AudioTech Modifications

Charlie1 · Post by **Charlie1** » 2011-02-22 18:39

Just bought an AudioTech table (courtesy of Lejonklou forum :) )

I know Thomas says the Archidee is better and it doesn't weight so much as it doesn't have so many bars. I thought maybe I could get some removed :shock: so it mimicks the Archidee. Any thoughts on this mad scheme (other than 'mad')?

SaltyDog · Post by **SaltyDog** » 2011-02-22 18:59

Filling with helium instead? :roll:

ThomasOK · Post by **ThomasOK** » 2011-02-22 19:53

Charlie1 wrote:Just bought an AudioTech table (courtesy of Lejonklou forum :) )

I know Thomas says the Archidee is better and it doesn't weight so much as it doesn't have so many bars. I thought maybe I could get some removed :shock: so it mimicks the Archidee. Any thoughts on this mad scheme (other than 'mad')?

I would think that might work - as long as you cut out the right bars. :) I would recommend having someone who knows about welding with tubular steel take a look at it as you wouldn't want to damage a weld that has structural importance when you cut off the bars.

And, of course, I accept no liability if the whole thing collapses! :o

Tony Tune-age · Post by **Tony Tune-age** » 2011-02-22 20:18

Sounds like an interesting experiment...keep us updated with the results if you do the cutting 8).

Charlie1 · Post by **Charlie1** » 2011-02-22 20:28

Thanks all. No, it wouldn't be myself that does the work. That would be asking for trouble!

Tony Tune-age · Post by **Tony Tune-age** » 2011-02-22 20:44

Charlie1 wrote:Thanks all. No, it wouldn't be myself that does the work. That would be asking for trouble!

I hear ya...8)

Charlie1 · Post by **Charlie1** » 2011-02-22 22:47

Sounds like I've finally found a table more musical than the Isoblue. Some slight variations, so need to check I'm being thorough, but certainly sounds promising.

I think it looks quite dinky too and highlights the LP12 better: -

Not quite so sure I want to hack it to pieces now :mrgreen:

PS and 'no', the mains cables don't touch any ICs or speaker cables despite how it might look

SaltyDog · Post by **SaltyDog** » 2011-02-22 23:02

Charlie1

Those record boxes you have look like some I have. Just thinking it might be worth trying to twist/stagger them so they breakup the corner's impact on the tune. Kind of 3 different angles, none of the square to the wall. My wife would then have to arrange some pillows on and about them which I would claim as a compromise that she wins. :roll:

Charlie1 · Post by **Charlie1** » 2011-02-22 23:55

Never thought of that - thanks Salty. In our old house I did try 'with' verses 'without'.

Do folks think it is worth my while moving the two racks so they are centred and the AudioTech isn't so close to the left speaker? I know Thomas has this kind of setup (albiet with a third unit to balance out the look), so presume it doesn't make that much negative difference to the LP12.

Also, one for Thomas in particular - did you post once that the Archidee top shelf is better than the AudioTech? Ever found anything better? - I think maybe you also tried a Quadraspire shelf, but my memory could be mixing things up.

anthony · Post by **anthony** » 2011-02-23 07:55

You would regret making any alterations to the table!
Alan spent a long time designing it, not worth changing it.
Try splitting your speaker cable into individual lengths.

Tony Tune-age · Post by **Tony Tune-age** » 2011-02-23 14:54

Charlie1 wrote:Sounds like I've finally found a table more musical than the Isoblue. Some slight variations, so need to check I'm being thorough, but certainly sounds promising.

Nice looking system Charlie1...very nice indeed 8)

Charlie1 · Post by **Charlie1** » 2011-02-23 16:03

anthony wrote:You would regret making any alterations to the table!
Alan spent a long time designing it, not worth changing it.

Thanks anthony and all.

I spoke to Alan Gibb this afternoon. He’s a really nice guy and very helpful. He gave me some setup tips which I should commit to writing now whilst vaguely fresh in my mind:

My room has suspended wooden floor which moves when I stand next to the LP12, so he recommended trying to stand as far back as possible when setting up. I can certainly ensure I’m not standing in line with the floor boards that go under the table. He said to get the spikes through the carpet into the floorboards and then level the frame so as to minimize the rocking between diagonal corners so front left to right back and visa versa.

Unfortunately, my laminated top board is badly punctured each side, but he mentioned the ideal is to ‘just’ puncture through the laminate with the spikes. Getting the board level is very important and to do this as best as possible before tightening 3 of the 4 top spikes. Then place the LP12 on the table and adjust the 4th spike (front one) so that there is no movement of the board with the deck in place – this is really important.

The only downside to the conversation was that he said the new mega bucks Japanese ‘Andante’ table, based upon the AudioTech, ‘trashes’ his one

But still looking forward to mine performing even better thanks to Alan's advice. I said I’d email him the link so, you never know, he might contribute.

If only we could have a more reasonably priced LP12 table capable of bettering the Quadraspire Sunoko-Vent T and Isoblue rack :)

Charlie1 · Post by **Charlie1** » 2011-02-23 16:32

Tony Tune-age wrote:Nice looking system Charlie1...very nice indeed 8)

Thanks Tony! Very kind of you. I should really do as anthony suggested. In fact I'd rather sell the K600 and get some newly terminated K400 at shorter lengths. Was kind of hoping for Fredrik to determine the most musical speaker cable length for K400 as mentioned he 'might' be able to do a long while back, but I suspect he has more important projects on the go.

Tony Tune-age · Post by **Tony Tune-age** » 2011-02-23 17:03

Charlie1 wrote:
Tony Tune-age wrote:Nice looking system Charlie1...very nice indeed 8)
Thanks Tony! Very kind of you. I should really do as anthony suggested. In fact I'd rather sell the K600 and get some newly terminated K400 at shorter lengths. Was kind of hoping for Fredrik to determine the most musical speaker cable length for K400 as mentioned he 'might' be able to do a long while back, but I suspect he has more important projects on the go.

I remember Fredrik's thread regarding cable length and musical performance. No doubt he has lot's of irons in the fire 8) .

I had the Linn K400 speaker cables for bi-amping awhile back. They were 1.5 meters long and very musical indeed. According to my Linn representative at that time, the K400 did perform sonically better than the K600. Perhaps ThomasOK has some information on this topic :?:

ThomasOK · Post by **ThomasOK** » 2011-02-23 20:36

A couple of comments/answers.

I haven't done direct K400/K600 comparisons so I can't comment here. When I had Aktiv Isobariks I ran them with separate amp channels for the bass, as recommended for Keltiks, so I was using two lengths of K400 per speaker. Never did speaker length comparisons and I'm not sure they would have been valid before I started being careful of soldering temperature (using advice from Fredrik). Speaking of Fredrik I know he is indeed up to his eyeballs in electronic experimentation right now so speaker length comparisons are likely to be on a back burner and on very low simmer!

On the AudioTech, I am glad that you are enjoying it. I believe what I said was that the AudioTech shelf was better than the Target. As far as I am aware the shelf or board on the AudioTech and the Archidee are the same (I haven't cut them open to check but they look and feel the same). I tried a solid hardwood (Movingui) and was unhappy with the performance. I think that the board that comes with these tables is likely to be improved by cutting out the center as in the Quadraspire Reference but I haven't finished my listening tests yet so I wouldn't go cutting yours up quite yet. :)

I would recommend a couple slightly different details in the setup procedure for the AudioTech. First off I don't recommend having the shelf level if you have a Urika or Trampolin as the feet compress slightly different amounts due to differing weight on each corner. Instead you want the shelf just enough off level to make the LP12 on top perfectly level. Secondly, once the correct off level position of the shelf has been determined, I recommend adjusting all four spikes with the LP12 off the shelf. The weight of the LP12 can cause the shelf to appear to have more even contact than it does. If the shelf sits solidly on the four spikes without the LP12 then it will have a more even contact when the LP12 is on it IMHO. (This is even more important with Quadraspire wall shelves.) Also you should be able to overcome the problem of the current pits from the spikes by shifting the shelf forward or back a little bit (or possibly side to side if necessary) to let the spikes hit a fresh area of the board. If you do this I would center the LP12 over the spikes rather than centering it over the board.

rowlandhills · Post by **rowlandhills** » 2011-02-23 23:18

There's someone on eBay offering 2x2m of k400 for £40 buy-it-now. If that's terminated, it's a bargain, and I'd be tempted to just buy it and see how it performs...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 500wt_1156[/url]

Charlie1 · Post by **Charlie1** » 2011-02-23 23:23

ThomasOK wrote:On the AudioTech, I am glad that you are enjoying it. I believe what I said was that the AudioTech shelf was better than the Target.

Thanks Thomas, I'm quite proficient with searching the net and forum, but couldn't find that.

ThomasOK wrote:I would recommend a couple slightly different details in the setup procedure for the AudioTech. First off I don't recommend having the shelf level if you have a Urika or Trampolin as the feet compress slightly different amounts due to differing weight on each corner. Instead you want the shelf just enough off level to make the LP12 on top perfectly level. Secondly, once the correct off level position of the shelf has been determined, I recommend adjusting all four spikes with the LP12 off the shelf. The weight of the LP12 can cause the shelf to appear to have more even contact than it does. If the shelf sits solidly on the four spikes without the LP12 then it will have a more even contact when the LP12 is on it IMHO. (This is even more important with Quadraspire wall shelves.) Also you should be able to overcome the problem of the current pits from the spikes by shifting the shelf forward or back a little bit (or possibly side to side if necessary) to let the spikes hit a fresh area of the board. If you do this I would center the LP12 over the spikes rather than centering it over the board.

Thanks again, that's really useful to know and I hadn't thought of that. I will ensure I do that.

There seems to be always something that can easily catch you out and makes fair comparisons painstaking. Even with my Isoblue, the LP12 position on the table 'front to back' makes a subtle difference so is always a factor to optimise prior to making comparisons.

Charlie1 · Post by **Charlie1** » 2011-02-23 23:29

rowlandhills wrote:There's someone on eBay offering 2x2m of k400 for £40 buy-it-now. If that's terminated, it's a bargain, and I'd be tempted to just buy it and see how it performs...

I do like a bargain, as you know, but on this one I think I'll pass. When it comes to speaker cabling I'd want to ensure the soldering work is as musical as possible, so will just use my regular supplier who I can trust to do a great job - optimal termperature/solder brand/timing - all that good stuff. I do appreciate the idea though, so thanks Rolland.

anthony · Post by **anthony** » 2011-02-24 00:10

Charlie1 wrote:
rowlandhills wrote:There's someone on eBay offering 2x2m of k400 for £40 buy-it-now. If that's terminated, it's a bargain, and I'd be tempted to just buy it and see how it performs...
I do like a bargain, as you know, but on this one I think I'll pass. When it comes to speaker cabling I'd want to ensure the soldering work is as musical as possible, so will just use my regular supplier who I can trust to do a great job - optimal termperature/solder brand/timing - all that good stuff. I do appreciate the idea though, so thanks Rolland.

I can confirm k400 sounds better than k600.
Philbo recommends separating each length, so I presume the difference then becomes irrelevant.

Post by **lejonklou** » 2011-02-24 00:14

Anthony, have you evaluated what happens when splitting K400 into separate "K200"s?

If so, what was your impression?

rowlandhills · Post by **rowlandhills** » 2011-02-24 00:15

They just need to get on and launch K200, along with some form of cunning clip arrangement to allow you to create your own version of K400/600/800/1000 as needed! :)

Post by **lejonklou** » 2011-02-24 00:29

Actually, rowlandhills, the first version of K400/600 that I saw and heard, many years ago, was a square K200. That seems to have been the original prototype. I don't understand why it wasn't released.

I discussed the clip solution with a large cable manufacturer around 4 years ago, when I had plans on releasing something along that line. Unfortunately, they said it was difficult to make it work well, due to the properties of the plastic. If too soft and/or using small clips, it would easily split when bent, and if too hard and/or using large clips, it would be difficult to attach them to eachother. They concluded that although it was a good idea, they didn't believe the end product "would live up to my expectations".

ThomasOK · Post by **ThomasOK** » 2011-02-24 00:48

I think it's time for K100 for all of those of us who want to 1/2 wire their speakers. Who needs the Negative, I only want Positive music going to MY speakers! :mrgreen:

Charlie1 · Post by **Charlie1** » 2011-02-26 23:41

Charlie1 wrote:Sounds like I've finally found a table more musical than the Isoblue. Some slight variations, so need to check I'm being thorough, but certainly sounds promising.

This is a bit rubbish, but I think I got it wrong and my first impression was right and the bloody Isoblue is still more musical. I will leave it a couple of weeks and report back, but pretty sure. Just like the TimeTable, the AudioTech sounds much better, much clearer and easier to hear what's going on, isn't affected very much by footfall and looks better. It just doesn't do the music quite as well - close though. Damn!

This is all post setup as per Alan's advice. I took a few hours getting it right and don't feel there is anymore I can do. LP12 on the Isoblue is like fuzzy muddled mess, but there you go. Maybe I should be looking at another Isoblue base and dedicated LP12 rack instead of a super table :(
pants.

anthony · Post by **anthony** » 2011-02-27 05:51

Charlie1 wrote:
Charlie1 wrote:Sounds like I've finally found a table more musical than the Isoblue. Some slight variations, so need to check I'm being thorough, but certainly sounds promising.
This is a bit rubbish, but I think I got it wrong and my first impression was right and the bloody Isoblue is still more musical. I will leave it a couple of weeks and report back, but pretty sure. Just like the TimeTable, the AudioTech sounds much better, much clearer and easier to hear what's going on, isn't affected very much by footfall and looks better. It just doesn't do the music quite as well - close though. Damn!

This is all post setup as per Alan's advice. I took a few hours getting it right and don't feel there is anymore I can do. LP12 on the Isoblue is like fuzzy muddled mess, but there you go. Maybe I should be looking at another Isoblue base and dedicated LP12 rack instead of a super table :(
pants.

I never liked an Audiotech on a suspended floor, with a trampolin.

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