade need once I get a MDSM/ADSM. The longer I wait, the cheaper a 109/unnamed amp back end becomes too. I need to spend less time here and more back at zerohedge.
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Post by lejonklou »

Geoff wrote:I read your whole "my system" thread and the one thing I now question is what your whole system is now. I realise that a) it changes alot due to prototyping b) because of that it may even be a trade secret! But I'm still curious what is your "go to", "daily driver" kit. You should update the first post in that thread if possible.
a) is more correct than b) and for that reason I don't even try keeping it updated. But I will make a post now (in the end, not the beginning), about my current situation.
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Post by SaltyDog »

Thank you for posting at the end. The edited posts don't seem to announce themselves.
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Post by lejonklou »

SaltyDog wrote:Thank you for posting at the end. The edited posts don't seem to announce themselves.
Yes, that's true. Only new posts trigger the forum to send the email that notifies you of "This topic has received a reply since your last visit".
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Re: Geoff's system

Post by Geoff »

I realised this might be a valuable update. I've done many big jumps, followed by periods of extended tweaking. First, I went from the Classik with a "meh" DAC to an OPPO 105D>blacks>5125>K400>aktiv Katans. Wow, what a difference! Later I added silvers and they were a pleasant addition. I've been tempted to bring the CLassik back out again and try it straight into the Ninkas in biwire to see what it's like, but I'm too lazy to change the aktiv plates.

If you're new to hifi, and bored enough to actually read this, note these things as they really make a difference, and can be done cheaply. Several of my key tweaks along the way are notable because they had very little actual costs. First was beefing up my stands. I'm lucky my city is a major machine tool center, so have lots of folks who work with steel. I had 1cm steel plates milled and attached them top and bottom to the flimsy stands I had, found some good rubber feet for them, and that gave the Katans a solid base. This significantly improved all aspects of the sound, sharpened up and broadened out the soundstage. At this moment I started really trying to find the perfect positioning too, and also started putting a blanket over the plasma for serious listening sessions.

My next major improvement came with the simple tweak of putting the Oppo and 5125 onto Ikea Aptitlig bamboo cutting boards with felt feet directly on the tile over concrete floor. Previously, I had them on an extremely resonant entertainment center. I was surprised at how much this gave me. The bass tightened up audibly, and the sound became much more coherent overall.

The Katan setup lasted about a year, then the upgrade bug struck when a complete aktiv 109, C6100D, and cabling setup came available here. I jumped at it, but because I'm a bit of a basshead I just couldn't love the 109's. I think Frederik's comments about them above are true. They are so incredibly resolving. With all of the tweaking done to the system before, stands, placement, etc. I was blown away by the accuracy and detail of the speakers. However I wasn't in love the way I was with the Katans. Because of this, when I stumbled along a pair of Ninkas I jumped at the chance to get the bass I knew I needed. I did think long and hard about trying to just get a subwoofer for the 109's, and toyed with getting a BKelec unit, but I didn't have the space in my small apartment, and knew it might be vetoed by the decorator. I was also worried about getting it properly set up. In many ways I wish I had at least tried to do this, but I now had three sets of loudspeakers and a spare amp lying around that were not appreciated by the decorator.

During this period of overlap of the three speakers I was able to test them extensively, in various configurations ,which was a great luxury for me. I have no doubt that the Ninkas are the goldilocks speaker for me. They aren't perfect, but they are what I can live with for a long time. Most folks say that with Space, and eventual Exakt they will continue to improve, never being a bottleneck. I've mulled doing the Hiquphon tweeter update to get closer to the 109's sound, while keeping the balance of Ninkishness, but I'll wait and see what the MDSM source first does, and then Exakt.

At one point I tried all as passive, and I could see the argument, made by many here, for a good passive (Tundra) amp setup. That did make me think of a 4200, or a Tundra. When I listened passive did seem to bring a certain coherence, but it also lost all those things that Aktiv brings. Neutrality is a goal, but I still want the benefits, however coloured, aktiv has shown me it can bring.

This whole thing has been fun, I've talked with some interesting people (thanks everyone), and have stayed out of trouble throughout this (ongoing) process. I just downloaded and read the Space setup guide from LinnDocs today and that is going to be hours of fun working to get the most out of it.

The last of the excess componentry left this week, leaving me with Oppo>silvers>C6100D>K600>Aktiv Ninkas. The upgrade monkey started howling again, thanks to this wonderful site, I've found an MDSM/2. That will be landing hopefully by the end of the month. I'm going to keep the Oppo, but only use it for video duties. I don't know how long I will keep the aktiv setup using the C6100D for. I'm buying the MDSM with the plan to use it alone, passive, into the Ninkas once the 6100 leaves. I'll try to stop for a while, but I will then be on the hunt for an Exaktbox-i...if the world economy doesn't collapse and China tries to start the war, that never actually ended, back up again. I don't think I will be able to get Ninkas into the last helicopter off the roof somehow...but maybe an MDSM in my backpack.
AEDSM,Akurate Exaktbox-i Kat,Akudoriks,K600
Netgear108T,QNAP TS451+,BJC CAT6a
Majik 126,Exakt subbox
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