Hermanns System

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David Neel
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Re: Hermanns System

Post by David Neel »

lejonklou wrote: 2021-12-02 19:19 Nonsense. I have a different setup than the recommended at my lab and it sounds better than any streamer I've heard there.
When I listened to Källa, my network was seriously unoptimised. It still beat my LP12 and a KDS/2. And I wanted one on musical grounds, which was not my reaction when I heard Organik DSM.

It's just a bonus that I've now optimised my network before it arrives.
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Re: Hermanns System

Post by macrotech2 »

Nonsense +1 from me.

I do not have the recommended setup either but Källa is far superior to my previous DAC which itself easily bettered a KDS/3.

Other’s comments (including mine) can only ever be a guide. Always listen for yourself.
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Re: Hermanns System

Post by matthias »

David Neel wrote: 2021-12-02 19:37 When I listened to Källa, my network was seriously unoptimised. It still beat my LP12 and a KDS/2. And I wanted one on musical grounds, which was not my reaction when I heard Organik DSM.
It's just a bonus that I've now optimised my network before it arrives.
OK,
but following the discussion here I got the impression Källa was not on top because of the set-up.
Maybe I am wrong.
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Re: Hermanns System

Post by David Neel »

matthias wrote: 2021-12-02 19:43
David Neel wrote: 2021-12-02 19:37 When I listened to Källa, my network was seriously unoptimised. It still beat my LP12 and a KDS/2. And I wanted one on musical grounds, which was not my reaction when I heard Organik DSM.
It's just a bonus that I've now optimised my network before it arrives.
OK,
but following the discussion here I got the impression Källa was not on top because of the set-up.
Maybe I am wrong.
Yes, there were setup issues, which we noted at the time, and it's spurred me into improving the LP12 setup as well as optimising the network. But I have put my money where my mouth is, and hope to have my Källa shortly.
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Re: Hermanns System

Post by matthias »

I think we should go back to Hermanns system, it is his thread.
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Re: Hermanns System

Post by lejonklou »

matthias wrote: 2021-12-02 19:33 Fredrik,
what is your setup at the lab?
It's been configured in three different ways. All of them are very musical and enjoyable.

Currently I'm using the simplest one, because it's very convenient when constantly connecting and disconnecting things. It's an old DWR-116 4G router with a sim card in it. It's connected directly to Källa, without a switch (and adding a GS-108T isn't better). Sounds great!

Adding a TP-LINK TL-WR802N travel router as a WiFi-to-Ethernet bridge in between the router and Källa (the router connects to WR802N with WiFi and WR802N connects to Källa with an ethernet cable) sounds even better. But when frequently connecting and disconnecting things it becomes a hassle.

There isn't any one and only way to configure a network that sounds good. But there are definitely parts and configurations that sound really bad. Therefore some trial and error is needed to obtain good results, unless one can use the recommended setup. Then no trial and error is needed.
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Re: Hermanns System

Post by Spannko »

lejonklou wrote: 2021-12-02 19:30
Spannko wrote: 2021-12-02 18:08 So, in your case, you’re not using a GS108T? Is that correct?

For optimum Källa set up:

A) If a GS108T isn’t being used does the longer than recommended Ethernet cable into the Källa still need to be a bjc cat6a?

B) If a GS108T is being used, does the Ethernet cable from router to GS108T need to be a bjc cat6a?
I do use a GS-108T switch at home because it sounds better that way.

I don't use any Blue Jeans cables because I have old ones that I think are better. If I could buy those cables today, I would supply them with each Källa. But I can't.

I have been testing a bunch of inexpensive ethernet cables that I've bought from various sources. So far I haven't found anything great. Blue Jeans cat 6a is for now the best you can buy.

But then there was that rather expensive one that we heard clips of in here. Which brand was it? It seemed very promising, but I still haven't heard it in real life. And this is the reason I don't state Blue Jeans cat 6a on the recommended setup sketch - I don't think we've found the best cable yet.
Ah, thanks Fredrik. That helps to explain your Källa network recommendations.

I don’t know if this is the cable you’re referring to, but I posted comparisons of the bjc cat6e vs Meicord (approx £80 for 3m) and the Meicord was unanimously preferred. Unfortunately, the Meicord is also no longer available!
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Re: Hermanns System

Post by lejonklou »

Thank you! Meicord was the name.

And now it's gone too? Sad!
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Re: Hermanns System

Post by matthias »

lejonklou wrote: 2021-12-02 20:40 Adding a TP-LINK TL-WR802N travel router as a WiFi-to-Ethernet bridge in between the router and Källa (the router connects to WR802N with WiFi and WR802N connects to Källa with an ethernet cable) sounds even better. But when frequently connecting and disconnecting things it becomes a hassle.
Thanks Fredrik,
I assume this is the single one case you reported sounding superior than a wired ethernet connection. This is encouraging since it is similar to my possible setup.
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Re: Hermanns System

Post by matthias »

lejonklou wrote: 2021-12-02 20:47 Meicord was the name.
And now it's gone too? Sad!
The original Meicord Opal is no more available but the Opal 2 is in development.

https://meicord.de/index.php?id=178&L=3
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Re: Hermanns System

Post by Spannko »

matthias wrote: 2021-12-02 21:16
lejonklou wrote: 2021-12-02 20:47 Meicord was the name.
And now it's gone too? Sad!
The original Meicord Opal is no more available but the Opal 2 is in development.

https://meicord.de/index.php?id=178&L=3
However it’s been “in development” for at least 2 years!
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Re: Hermanns System

Post by matthias »

Spannko wrote: 2021-12-02 22:46 However it’s been “in development” for at least 2 years!
I will phone tomorrow and hopefully get some info.
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Re: Hermanns System

Post by Spannko »

matthias wrote: 2021-12-02 22:49
Spannko wrote: 2021-12-02 22:46 However it’s been “in development” for at least 2 years!
I will phone tomorrow and hopefully get some info.
Good idea!
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Re: Hermanns System

Post by matthias »

matthias wrote: 2021-12-02 22:49 I will phone tomorrow and hopefully get some info.
Just talked with Meicord.
They will launch at about mid 2022 two LAN cables. One is expensive and has isolators, the other one is similar in construction and price to the former Opal cable and IMO more interesting for the community here. I am curious how they will perform according the tune method.
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Re: Hermanns System

Post by Hermann »

I think it is time to make some things clearer. My approach was to replace a two box solution with a single box including web control. Primary source is the NAS. Källa was recommended, Källa is here.

Music is in the foreground and I have expectations of the reproduction. Musicality and presentation are my criteria. Now there are two streamers here. One has the slightly better presentation, the other is ahead in musicality.

Power range, as well as network settings of the Källa are set up according to the recommendation. Test of the network showed, without switch it plays better. Further changes to the network can only be realized with very high effort.

@matthias, a function only send or the like do not offer the WLAN repeater.

If I now follow ThomasOK's argumentation, Källa is not optimally configured, is therefore operated incorrectly. Spotiy might be an option, which the NDS can also handle. Although it is delivered over the same network, their stream is obviously better than self-ripped CDs. But, I'm not in a position to judge that.

Anyway, here are renewed recordings with recommended power configuration.
Källa - NDS - Sagatuns - Tundra stereo

C-1 https://e1.pcloud.link/publink/show?cod ... v0wJpO4Dik

C-2 https://e1.pcloud.link/publink/show?cod ... ab8hy9ciRy
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Re: Hermanns System

Post by Tendaberry »

Hermann wrote: 2021-12-03 11:57 Anyway, here are renewed recordings with recommended power configuration.
Källa - NDS - Sagatuns - Tundra stereo

C-1 https://e1.pcloud.link/publink/show?cod ... v0wJpO4Dik

C-2 https://e1.pcloud.link/publink/show?cod ... ab8hy9ciRy
I'm going with C-1 here.
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Re: Hermanns System

Post by Scooter62 »

Both very good, but I’m going with C-2 for this pairing - while C-1 had more sonic pizzazz, C-2 was its better in musical communication. C-2 by Tune Dem, and that’s the one I’d choose to learn the why's and how's of music both familiar and new.
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Re: Hermanns System

Post by lejonklou »

Hermann wrote: 2021-12-03 11:57 Anyway, here are renewed recordings with recommended power configuration.
Källa - NDS - Sagatuns - Tundra stereo

C-1 https://e1.pcloud.link/publink/show?cod ... v0wJpO4Dik

C-2 https://e1.pcloud.link/publink/show?cod ... ab8hy9ciRy
I found this one difficult.
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Re: Hermanns System

Post by matthias »

lejonklou wrote: 2021-12-04 11:40 I found this one difficult.
Me too
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Re: Hermanns System

Post by tokenbrit »

Only listened on my old Android phone so far so 'take this with a pinch of salt' (curious idiom, come to think of it...)

I'm in the sCooter62 camp - it just felt a little easier listening to C-2, but I struggled to hear differences over the acoustics of the room, hence the pinch of salt, and not trying to be salty or insulting, just that I get a sense of the room imposing itself and minimizing differences between the clips. I'd imagine it's easier in-room than between clips.
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Re: Hermanns System

Post by V.A.MKD »

Hermann wrote: 2021-12-03 11:57 Anyway, here are renewed recordings with recommended power configuration.
Källa - NDS - Sagatuns - Tundra stereo

C-1 https://e1.pcloud.link/publink/show?cod ... v0wJpO4Dik

C-2 https://e1.pcloud.link/publink/show?cod ... ab8hy9ciRy
C-1 For me.

Difficult one for me, 2 reasons. First very close between each other and second new headphones ... not usual one that I use for Tune Method.

However C-1 is more in tune, better rhythm, more dance and much closer to "fever" ... 2 lean to HiFi side ... no "fever" ...
This is how it sound to me, maybe it wrong ...
Music First ...
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Re: Hermanns System

Post by David Neel »

I agree that this is a difficult comparison. I was originally (very) marginally drawn towards C-2, but not at all sure. Then I listened again was quite sure - that I couldn't decide. So I've given it 24 hours and tried again. This time it's C-1. It doesn't seem to do the hifi quite as well, but I'm more interested in listening.
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Re: Hermanns System

Post by Hermann »

Thanks to all of you. Sorry, I had a little down time because of the booster shot.

The solve:
C-1 NDS
C-2 Källa

It is true, the two recordings are hardly distinguishable. Even with my Presonus it's hardly possible and with others not either. Therefore I left it to post further example.

Both streamers benefited enormously from the change in power line order. Musically, the Källa still has the edge here at home. Thus, nothing changes in my assessment. Further changes to the setup location did not yield any new findings.

But I want to put what happened in perspective. The NDS is of course very highly regarded by their fans. Many place it very close to the ND555, Naim's flagship. They say the differences are marginal, and the ND555 is on par with today's technology. After all, we're talking about a streamer that cost almost 10,000 Euros a few years ago, without a power supply (!), which is almost as expensive at today's price (555PS). For years the NDS was Naim's top streamer and was replaced by ND555. Such a device is hard to beat and yet the Källa beat it in Naim's parade discipline. Only slightly, but it did. The musicality.

For me, the topic of streaming is closed for now. Especially since this is my second best source. Thankx Marco for the opportunity to test the Källa.
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Re: Hermanns System

Post by matthias »

Hermann,
so do you stick to your statement on top of page 15 of this thread?
Thanks
Last edited by matthias on 2021-12-07 12:56, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Hermanns System

Post by Spannko »

lejonklou wrote: 2021-12-04 11:40
Hermann wrote: 2021-12-03 11:57 Anyway, here are renewed recordings with recommended power configuration.
Källa - NDS - Sagatuns - Tundra stereo

C-1 https://e1.pcloud.link/publink/show?cod ... v0wJpO4Dik

C-2 https://e1.pcloud.link/publink/show?cod ... ab8hy9ciRy
I found this one difficult.
Me too, which is why I haven’t commented. Personally, I find the track far too processed to make a meaningful musical decision - it’s too easy to prefer the most impressive clip.
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