Sopper “new journey”

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Re: Sopper “new journey”

Post by lejonklou »

Very cool that you went all in and created a company!

Interestingly, solid core silver and air insulation is what I started with on my first cable project, decades ago. As my mother is a silversmith, I had access to fine silver and could make the strands in any thickness. The sound was spectacular, but musically it was an exaggerated mess. You seem to have solved that? If that’s the case, I’m impressed!

I’d be very happy to try them, but some clips would be a good start.
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Re: Sopper “new journey”

Post by Sopper »

beck wrote: 2024-06-12 07:21 This is a fantastic story. I am glad on your behalf. What I recognize from my own system is when you say that everything makes a difference. You can hear every little change.
I am sure that the many open minded members of this forum will be interested in your findings. I will for one!
The best way here to show the difference would be a before and after clip, but trying out your cables could also be a way to go.

Best of luck with your cables!
Thanks for the heads up
Spannko wrote: 2024-06-12 13:28 Sopper, I know that you’ve stated in the past that video clips are an excellent way of communicating how one component compares against another, particularly from a musical perspective. So, you know what we want next, don’t you!
Yeah, I know…
But I haven’t been able to capture how it sounds in my room (yet)
So this ain’t gonna happen; I don’t want to take the risk that people dislike my cables by listening to a clip
lejonklou wrote: 2024-06-12 14:30 Very cool that you went all in and created a company!

Interestingly, solid core silver and air insulation is what I started with on my first cable project, decades ago. As my mother is a silversmith, I had access to fine silver and could make the strands in any thickness. The sound was spectacular, but musically it was an exaggerated mess. You seem to have solved that? If that’s the case, I’m impressed!

I’d be very happy to try them, but some clips would be a good start.
That’s my experience too Fredrik
That’s why I use Silver filled copper for my system > still musical but with benefit of silver
Far superior to silver plated copper which sounds harsh

I will send you a set RCA to test, once I have time to make some again
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Re: Sopper “new journey”

Post by Spannko »

I don’t think I’ve heard of copper/silver mixture rather than silver plated copper before, although I must admit it sounds very interesting. What are you charging for the phono pair, and do you offer a money back guarantee after a trial period?
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Re: Sopper “new journey”

Post by Sopper »

Spannko wrote: 2024-06-12 17:56 I don’t think I’ve heard of copper/silver mixture rather than silver plated copper before, although I must admit it sounds very interesting. What are you charging for the phono pair, and do you offer a money back guarantee after a trial period?
I’ll send you a PM
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Re: Sopper “new journey”

Post by ThomasOK »

That definitely is an interesting journey. I also have not heard of silver filled copper and am glad to hear it is not the same as silver plated copper, which I have never found convincing. Good luck with your venture. I am interested in what Fredrik thinks. An alternative to Linn cables would certainly be nice.
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Re: Sopper “new journey”

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Sopper wrote: 2024-06-12 17:13 Yeah, I know…
But I haven’t been able to capture how it sounds in my room (yet)
So this ain’t gonna happen; I don’t want to take the risk that people dislike my cables by listening to a clip
You will never be able to capture that. The purpose of the clips is to compare A with B (for instance a Linn Black or Silver interconnect with your interconnect).

The clips remove all the “Wow!” you feel in the room and left are the musical fundamentals. If they’re not improved, you’ve likely fallen into a trap. It’s a very useful tool.

If you don’t want to share the clips, you can still use them to evaluate your own progress.
New version better in the room? Check!
New version better in the (pretty lousy sounding) clips as well?
I will send you a set RCA to test, once I have time to make some again
Very much looking forward to those!
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Re: Sopper “new journey”

Post by Sopper »

lejonklou wrote: 2024-06-12 21:59 You will never be able to capture that. The purpose of the clips is to compare A with B (for instance a Linn Black or Silver interconnect with your interconnect).

The clips remove all the “Wow!” you feel in the room and left are the musical fundamentals. If they’re not improved, you’ve likely fallen into a trap. It’s a very useful tool.

If you don’t want to share the clips, you can still use them to evaluate your own progress.
New version better in the room? Check!
New version better in the (pretty lousy sounding) clips as well?
Yes I know this
But I changed about everything, so don’t see any opportunity to A/B
Going back to how it was originally, I need to replace power distribution block, 5 stock power cords, 2 sets RCA, speaker cables and remove all feet 😊
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Re: Sopper “new journey”

Post by Mitmu »

Great story, and happy that I am a also a small part of it as of one of those guys who changed all in 'blind faith'.. ;)

Can only confirm all Sopper is mentioning, the Siltech copy cables were a enormous eye opener and has elevated everything in my system :)
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Re: Sopper “new journey”

Post by Tendaberry »

Sopper wrote: 2024-06-13 06:23 But I changed about everything, so don’t see any opportunity to A/B
Going back to how it was originally, I need to replace power distribution block, 5 stock power cords, 2 sets RCA, speaker cables and remove all feet 😊
Just make two clips comparing a Linn Black/Silver with your new RCA cable between Källa and Sagatun...
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Re: Sopper “new journey”

Post by lejonklou »

Tendaberry wrote: 2024-06-13 10:03
Sopper wrote: 2024-06-13 06:23 But I changed about everything, so don’t see any opportunity to A/B
Going back to how it was originally, I need to replace power distribution block, 5 stock power cords, 2 sets RCA, speaker cables and remove all feet 😊
Just make two clips comparing a Linn Black/Silver with your new RCA cable between Källa and Sagatun...
Yes, I was thinking the same. No need to go back all the way, just make one exchange in the current setup. From Källa to Sagatun Mono will give the largest difference.
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Re: Sopper “new journey”

Post by matthias »

Tendaberry wrote: 2024-06-13 10:03 Just make two clips comparing a Linn Black/Silver with your new RCA cable between Källa and Sagatun...
+1
Another vote for this comparison, would prefer vs Linn Silver :-)
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Re: Sopper “new journey”

Post by Spannko »

I think you need to post a video Sopper, otherwise you’ll have a riot on your hands!
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Re: Sopper “new journey”

Post by markiteight »

Spannko wrote: 2024-06-14 00:19 I think you need to post a video Sopper, otherwise you’ll have a riot on your hands!
HAHA...Tune Demmers unite! Grab your torches!

Image
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Re: Sopper “new journey”

Post by Sopper »

I will not make/post clips like you all want/suggested

The only fair comparison is: Stock power cords, ohlson distribution block, Linn silver and K400 VS all my cables and re-wired power distribution; It’s the sum of the chain that makes the total picture.

If I only change the RCA between KÄLLA and Sagatun in my current set up, it is hardly noticeable
But the more I change to stock, the bigger the gap.

For the record: suggested cables we all use is still very musical, until you get used to musical with more depth, stage, placing, soundstage beyond speaker (when it’s in the record) and the feeling the singer is in front of you and singing for you in live recordings.

“Too much robe” (Roger Waters) > the horse and wagon > where does it start and where does it end?
“The bridge of tears (Clannad) > where do you hear the guitar on the right?
Just some examples of recordings that always have sounded good here, but are now amazing.

The judge is your own ears

Just have a little patience and wait for feedback and experiences from people who have actually heard and tested my cables.

Marco has a full set TAC (Trivium Audio Cables) RCA’s, Power Cords and Speaker Cables
I will send a set RCA to Fredrik soon
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Re: Sopper “new journey”

Post by lejonklou »

Sopper, as I don’t really care about depth, stage, placing and soundstage, but am 100% focused on understanding the musical message, will your cables still work for me?

And is it enough for me to try only one pair of interconnects? Or do I need to replace every cable in the system with yours?

Don’t get me wrong, I am longing to give it a listen! I’m just a little confused by your comment about the sum of the chain. In my experience, a more musical cable is a more musical cable, almost entirely independent of the rest of the system. Especially when it’s used at the source.
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Re: Sopper “new journey”

Post by Sopper »

lejonklou wrote: 2024-06-14 14:22 Sopper, as I don’t really care about depth, stage, placing and soundstage, but am 100% focused on understanding the musical message, will your cables still work for me?
That is a weird statement Fredrik…
The cables don’t bring depth, stage, placing and soundstage; they are not magical
If it is in the recording, your devices will bring it to us to hear; my cables get out of this way, unlike many other cables.
lejonklou wrote: 2024-06-14 14:22 And is it enough for me to try only one pair of interconnects? Or do I need to replace every cable in the system with yours?
A pair of interconnect will show it’s strength
The full line up will strengthen the effect; that means > less bottlenecks in the chain
lejonklou wrote: 2024-06-14 14:22 Don’t get me wrong, I am longing to give it a listen! I’m just a little confused by your comment about the sum of the chain. In my experience, a more musical cable is a more musical cable, almost entirely independent of the rest of the system. Especially when it’s used at the source.
I disagree with you here
There is no musical cable…
Musical cables are cables that get out of the way in the chain (read: are not the bottleneck and worst link in the chain)
Linn Silver and K400 do just that, but not as much as I want and experience now with different cables.

There are musical recordings and musical devices that reproduce these recordings.
That’s why I have the whole Lejonklou line up > your design and execution are the most musical devices I have ever heard.

If there is depth in the recording; I want to hear it/experience it
If the cymbals are placed 2 meter behind and at an angle of 40 degrees behind the singer; I want to hear that/experience it
If the artist wants me to experience a horse and wagon coming from left and going to right over a 10 meter trail, I want to experience that

You devices let me experience that and that is an incredible achievement
But with the suggested “musical” stock power cords, Linn Silvers and K400, I am missing those things that are on the recording. I didn’t know that, so it didn’t bother me.
But now I have experienced how recordings thru you devices into Grahams can sound, there is no way back ever again.
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Re: Sopper “new journey”

Post by beck »

I am sure you are onto something special Sopper. Time will tell us when we get to know your cables better.
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Re: Sopper “new journey”

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Sopper wrote: 2024-06-14 18:59
lejonklou wrote: 2024-06-14 14:22 Sopper, as I don’t really care about depth, stage, placing and soundstage, but am 100% focused on understanding the musical message, will your cables still work for me?
That is a weird statement Fredrik…
The cables don’t bring depth, stage, placing and soundstage; they are not magical
If it is in the recording, your devices will bring it to us to hear; my cables get out of this way, unlike many other cables.
lejonklou wrote: 2024-06-14 14:22 And is it enough for me to try only one pair of interconnects? Or do I need to replace every cable in the system with yours?
A pair of interconnect will show it’s strength
The full line up will strengthen the effect; that means > less bottlenecks in the chain
lejonklou wrote: 2024-06-14 14:22 Don’t get me wrong, I am longing to give it a listen! I’m just a little confused by your comment about the sum of the chain. In my experience, a more musical cable is a more musical cable, almost entirely independent of the rest of the system. Especially when it’s used at the source.
I disagree with you here
There is no musical cable…
Musical cables are cables that get out of the way in the chain (read: are not the bottleneck and worst link in the chain)
Linn Silver and K400 do just that, but not as much as I want and experience now with different cables.

There are musical recordings and musical devices that reproduce these recordings.
That’s why I have the whole Lejonklou line up > your design and execution are the most musical devices I have ever heard.

If there is depth in the recording; I want to hear it/experience it
If the cymbals are placed 2 meter behind and at an angle of 40 degrees behind the singer; I want to hear that/experience it
If the artist wants me to experience a horse and wagon coming from left and going to right over a 10 meter trail, I want to experience that

You devices let me experience that and that is an incredible achievement
But with the suggested “musical” stock power cords, Linn Silvers and K400, I am missing those things that are on the recording. I didn’t know that, so it didn’t bother me.
But now I have experienced how recordings thru you devices into Grahams can sound, there is no way back ever again.
While your cables sound interesting and it would certainly be wonderful to take a step further toward the music, I find several of your comments confusing and even contradictory. You say "The cables don’t bring depth, stage, placing and soundstage" yet that is what you highlighted in your comments about them.

Then you go on to say that cables aren't musical - they are to "get out of the way in the chain". But right after you praise the musical quality of Lejonklou electronics and Graham speakers. If cables aren't musical then the only thing that is is the original music. Everything else in the chain from the original tapes, to the streaming service or records, to the turntable setup or streamer, to all the electronics and speakers need to get out of the way of the music. As it was put in the 60s the electronics should be "a straight wire with gain" (of course this was before we were aware how much difference straight wire can make!). So by your definition of cables not being musical, no equipment is musical.

Finally you tell us that it is not worth hearing clips of just an interconnect swap, you would have to change the whole loom. But here you say "A pair of interconnect will show it’s strength". Once again I find that contradictory.

Now most of that is probably semantics but I do value consistency. What most of us can agree on is that the Lejonklou electronics bring us closer to the music than any others (and uniquely that applies to all his electronics). We can also agree that if your cables do bring us closer to the music than Linn Silver, K248 and Volex J power cables (for the US) then they will be a lovely step forward. I am hoping for the best and look forward to Fredrik's findings.
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Re: Sopper “new journey”

Post by Sopper »

It’s pretty hard to explain in writing what I experience at home, especially in English.
So good job on catching me struggle to explain, Thomas.

Frankly I’m already regretting bringing this up to this forum.
You all stay with your beloved cables and I will use mine.

It took me a very long time to have the courage to post this experience
I wanted to share it with people who, just as me, want the best experience in music reproduction at home.
That’s why we came to Lejonklou in the first place.
But most of you are somehow stuck with this magical word “musical” and it seems that a different opinion on what musical is and how we experience it, should be critiqued to hell.

All I am saying is that “I” enjoy the music much much more with different cables then the suggested reference.
It may not be something for you and that’s totally ok.

I’ll ask a moderator to close this thread. Have talked enough about it and it’s dragging and I don’t like that.
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Re: Sopper “new journey”

Post by Spannko »

Sopper wrote: 2024-06-15 21:42 But most of you are somehow stuck with this magical word “musical” and it seems that a different opinion on what musical is and how we experience it, should be critiqued to hell.
On the contrary, Sopper. Google “musical definition” and you’ll get:

Musical: 1. relating to music. 2. having a pleasant sound; melodious or tuneful.

So I wouldn’t say that there’s anything magical about the word, it’s pretty straightforward. If you’ve found a formula which enhances a sounds pleasantness without making it less melodious or tuneful, then you’re on to a winner, and is something, I’m sure, we’d all like to hear!
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Re: Sopper “new journey”

Post by Sopper »

Spannko wrote: 2024-06-16 03:04
enhances a sounds pleasantness without making it less melodious or tuneful, then you’re on to a winner, and is something, I’m sure, we’d all like to hear!
Thanks Steve, bingo!!
What I couldn’t explain in words, you just did
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Re: Sopper “new journey”

Post by Spannko »

You’re welcome. One of the best things about this forum is a willingness to share our ideas with a view to expand our knowledge of what makes great systems more entertaining. As you know, this is generally achieved by sharing videos.
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Re: Sopper “new journey”

Post by Mitmu »

lejonklou wrote: 2024-06-14 14:22 Sopper, as I don’t really care about depth, stage, placing and soundstage, but am 100% focused on understanding the musical message, will your cables still work for me?

And is it enough for me to try only one pair of interconnects? Or do I need to replace every cable in the system with yours?

Don’t get me wrong, I am longing to give it a listen! I’m just a little confused by your comment about the sum of the chain. In my experience, a more musical cable is a more musical cable, almost entirely independent of the rest of the system. Especially when it’s used at the source.
Frederik, I fully understand what you say, but as I have experienced myself I'll try to explain the best way I can in my own experience with the cables of Sopper.

When I had a Linn ADSM/3 Katalyst and my Tundra 2.5 connected with Linn silvers and K400 I could not be happier, awesome sound, I could not understand how I could improve without splashing some serious cash.... Then came a 'old' Kikkin with the Kalla, awesome again, musical engagement went through the roof (cables were unchanged), but allready the Kikkin connected to the Linn was a big eye opener, also an unexpected one. So with the addition of the SK and Kalla I was a happy camper again, so much fun to listen to, since I did not know any better....

Then came the Sopper's cables and the feeling I had with the addition of a Kikkin and Kalla smashing the SQ of my Linn to pieces, happened again, again totally unexpected but everything your equipment does, like sopper is mentioning, was just elevated to a new level, so these smashed the Linn's, at least for me they did..
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Re: Sopper “new journey”

Post by lejonklou »

Thanks Mitmu!

Can’t wait to give them a listen!
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Re: Sopper “new journey”

Post by Sopper »

lejonklou wrote: 2024-06-17 15:31 Thanks Mitmu!

Can’t wait to give them a listen!
Hi Fredrik,

As I made a discovery last week with new RCA connectors, that elevated both the SFC and Silver interlinks, it will take some time to send some cables over to you.
Waiting for new stock and final evaluation of this new configuration; which takes some time > there is unfortunately a long burn in period needed for my cables.

I will keep you updated
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