Hermanns System

[beck]

+1 for the all Mana option.

[matthias]

All on Mana
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1r8wyc6 ... sp=sharing

My favorite as well, I never listened to a more musical LP12 than on a complete Mana set-up.

Matt

[lejonklou]

Hermann,

it might sound a little bit strange but just for fun I would listen to a Giella Pi as well.
Giella Pi is more musical than Giella and Giella is more musical than Sagatun Stereo.
So in this context it might be fun to evaluate the musicality of Giella Pi (if only one input is ok for you).

Matt

Giella ∏ is really good, but it is not Sagatun Monos.

So you have compared them Thomas?

[Hermann]

Thank you for your comments.

Hermann,
So let me get this right; the comparison is Lejonklou Entity and Naim 552 preamp on Fraim racks, then Mana? I much prefer the all Mana; the difference is stunning. Thank you for that.

That's correct Ron.

Yes, Nils Petter Molvær - Khmer, this record was on yesterday afternoon. Fantastic music and very well suited to really heat up the bass of the Isobarik. I also include one by the Paul Motian Trio "Le Voyage" with Charles Brackeen on saxophone. Very highly recommended.

Ah, don't remember my shopping list and the records not played. And often listening to a new one once is not enough for me. To really understand them, they get played two/three times a day.

@matt
Headphones have never been an issue for me as a pure listening pleasure. For videos for soundtracks it fits, but in my opinion something is missing for the enjoyment of my music.

About yesterday afternoon and evening. Still a bit inconsistent, one record sounds really good, the other not so much. Nevertheless, after about 6 hours of playing (despite 24 hours of warm-up), the musical presentation became more consistent.

A small selection of yesterday's records:

Paul Motian Trio "Le Voyage"
Nils Petter Molvær - Khmer
Cream - Disraeli Gears
Boris Blank - Malia
Can - Tago Mago
Blind Faith (The reissue Mastered of Abbey Road Studio is really really good)
Frank Sinatra - No one cares
King Crimson - Iland and In the court of Crimson King (even very good remastered)
John Williams in Vienna with Anne-Sophie Mutter and Acress the Stars (Embossed on the back of the record. Very very good recording!)
Anne Dudley - Plays the Art of Noise
Heilung - Lifa (highly recommended old Nordic music)
Sweet Smoke - Just a Poke
John Grand - Pale green ghoths
Autumn Shuffle - Peder af Ugglas (!)
London Grammer - If you wait
The X - XXX
Felix Laband - Dark day exit
Yuko Mabuchi Trio - Vol 1+2 (45rpm and a really breathing recording, if you can say that)
Rabih Abou Khalil - Between Dusk and Dawn - Blue Camel - Sultans Picnic


This afternoon continues with primarily classical music.

[matthias]

@matt
Headphones have never been an issue for me as a pure listening pleasure. For videos for soundtracks it fits, but in my opinion something is missing for the enjoyment of my music.

Hermann,

I think absolutely the same about HP listening as you and never listen to HP.

Giella Pi is a superb preamp as well with one stereo line input and output.

Matt

[Hermann]

thx matt, I think I am currently on a different path to finding my happiness.

A short update

This morning the NDS streamer has fired the Sagatuns in the truest sense of the word. So much that dear behavior had to stand back. But in turn.

One of my essentials is listening to music when I write, which I do extensively and often. Music underpins my imagination to develop and document stories. Changing vinyl is sometimes not very conducive to this. So I plugged in the NDS and went back to my self-ripped CD collection. What was initially understood as a routine, turned out after about 3 hours to a realization that let me hardly write. The Sagatuns really glowed, so that I played and still play CD after CD.

The Sagatuns obviously made a significant jump today, which just as clearly increased my uncertainty. Still, I won't loop the 552 back in until tomorrow to indulge my habit with the same playlist.

And mind you, the NDS is served via two WLAN routes, not via LAN.

[ThomasOK]

Hermann,

it might sound a little bit strange but just for fun I would listen to a Giella Pi as well.
Giella Pi is more musical than Giella and Giella is more musical than Sagatun Stereo.
So in this context it might be fun to evaluate the musicality of Giella Pi (if only one input is ok for you).

Matt

Giella ∏ is really good, but it is not Sagatun Monos.

So you have compared them Thomas?

Yes I have. Giella ∏ is very good, but Sagatun Monos reveal additional layers of music, texture and timing. However, one of my friends and customers, who has been into headphones from time to time, recently bought a Giella ∏ and a pair of Grado SR125e. He was noticing that he was enjoying his system more through the Grados than through the Sagatun 1.4, Tundra 2.5 and Quads! So last weekend I hooked the phono stage to his Giella ∏ in place of the stereo Sagatun and we listened. That is where it will remain. He had recently decided to use his living room for vinyl playback only and is transferring the Rega Apollo CD player and Fanfare FM tuner to his study along with a small pair of powered speakers he has on order from me. So the Giella ∏ works just fine for the main system (with the slight inconvenience of no remote control) until he upgrades to Sagatun Monos.

[Defender]

Hi Hermann,
seems its a head to head race as we have not got any update ;).

[Hermann]

Hi Defender,
That's one way of putting it...

Was on my list today, but as usual, something came up. Tomorrow examples, because after a week of warm up it's necessary.

Just to say the 552 has really picked up!

A little more patience, please.

[Hermann]

A first comparison...

At first I had recorded via the NDS, but I didn't like it. So from the LP12.

The decision is not as difficult as between Naim Superline (full extension) against the Entity 1.1. After a week, as described the 552 put on, the Sagatuns after 2 days. From the Naim I still expect some improvements over the weeks.

But decide for yourself

Maila (This time two recordings)

1. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ay5xdC ... sp=sharing
1. https://drive.google.com/file/d/14UCHut ... sp=sharing

2. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1emoShI ... sp=sharing
2. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1u6u9kl ... sp=sharing

Labend

1. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VzPck3 ... sp=sharing

2. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1tuRlPF ... sp=sharing

Grand

1. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1HXNk0_ ... sp=sharing

2. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1lJGndY ... sp=sharing

[Tendaberry]

If I am to trust my ears, I would choose no. 2, based on listening to the Malia tracks. She sounds more human on no. 2 and also the synths sound more "analogue".

[beck]

If I am to trust my ears, I would choose no. 2, based on listening to the Malia tracks. She sounds more human on no. 2 and also the synths sound more "analogue".

+1

I have listened to all the tracks.

[David Neel]

I would choose no. 2.

[Charlie1]

I preferred 1 each time but really wasn't a lot in it for me - enjoyed both.

[lejonklou]

A first comparison...

At first I had recorded via the NDS, but I didn't like it. So from the LP12.

The decision is not as difficult as between Naim Superline (full extension) against the Entity 1.1. After a week, as described the 552 put on, the Sagatuns after 2 days. From the Naim I still expect some improvements over the weeks.

But decide for yourself

Maila (This time two recordings)

1. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ay5xdC ... sp=sharing
1. https://drive.google.com/file/d/14UCHut ... sp=sharing

2. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1emoShI ... sp=sharing
2. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1u6u9kl ... sp=sharing

Labend

1. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VzPck3 ... sp=sharing

2. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1tuRlPF ... sp=sharing

Grand

1. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1HXNk0_ ... sp=sharing

2. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1lJGndY ... sp=sharing

There is one element of confusion in the numbering of these clips, Hermann. In Labend, the clip that you call 1 is named 002 and the clip that you call 2 is named 001. Is this correct?

I am assuming that we cast our votes using your names in the post (1 and 2), regardless of the name of the file (000 to 003).

I am leaning towards 1 in all clips.

[Spannko]

I much preferred version 1 of the Malia clips. Unfortunately, Labend and Grand wouldn’t play on my iPad.

[beck]

From memory: I found 1 to be more “impressive” and 2 to be more “down to earth”. Both were enjoyable but I found 2 to be preferable to me.

[Hermann]

Thanks to all the contributors.

Well Fredrik, after recording from the first preamp, the data was saved on the PC before the recordings for the 2nd preamp were started. When moving the data from SD card to PC, they are of course deleted from the card. Therefore, the recorder restarts the numbering at zero again. And the changed sequence when recording from the 2 preamplifier has certainly also confused the designation system.

[Tendaberry]

Now we want to know which is which ;-)

[lejonklou]

From memory: I found 1 to be more “impressive” and 2 to be more “down to earth”. Both were enjoyable but I found 2 to be preferable to me.

That's funny beck, because when I listened yesterday I had the exact opposite impression.

[beck]

From memory: I found 1 to be more “impressive” and 2 to be more “down to earth”. Both were enjoyable but I found 2 to be preferable to me.

That's funny beck, because when I listened yesterday I had the exact opposite impression.

Well, nobody said what we are doing here would be easy! :-)

[Defender]

that was the reason that I gave no opinion - I found positives on both clips - but I was also finding clip 2 more down to earth.

[PetterS]

This was close.
Malia, I'm leaning towards 1 in both clips. Sound is more impressive in 2 but more to the point in 1.
Labend, I prefer 2. It's quite obvious in the middle of the clip where 1 becomes blurred in the middle parts.
Grand, prefer 1. The singer is oddly more out of tune (intonation) in 2.

[Hermann]

Thanks again for your assessment.

Ok, the resolution. 1 is the 552, corresponding to 2 the Sagatuns.

By the way, it's actually the case that the 552 has the edge. Not musically, the Sagatuns can do that just as well. But it is exactly what I based the decision of the Entity 1.1 on. The Entity 1.1 had the more complete presentation in comparison, which I liked more than the Superline. And I currently feel the same way in this comparison, just the other way around. The 552 currently plays better for my taste. And it's not the musicality, that's strikingly identical to the Sagatuns, albeit further to the foreground. In this respect, a big big compliment to Fredrik. The Sagatuns reaches to a preamp about four times more expensive. That's great.

But perhaps it is this behavior of the Sagatuns to "play more in the foreground" that currently makes me prefer the 552. Maybe again a matter of habituation, who knows. I hope to wait a few more days to decide, if Marco allows. Because it could shift quickly, as changes to the wiring are possible. Marco has kindly provided me with another set of obviously new RCA cables. They are a bit stiff, so I'll have to see how I run them.

[Defender]

are you keeping track on the total hours on the Sagatun? if it is only 48hours I think that will not be enough - but you can leave it run 24hours/7 days and giving it signal with a playlist loop from your streamer the power amp can be off or you set the Sagatun on low volume. Is the Mark Levinson Silver cable you have still somewhere in the chain of the Sagatun?