Hermanns System

[El Mero Mero]

That’s a really cool place you have! Has it always been used as living quarters or it converted from something else? Any chance of getting a picture pointing towards the listening area?

[Charlie1]

Wow, amazing. Thanks for sharing. All those Mana supports make Briks look small.

The Grahams are unusual looking too.

[El Mero Mero]

Only listened to the "Take Five" clip. I easily preferred the G2 clip. So much more expression, feeling and suspense in it. It made me curious of which the next note would be and how it would be played.

[lejonklou]

One question about the Isobarik vs Graham LS 5/5 comparison:

I assume the stands below Isobarik are designed specifically for them. Were they made by Mana?

I also assume those stands don't fit LS 5/5. So they were placed directly on one of the big Mana tables (perhaps there was something below each corner of the cabinet). Doesn't this give the 5/5 a serious disadvantage in the comparison? I would imagine that the lack of a proper stand seriously limits the performance of the speaker, as that has been the case with all other speakers that I've evaluated, floorstanders included.

Unfortunately I don't have any solution to present. Designing a good sounding speaker stand requires a lot of work!

[Tendaberry]

Looking at the pictures, I cannot keep myself from asking, why the Briks are placed so high up? The total height of the stand seems higher than the speaker itself (76 cm). The original stands are around 33 cm, which is supposed to bring the tweeter to the ear level.
Graham also specifies, that the tweeter should be at ear level, thus requiring a stand that's about 49-50 cm. I think they were a good bit higher, when you tested them?

[Spannko]

I’m wondering if the rule ‘tweeters at ear height’ is as useful as all the other audiophile rules, such as the ‘equilateral triangle’, ‘ 1:15 isosceles triangle’, ‘38% rule’, ‘golden ratio’, etc, etc? My guess, based on my experience of building speakers with bass and treble units placed in all manner of unconventional positions, is that the optimal speaker position is very much influenced by the speaker topology /room interaction and how it relates to the combinations ability to reproduce music.

[lejonklou]

I’m wondering if the rule ‘tweeters at ear height’ is as useful as all the other audiophile rules, such as the ‘equilateral triangle’, ‘ 1:15 isosceles triangle’, ‘38% rule’, ‘golden ratio’, etc, etc? My guess, based on my experience of building speakers with bass and treble units placed in all manner of unconventional positions, is that the optimal speaker position is very much influenced by the speaker topology /room interaction and how it relates to the combinations ability to reproduce music.

In my opinion, yes.

Tweeters at ear height is usually motivated in technical terms with the dispersion pattern of the tweeter, with off-axis nearly always being less flat in its frequency response. Moving yourself away from the on-axis position usually doesn't have much of an effect on musicality, though.

In audiophile terms, tweeters at ear height is usually motivated with where the perceived soundstage is most convincing. Although a realistic soundstage can be awarding to experience, it has little to do with musicality.

Much more important to musicality is in my opinion the position of the voice coil of the bass unit relative to the room boundaries.

[Spannko]

I actually agree with everything you’ve said here Fredrik. However, there’s something we’ve not addressed, and that’s the fact that tweeters are usually fixed in position and putting the tweeter at ear height may not allow the bass unit to be optimally positioned. This is what I was thinking but didn’t explain myself very well.

One aspect of tweeter positioning, when the tweeter is positioned close to a wall, is its orientation relative to the wall. I have a suspicion that the tweeter/loudspeaker is more musical when aligned parallel with the wall, possibly due to a more coherent half sphere radiation pattern. I don’t think this applies to speakers positioned into the room though.

[tokenbrit]

I did wonder about the height of the 5/5s, but saw that the listening position is raised on a dais, and Hermann did admit that “the Grahams weren't optimally set up”… I know I’d be reluctant to mess with the meticulously installed stack of mana stands unless the Grahams showed promise over the ‘briks. They sounded a little disappointing in the comparison clips, which was unexpected, unless the setup & room so strongly favor the Linns.

[Hermann]

Thanks all for the comments.

After a long time of consideration and a few requests for pictures, I'm now posting it.

Hermann,
I like this old-school Mana set-up, it must sound terrific!

Well yes, as incredible as it seems, it works great.

Fascinating pictures, Hermann!

Can’t say that I understand how eight levels of Mana can bring an improvement when the height above floor becomes increasingly less optimal. Sadly I have never had the pleasure of listening to a system on Mana. Maybe one day!

Thanks Fredrik
In fact, each level improves musicality and that is the concept behind it. Each level is individually adjusted and set to a clean tone. A worthwhile effort even if conversions take time. The disadvantage of such a stack is certainly the sensitivity to mechanical movement, such as that which occurs when plugging and unplugging RCA plugs. DIN doesn't know this problem.
Our door is open for a visit Fredrik, we look forward to seeing.

That’s a really cool place you have! Has it always been used as living quarters or it converted from something else? Any chance of getting a picture pointing towards the listening area?

Thanks El Mero Mero
It's a converted factory from 1963. The first picture shows two blue T-beams. These are supports for a crane, which fortunately was preserved.

In terms of listening area, at times the chair gets turned around when I want to fully immerse myself into music. On the podium to the right of the view of the picture is the actual seating area, which is mainly used for listening. For me, listening to the briks in the sweet spot just means not being distracted by anything else. A good 2 meters further back on the sofa it doesn't sound any different. The music can also be enjoyed there.

One question about the Isobarik vs Graham LS 5/5 comparison:

I assume the stands below Isobarik are designed specifically for them. Were they made by Mana?

I also assume those stands don't fit LS 5/5. So they were placed directly on one of the big Mana tables (perhaps there was something below each corner of the cabinet). Doesn't this give the 5/5 a serious disadvantage in the comparison? I would imagine that the lack of a proper stand seriously limits the performance of the speaker, as that has been the case with all other speakers that I've evaluated, floorstanders included.

Unfortunately I don't have any solution to present. Designing a good sounding speaker stand requires a lot of work!

The stands are made specifically for the briks and are also made by Mana.

As I wrote, the Grahams were not positioned optimally and their original stands were, in my opinion, unusable. The Grahams may create more space if the distance to the wall is greater. But I didn't want to get involved in the experiment because the effort was too much. According to the manufacturer, I had placed approx. 2x2cm cork plates under the four corners, which also benefited the speakers.

With the original stand they were about 60cm away from the wall, I wasn't happy if I ignore the first two days of amazement. Once the changed portrayal was internalized, too many questions arose that never came up with the briks.

On the one hand, the height of the speaker doesn't play a musical role IMHO and on the other hand, I already had it 2 levels higher and yet the kick drum was at the bottom between the speakers. I have never noticed a negative effect of placing the briks high (in moderation, of course).

[lejonklou]

Thank you Hermann!

Your system is really inspiring and provides plenty of food for thought!

[ive]

https://www.hifianswers.com/2022/12/man ... rd-popeck/

[matthias]

https://www.hifianswers.com/2022/12/man ... rd-popeck/

Thanks for sharing :-)

[Charlie1]

I like him. Enjoyed that. Tx for sharing.

[Hermann]

Since the link exists in my thread, I want to contribute something to it. At first I asked the poster to remove the link because I didn't want to be associated with any connections to Mana. Ok, that didn't happen.

His statements are known to me through several personal visits and the use of Mana were raised to dogma in his forum at the time. Many statements are understandable as long as they cover the musical area.

We had a business relationship that abruptly ended in financial loss for me.

At the time 18 soundstages supported my LP12 and it completely confused some dealers and listeners. When a nice user from England (now runs a large audio forum) visited us, he said it was the best system he had ever heard, even though he was familiar with JWs and someone else's system of the same league. Overall, the mana levels were higher than they are currently. But thanks to Fredrik's products, this is no longer necessary, as significantly better musicality is achieved despite fewer levels.

That means there isn't just one path that leads to Rome.