DS firmware - what is the lastest on the most musical one?

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Post by Erik » 2012-09-25 05:09

Thanks for reminding me about 4.1.10.
For me it 's the most musical one.

/Erik

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Post by David Neel » 2012-09-29 21:18

I've just tried 4.1.10, and I can hear why it's recommended. More up-front detail, but not too spotlit.

However, going back to 4.9.2, I prefer it. Just a bit more natural/easy/unforced/musical. I will try 4.9.3/4 at some point, but currently very happy with 4.9.2.

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Post by anthony » 2012-09-29 23:12

David Neel wrote:I've just tried 4.1.10, and I can hear why it's recommended. More up-front detail, but not too spotlit.

However, going back to 4.9.2, I prefer it. Just a bit more natural/easy/unforced/musical. I will try 4.9.3/4 at some point, but currently very happy with 4.9.2.
Yes I am enjoying 4.9.2. Don't feel the need to revert to 4.1.10, as I am listening for much longer than normal, always a good sign.

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Post by minge » 2012-09-30 09:12

anthony wrote:
David Neel wrote:I've just tried 4.1.10, and I can hear why it's recommended. More up-front detail, but not too spotlit.

However, going back to 4.9.2, I prefer it. Just a bit more natural/easy/unforced/musical. I will try 4.9.3/4 at some point, but currently very happy with 4.9.2.
Yes I am enjoying 4.9.2. Don't feel the need to revert to 4.1.10, as I am listening for much longer than normal, always a good sign.
Is 4.1.10 working with kDSM and if so where do i find it

Mike

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Post by David Neel » 2012-09-30 11:21

anthony wrote: Yes I am enjoying 4.9.2. Don't feel the need to revert to 4.1.10, as I am listening for much longer than normal, always a good sign.
That was my initial reaction to 4.9.2 - a lack of fatigue over long listening sessions.

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Post by David Neel » 2012-09-30 11:23

minge wrote: Is 4.1.10 working with kDSM and if so where do i find it

Mike
The Linn list http://products.linn.co.uk/VersionInfo/ ... /Releases/ does not show it - maybe it predates the KDSM?

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Post by David Neel » 2012-10-11 22:46

An interesting evening....

After being very happy with 4.9.2, I've been sampling the more recent betas.

4.9.3 - subject to further listening, a small improvement over 4.9.2 in sound, but retaining the musicality

4.9.4 - not as good

4.9.5 - best sonics yet, musicality not as good as .2 and .3

4.9.6 - haven't got a copy, so can't comment

4.9.7 - better than .5, sonically great

4.9.3 - reverting to this, a small sonic loss and a musical gain

Tentative conclusion is that 4.9.3 is the current standard. Will live with this for the weekend before reverting to 4.9.2 to see if it's still my preference.

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Post by tokenbrit » 2012-10-12 18:10

David Neel wrote:An interesting evening....
Tentative conclusion is that 4.9.3 is the current standard. Will live with this for the weekend before reverting to 4.9.2 to see if it's still my preference.
Based on this, I have reverted to 4.9.3 from 4.9.4, but have yet to give it a listen... (planned for this weekend as time & weather allow)

Had to jump through hoops to do so though as latest versions of Konfig won't allow flashing of DS back to firmware older than 4.9.4 so had to revert Konfig also :/

David, I have 4.9.6 for KlimaxDS if you need/want it? Haven't been able to get a copy of 4.9.5 though... Let me know if you'd like to 'swap'.

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Post by David Neel » 2012-10-12 22:29

tokenbrit,

Thanks for the offer, but I've only got an ADS/1, and the files are different. Otherwise that would have been really helpful.

An update after last night's summary of a long listening session....

I've been back to 4.9.7, and today I feel the differences between it and 4.9.3 are less pronounced - but I still (just) prefer 4.9.3. One difference is that today I've been listening at a higher volume level.

I've just reverted to 4.9.2, and it sounds best of the lot to me (at the moment).

As Sam Goldwyn is reputed to have said - "my indecision is final". Maybe I should stop reflashing and just play music....

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Post by hcl » 2012-10-13 08:47

David Neel wrote:...
I've just reverted to 4.9.2, and it sounds best of the lot to me (at the moment).
Interesting that You (and obviously a couple of others) prefer 4.9.2 over 4.1.10! I have not compared on the ADS/1 so that could be a reason, but there are people having the KDS/1 that prefer 4.9.2 so... It would be interesting if You could elaborate a bit more on the subject and maybe what amps and speakers You use?

To me 4.9.2 produces lots of detail, but is not very organised (musically). Impressive hifi-vise, but musically less satisfying. 4.1.10 on the other hand is much more focused with seemingly less details. The nuances are there, but as the presentation is more coherent the different sounds do not stand out in the same way as with 4.9.2.

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Post by lejonklou » 2012-10-13 13:23

hcl wrote:To me 4.9.2 produces lots of detail, but is not very organised (musically). Impressive hifi-vise, but musically less satisfying. 4.1.10 on the other hand is much more focused with seemingly less details. The nuances are there, but as the presentation is more coherent the different sounds do not stand out in the same way as with 4.9.2.
This reminds me of a demo long ago. A group of violins (unclear how many) were playing a piece. The question was: Which is better? That you can hear every individual violin, perhaps count how many they are, or that the piece they are playing is coming out as one story?

The audiophiles stressed the importance of resolution and to be able to count violins. The music lovers wanted to experience the piece they were playing. And when reproduced with the best system, one could occasionally tell the violins apart, while at other times, they appeared to be a single instrument.

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Post by hcl » 2012-10-13 20:55

lejonklou wrote:
hcl wrote:To me 4.9.2 produces lots of detail, but is not very organised (musically). Impressive hifi-vise, but musically less satisfying. 4.1.10 on the other hand is much more focused with seemingly less details. The nuances are there, but as the presentation is more coherent the different sounds do not stand out in the same way as with 4.9.2.
This reminds me of a demo long ago. A group of violins (unclear how many) were playing a piece. The question was: Which is better? That you can hear every individual violin, perhaps count how many they are, or that the piece they are playing is coming out as one story?

The audiophiles stressed the importance of resolution and to be able to count violins. The music lovers wanted to experience the piece they were playing. And when reproduced with the best system, one could occasionally tell the violins apart, while at other times, they appeared to be a single instrument.
Yes, been experiencing this kind of differences a couple of times while optimising installations. The seemingly higher resolution giving a multitude of details is allmost never actually better musically.

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4.9.6

Post by David Neel » 2012-10-14 17:33

Now I have been sent a copy of 4.9.6 - to my ears the most musical of all the betas I've playing around with. Not only slightly more detail/sonics than 4.9.2, it has the same or maybe more musical coherence. GREAT! I will now stop reflashing for a while and just enjoy the music. The only qualification is that I haven't yet had a really long session to see if it is as fatigue-free as 4.9.2.

hcl, my findings are the opposite of yours with 4.1.10 and 4.9.2, and from your description we listen for the same things - musical coherence not sonic detail. I wonder if the Klimax and Akurate respond differently to firmware updates? Have you tried 4.9.6?

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Re: 4.9.6

Post by stefan » 2012-10-15 13:04

David Neel wrote:............
hcl, my findings are the opposite of yours with 4.1.10 and 4.9.2, and from your description we listen for the same things - musical coherence not sonic detail. I wonder if the Klimax and Akurate respond differently to firmware updates? Have you tried 4.9.6?
I have Akurate (ADS/0/D) and my opinion is the same as HCL, 4.1.10 is the best I've experienced musically. No, I haven't tried anything later than 4.9.2

However, 4.1.10 is old and lacks airplay support. I want that so I went back to 4.5.3 which for me haven't really been bettered by anything except 4.1.10

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Re: 4.9.6

Post by hcl » 2012-10-16 06:40

David Neel wrote: ... Have you tried 4.9.6?
No.

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Post by tokenbrit » 2012-10-16 18:48

hcl wrote:
lejonklou wrote:
hcl wrote:To me 4.9.2 produces lots of detail, but is not very organised (musically). Impressive hifi-vise, but musically less satisfying. 4.1.10 on the other hand is much more focused with seemingly less details. The nuances are there, but as the presentation is more coherent the different sounds do not stand out in the same way as with 4.9.2.
This reminds me of a demo long ago. A group of violins (unclear how many) were playing a piece. The question was: Which is better? That you can hear every individual violin, perhaps count how many they are, or that the piece they are playing is coming out as one story?

The audiophiles stressed the importance of resolution and to be able to count violins. The music lovers wanted to experience the piece they were playing. And when reproduced with the best system, one could occasionally tell the violins apart, while at other times, they appeared to be a single instrument.
Yes, been experiencing this kind of differences a couple of times while optimising installations. The seemingly higher resolution giving a multitude of details is allmost never actually better musically.
Hi hcl, in your experience are the differences you are hearing between versions of Davaar the sort of thing that can be affected by speaker (re)positioning? I don't know if anyone has adjusted their system after reflashing new DS firmware, so just wondering if the differences that people are hearing, and the associated preferences expressed, are system set-up dependant, or more fundamental...

Personally I quite like the 4.9.x firmwares - didn't get on with 4.1.10... I could not tell you that I have an optimised installation and, truth be told, it's almost certainly not optimised, but I wouldn't know if that's why 4.9.x appears to work better in my system than 4.1.10, or if it's for any other reason(s).

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Post by hcl » 2012-10-16 20:13

tokenbrit wrote:Hi hcl, in your experience are the differences you are hearing between versions of Davaar the sort of thing that can be affected by speaker (re)positioning? I don't know if anyone has adjusted their system after reflashing new DS firmware, so just wondering if the differences that people are hearing, and the associated preferences expressed, are system set-up dependant, or more fundamental...

Personally I quite like the 4.9.x firmwares - didn't get on with 4.1.10... I could not tell you that I have an optimised installation and, truth be told, it's almost certainly not optimised, but I wouldn't know if that's why 4.9.x appears to work better in my system than 4.1.10, or if it's for any other reason(s).
That is a good question! I do not think that I could fix the, from my viewpoint, shortcomings of 4.9.2 by repositioning the speakers, even though, maybe one could describe the sound of 4.9.2 as the sound of a somewhat sloppy speaker positioning. I have not tried to so I might just aswell be wrong here. It could ofcourse be that my speakers are optimized for a certain kind of a firmware hence being disadvantageous for other firmwares. On the other hand I have done a number of other changes to the set-up over the years without having to re-position the speakers at all (on the contrary, *). I also use a LP12 which sounds very good with the speakers positioned like they are.

*) During the winter the humidity here varies up and down causing the suspended wooden floor to shrink and expand, pushing the speakers (active 212) (mostly < 1 mm movement) closer to or farther from the wall. To maintain maximum performance from the system I have to reposition the speakers from time to time in order to keep a contant distance between wall and speakers (I measure the speaker positions with about 0.2 mm precision). A 1 mm move is perfectly possible to detect such as that I do not feel the music moves me the way it usually are.

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Post by usjaz » 2012-10-20 17:12

On my Klimax Renew, I have tried 4.7.5, 4.9.6, 4.1.10, 4.7.2, I settled on 4.7.2 for now.

Music are just a lot more together with 4.7.2...

I have not tried 4.9.1, 4.9.2. Can someone send me a copy? Also for 4.9.6, I realize I didn't save a copy of 4.9.6. Would like to test it again vs. 4.9.2 and 4.9.3....

thanks for the help!

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Post by Nicolav » 2012-10-22 00:15

usjaz wrote:On my Klimax Renew, I have tried 4.7.5, 4.9.6, 4.1.10, 4.7.2, I settled on 4.7.2 for now.

Music are just a lot more together with 4.7.2...

I have not tried 4.9.1, 4.9.2. Can someone send me a copy? Also for 4.9.6, I realize I didn't save a copy of 4.9.6. Would like to test it again vs. 4.9.2 and 4.9.3....

thanks for the help!
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Post by usjaz » 2012-10-22 16:32

Thanks Nicolav for 4.9.6!

Still looking for 4.9.2 and 4.9.3 for KlimaxDS...
Nicolav wrote:
usjaz wrote:On my Klimax Renew, I have tried 4.7.5, 4.9.6, 4.1.10, 4.7.2, I settled on 4.7.2 for now.

Music are just a lot more together with 4.7.2...

I have not tried 4.9.1, 4.9.2. Can someone send me a copy? Also for 4.9.6, I realize I didn't save a copy of 4.9.6. Would like to test it again vs. 4.9.2 and 4.9.3....

thanks for the help!
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Post by ThomasOK » 2012-10-23 16:53

usjaz wrote:Thanks Nicolav for 4.9.6!

Still looking for 4.9.2 and 4.9.3 for KlimaxDS...
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Post by ThomasOK » 2012-10-24 18:44

Just thought I'd post a note that 4.9.7 has become the new official release of Davaar.

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Post by usjaz » 2012-10-25 07:06

Thanks ThomasOK for sending me 4.9.2 and 4.9.3. I will try this weekend.
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Post by Manelus » 2012-11-02 12:12

We’ve been trying them all for short comparisons, and long term listening.
KDS/1 (Rest of the system is not Linn).
Two people, two systems (very similar ones), two listening rooms.
Using classic music, comparing voices, strings,… and overall feeling.
We attend live concerts 1 every 2 months on average, so live music is the reference.
After 2 months of messing around, the winner is:
4.1.10
Clean, natural sound, no coloration. Confort in long term listening.
Note: Ferrites were removed long ago. Dedicated power lines (one per component), and Elrod power cables. Before the new electrical installation ferrites had to be in place.

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Post by Nicolav » 2012-11-02 13:23

Manelus wrote:We’ve been trying them all for short comparisons, and long term listening.
KDS/1 (Rest of the system is not Linn).
Two people, two systems (very similar ones), two listening rooms.
Using classic music, comparing voices, strings,… and overall feeling.
We attend live concerts 1 every 2 months on average, so live music is the reference.
After 2 months of messing around, the winner is:
4.1.10
Clean, natural sound, no coloration. Confort in long term listening.
Note: Ferrites were removed long ago. Dedicated power lines (one per component), and Elrod power cables. Before the new electrical installation ferrites had to be in place.
There are some week living with 4.1.10 and also my conclusion that this is the most musical firmware. Although 4.3.3 and 4.7.2 is very good, but 4.1.10 is better! :)
4.9.6-7 have very seductive sound but musically are boring.
LP12/RadikalM/Keel/Ekos SE1/Adikt/Gaio/Klimax System Hub/2 Klimax Exaktbox/6 Solos/1 A4200/A242

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