Marmite's system

marmite · Post by **marmite** » 2012-02-19 06:24

Hi all.

Thought I should reveal my current set up, and it's recent changes. I used to be on the Linn forum, so some of you will be able to figure out who I am (even with a different user name). It seems as if most of the guys with decent advice (Thomas OK, Music Lover, Salty, Rowland, hcl, charlie,etc. are on here)
The thing that attracted me to this forum is the fact that you can talk about differences you 'can' hear without being ridiculed by someone because of the "that's impossible" attitude that some have. I stopped posting about the differences in musicality of various software releases because I was fed up being told it couldn't happen. Blind tests easily sorted that one out, so I've satisfied my own curiosity there.

There have been a lot of renovations going on at Marmite towers, and the original plan was for a dedicated listening room. But...while I was doing the bathrooms and the kids bedrooms (evenings and weekend as work is hectic) I realised what an anti social place a dedicated listening room would be. The whole family love music, but still want to be doing other things at the same time. We have a great open plan living/dining/kitchen area which is a fantastic social space, and where we spend most of our (indoor) time. The problem (acoustically) is wooden floors, no curtains or blinds, and 4m wide glass folding doors at the kitchen end. The only soft furnishings are a 3 + 1 sofa, a thin floor rug and 2 oil on canvass paintings.
I borrowed a couple of GIK traps, then copied them and started experimenting. I quickly noticed that I was going to end up with quite a few, so I abandoned that idea as it ruined the minimalist feel of the room. And, most of these treatments have little effect below 100hz. My main issues were around 40 and 85hz, low E on bass and guitar. Using tune dem for speaker positioning, I was surprised how easy it was considering the room, but I quickly found that I had used acoustic guitar tracks that didn't excite the problem frequencies.

Low volumes for background music weren't an issue, but things quickly went astray when the volume got turned up. At this stage I was running a Renew DS directly into ATC 100ASL's. I borrowed an Akurate Kontrol but that only improved musicality at low volume levels, the 'room' issue still remained at higher volumes.

So, onto room correction. Not something I had ever been keen on, but I started doing a bit more reading on the subject. The areas of concern for me were that most companies doing this sort of stuff, are aiming for the 'flat line' at the listening position, and the phase/time alignment issue that they seem to use to achieve their goal.
Then I stumbled across Lyngdorf. Read all the tech blurb, avoided the above issues, but still being sceptical I had to get a demo. What's the best way to demo a digital pre amp with room correction? By using a turntable. The dealer played a track, then played the same track but with the tracking weight moved up slightly. Sold, with a money back guarantee if I wasn't happy with it in my room.

I promised the minister of finance that I wouldn't spend any more on hi fi until the house was finished. So a quick email to a Linn engineer to check on digital outputs of various DS's confirmed that the data was exactly the same in all, and that the only difference was in jitter levels, which (depending on the clocking abilities of the DAC) should have little if any difference.

Sold the Renew and got a Sneaky which feeds the Lyngdorf with a 192khz signal. This works better than letting the Lyngdorf do the upsampling as Linn have Davaar's 'added headroom' feature incorporated into the fixed 192khz output.

How does it work? Amazingly well. You still have to do system set up properly, as sloppy installations won't be overcome by processing.
If I had anything like a standard room, I would have stuck with Renew/ AK/ ATC. But in MY ROOM, the Sneaky/Lyndorf/ATC easily outperforms (using tune dem) the first system.

The acoustic performance of rooms gets a lot of forum time elsewhere, but I believe most can be overcome with tune dem for set up purposes. For extreme rooms I wouldn't hesitate to recommend the Lyngdorf DPA-1, or if you already have a pre power combo you can use the RP1 processor between them.

Now all I have to do is sell the 3mt pair of Linn silvers and buy (or swap) for a 6mt pair. Ooops, might have to slip that in under the minister's radar.

Paul

Music Lover · Post by **Music Lover** » 2012-02-20 10:12

Hi and welcome!
Can you please explain more about the use of Lyndorf.

I understand that you feed it with a 196k signal from your Sneaky, but then?
Are you playing test signals with the Sneaky and by having a mic connected to Lyndorf adjusting the Lyndorf settings?

Or are you adjusting it just usingTune Dem?

The thing that attracted me to this forum is the fact that you can talk about differences you 'can' hear without being ridiculed by someone because of the "that's impossible" attitude that some have.

Hear you!
This forum is really GREAT.

marmite · Post by **marmite** » 2012-02-21 07:05

Hi Music Lover

The Lyngdorf set up is done via the supplied microphone (and stand) at the start. The Mic is first placed at the listening position, then press enter on the Lyngdorf and it runs through test tones. Then move the mic (minimum 500mm from the first position) and repeat the process. After 4 measurements the Lyngdorf had 90% 'room Knowledge' which is bare minimum. After 8 measurements it was at 99%. I took a further 7 just because I'm me. Once it has enough knowledge, the Lyngdorf processes the measurements (relative to the first) so it can work out what adjustments it needs to make. It's also like any other hi fi in that it requires a burn in period. The first week was the usual rollercoaster of good and bad sound wise. At times very unmusical. Then I went through the whole set up process again, and tidied up cabling, moved wall sockets to suit mains lead length, and made sure everything was level. At this point I discovered the the front left foot of the Sneaky is about 0.5mm higher than the rest. Still deciding whether to return it or live with it.

There are six extra voicing curves that can be chosen on the Lyngdorf, but I use it on neutral. You can also choose from various pre loaded listening positions but I use it in the 'Focus' position (listening chair).

Despite Lyngdorf's different approach to room correction, I was still sceptical that it would end up sounding too processed. But I have to admit to being really surprised by it's subtlety. I originally had the speakers firing straight ahead, but it wasn't until I toed in the speakers (inside edge 5mm back) that everything snapped into focus. Tune dem still rules. Lyngdorf as a company believe that the customer has chosen speakers because they like them, so their aim is not to neutralize every piece of equipment, just take the room out of the equation.

Musically, I'm in that smug mode where all is right with the world. Bass is fuller sounding than a Linn pre amp, but never gets in the way. If anything there is more information than with the Renew, and the ability to follow what's going on in the back of mixes is fantastic, but that's not really fair on the Renew as the room was the issue, not the DS.

I would say it's better than the (original) AK that I used to own, but as I said in the first post I think Renew/AK 1/ATC in a decent room would come out on top, but I guess the the whole point of the Lyngdorf is getting consistency in bad rooms.

At the moment I'm using some xlr mic cables that I got from the local music shop until I sell or swap my silvers for longer ones. I had thought about trying some Mogami balanced cable until I can fund some silvers, has anyone compared the two?

Cheers
Paul

rowlandhills · Post by **rowlandhills** » 2012-02-21 09:22

marmite wrote: At the moment I'm using some xlr mic cables that I got from the local music shop until I sell or swap my silvers for longer ones. I had thought about trying some Mogami balanced cable until I can fund some silvers, has anyone compared the two?

Might be worth a read of this thread:

http://forums.linn.co.uk/bb/showthread. ... 379&page=3

marmite · Post by **marmite** » 2012-02-21 09:35

rowlandhills wrote:
marmite wrote: At the moment I'm using some xlr mic cables that I got from the local music shop until I sell or swap my silvers for longer ones. I had thought about trying some Mogami balanced cable until I can fund some silvers, has anyone compared the two?
Might be worth a read of this thread:

http://forums.linn.co.uk/bb/showthread. ... 379&page=3

Thanks Rowland,

I've had decent advice from both Briain and Salty in the past, so the answer would seem to be listen for myself. Probably just clutching at (cheaper) straws.
I was really happy with the difference the silvers made when I first got them (the system was in another room then) so I guess I'm just kicking myself for being short sighted and assuming I would be in a dedicated room and 3mts would be long enough. Cable depreciation is harder to swallow when I'm probably going to end up buying more of the same.

How are the speaker plans coming along rowland?

Paul