DS firmware - what is the lastest on the most musical one?

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Post by paolo » 2011-05-20 16:44

Hi all guys,
just curious about your final verdict with Davaar after a while from its introduction. I've found it initially quite impressive, with great detail, dynamics, lack of compression and openness. It seemed to me also quite in tune. But I was wrong, I quickly realized it simply doesn't sound right to my ears, expecially lacking cohesiveness and bass integration. Couldn't stand it for more than two days, I'm back to Cara 3.4.2 and loving KDS again!
What's your experience with it?

Paolo

P.S.:
tried 4.1.5, 4.1.7 and Davaar1 official release (KDS/D)

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Post by Music Lover » 2012-07-15 16:46

Hi again!
Got my KDS back a year ago after the mkII upgrade and it had Davaar 4.2.1 installed. Still has due to lack of time comparing the following firmwares, anyone that had?

I have the following SW downloaded:
4.3.1, 4.3.2, 4.3.3, 4.4.2, 4.5.1, 4.5.3 and 4.7.5 (=Davaar 7)

So, what Davaar version is most musical?
It's all about musical understanding!

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Post by SaltyDog » 2012-07-15 23:12

The most musical IMHO is the latest Davaar.

It pales in comparison to using it in combination with jRiver Media Center v17 set to deliver 24 bit to the DS. Yes even when the file is 16 bit FLAC. The difference is bigger than any other single step in the history of DSs.

I have tried all of them. Media center needs to be set up properly, though, or it just sounds normal. I can't believe anyone could listen to my setup and be happy with going back. It is the most musical. It has been reverted to standard play and I was not happy.

Try it - you'll like it. Need any help just ask.

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Post by usjaz » 2012-07-16 05:16

SaltyDog wrote:The most musical IMHO is the latest Davaar.

It pales in comparison to using it in combination with jRiver Media Center v17 set to deliver 24 bit to the DS. Yes even when the file is 16 bit FLAC. The difference is bigger than any other single step in the history of DSs.

I have tried all of them. Media center needs to be set up properly, though, or it just sounds normal. I can't believe anyone could listen to my setup and be happy with going back. It is the most musical. It has been reverted to standard play and I was not happy.

Try it - you'll like it. Need any help just ask.
Yes. I noticed a big improvement with Davar 7 on my Renew (upgrade from Davar 5). Much more smooth and less digital!

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Post by Music Lover » 2012-07-16 11:07

SaltyDog wrote:The most musical IMHO is the latest Davaar.

It pales in comparison to using it in combination with jRiver Media Center v17 set to deliver 24 bit to the DS. Yes even when the file is 16 bit FLAC. The difference is bigger than any other single step in the history of DSs.
The difference between using Twonky on a NAS vs jRiver on a PC, is bigger than what?
All previous SW updates or all HW updates?

Please describe the "DS with NAS network" and the "DS with PC network"
It's all about musical understanding!

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Post by SaltyDog » 2012-07-16 13:48

Better than any software updates. Brings out the best in the KDS.

I have ADS/0, RDS and KDS/all the goodies whatever it's called.

At home the music files are on the NAS and I can use them with any server and control point. So the comparisons are very easy. There is just no question that using jRiver is better. You can install on any PC (Win7) and setup as you like. There are a few settings that must be used to get the best sound. It can be used to sound exactly the same as Twonky and Kinsky, but there is not the joy and emotion. The presentation is so much more balanced and musical.

The leading edge of each sound is more correct and the decay is naturally there.

Try it. I'd like to know your experience. Ears that I trust, too bad you can't show a smiley face in your response.

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Post by tokenbrit » 2012-07-16 17:54

Curious what's going on when jRiver is 'set to deliver 24 bit to the DS' that it'd sound better even with 16-bit source material. Clearly jRiver can't deliver any additional data as all it has to process is the original resolution... I wonder if this could be something in the DS processing similar to the preferences some reported between FLAC & WAV - hmmm?!? (would like to understand this a bit more - sorry if it's off topic for this thread)

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Post by SaltyDog » 2012-07-16 22:48

This complex. I want it to be simple.

It really doesn't matter how it happens.

The music can be on a NAS. It can be anywhere on a network. For jRiver to work as I have talked about it, I have to have it running on a PC. It will work with iThings and Browsers, but the PC Win7 way is highly polished. The other is like Linn's browser or even more rudimentary.

At home it is pointed to my NAS.

On the boat it is pointed through a Lenovo mini PC (Which is smaller than either the router or the Extenal HD.) to a USB3 External HD.

The DS is clearly receiving 24bit as the display on my KDS shows this. My ears know immediately. I could not tell a difference between AIFF, FLAC or WAV. I could notice things in one playback vs. the previous, but for me this normal even when nothing changes. I'm not over analyzing anything, just listening along. The music just dies when going through the normal Twonky, Asset, Davaar and control points.

The sound does not sound enhanced. It is just more musical. The start of each note is more defined. The decay of a string........it is just more natural.

There is a free 30 day trial. If you get it set up on a Win7 PC I can walk you through. I will never be able to explain why it works, or how it works. I can just tell you that I am 100% satisfied with my system's sound. I do not miss my LP12 anymore at any time. I do reserve the right to enjoy it again, but can honestly say I'm thrilled to have no background noise and more music than I recall from my modest TT.

I had to install an RDS - Majik (1993 integrated amp) and tukans, so I would stay at the boat instead of coming home to listen. No system ever has done that. ( Off topic I think I'll take a Karin and Klout out there to replace the Majik this weekend.)

Linn can make 16 bit sound better than Sonos. Why is it so hard to belive the number one rated computer music system cannot add to the Linn sound.

Try it and get back to me.

That's all for now. I'm off to go to the recording studio where Johnny V is recording "Rosie" tonight.

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Post by tokenbrit » 2012-07-17 16:19

I'm not making it complex, nor do I not believe you - I'm just wondering what might be going on in jRiver such that it improves the sound...

Have you heard the same results on XP? (I don't run Win7)

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Post by SaltyDog » 2012-07-17 18:05

I have been using it since early on. V12 or longer.

It was not until v17 and only with W7 that it is noteworthy.

The way W7 handles audio is different than XP.

I always used Twonky or Asset before. No difference in those sound wise.

I did not take any questions as a slight. Hope I did not come across in a bad way.

On the phone - please excuse.

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Post by tokenbrit » 2012-07-17 18:45

SaltyDog wrote:I have been using it since early on. V12 or longer.

It was not until v17 and only with W7 that it is noteworthy.

The way W7 handles audio is different than XP.

I always used Twonky or Asset before. No difference in those sound wise.

I did not take any questions as a slight. Hope I did not come across in a bad way.

On the phone - please excuse.
Good to know about v17 & Win7 as being the step forward - thanks. Presumably your home PC is wired on the same network as NAS & DS, rather than wireless...

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Post by SaltyDog » 2012-07-17 20:23

Cut and pasted from my recent post at the Linn forum:


I'm here. I'm not a geek, but have to work to get things done. Problem with that is that I don't always remember all of it exactly. So with that in mind here is SOME help.

It is very complex in how it can handle the libraries.

Think of a relational database, like an accounting program. It takes data (music files with tags) and relates that data in different queries, forms, skins, blah, blah, blah.........doesn't matter. People can personalize it to look how they want. I haven't spent much time fooling with that.

The things needed to get the sound I am thrilled with is:

1) Windows 7 - it handles music different than other Operating Systems.

It CAN work other ways, but I would not recommend them.

2) jRiver Media Center v17.

3) Music Files. In my case they are on a QNap 409 turbo pro at home and on a USB3 external HD on the boat.

4) Router

5) Wireless control points.

This could be the same PC or any other networked device. I use my laptop much of the time.

There is a no additional cost android app called GIZMO. It works very well.

I have a cable modem internet connection at home and everything works real well.

On the boat there is a complication in that the router I have needs an Eithernet modem. I don't have one there.
I need to use my phone as a hotspot for internet. This means that 2 networks are being used and that can be
troublesome. This is where a geek comes in handy, but have managed to get by without one.

6) Options: The settings that work for me.

The following settings are in the TOOLS - OPTIONS - AUDIO OUTPUT

Output mode. Set this to: WASAPI - event style.
Output mode settings: default

Settings - DSP & Output Format: This is where one selects the 24-bit. I also select Stereo 2 channel.

Those settings are the ones that make all the difference sound wise.

There are also settings in TOOLS - OPTIONS - that I needed to use. The following are ones I have used:

File Locations
Libraries and Folders
Media Network

So that is all for the basic setup to get redbook FLAC rips streamed to the DS in 24-bit.

I'm going to leave this reply as short as I can. I will edit it as needed (I usually don't like to edit other than typos). I will try to note any edits to avoid confusing anyone.
Klimax DS/1/D, Klimax Kontrol/1/D, ATC SCM50SL AT, jRiver Media Center v17

Salty Dog system RenewDS Majik-I (1993) Tukans and of course jRiver.

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Post by SaltyDog » 2012-07-17 20:31

I have an old laptop with a broken display running on the same wired network as the NAS and DS. The monitor output goes to the plasma TV upstairs in the listening room. The PC is left on all the time as is the NAS.

Most of the time I use a laptop wirelessly as the control point and the plasma is not used unless guest are over. Then I use theater view on the plasma and a wireless mouse.

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Post by Music Lover » 2012-07-18 17:13

SaltyDog wrote:The most musical IMHO is the latest Davaar.
But you wrote this on the Linn forum earlier today.
I heard no difference either between Davaar 5 and 7. Just no need to go back to 5 so I stayed with 7
So what SW versions have you tried and what is the most musical? Please elaborate.
It's all about musical understanding!

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Post by SaltyDog » 2012-07-18 19:12

Just what I said: Davaar 7 is the most musical, there is no difference between 5 & 7. 5 is no less musical IMHO.

jRiver and Davaar7 is the most musical. Until something changes that is it. I do not recall ever trying Davaar5 and jRiver Media Center v17.

I have tried almost every version for the KDS. I have an ADS and have not updated it for a long time. As I don't currently use it and it will never be a reference I am only commenting on the KDS.

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Post by Spannko » 2012-07-19 18:29

Sounds really interesting Salty, and potentially one of the cheapest upgrades to a Linn system, so great value too. How does JRiver affect your ability to apply Tune-Dem? Thanks for bringing this to everyone's attention.

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Post by SaltyDog » 2012-07-19 23:49

It is as good as I have ever heard on a HiFi.

I have been listening to a lot of live music lately.

Any time I can follow any and each instrument.

There is clearly something missing without it.

Most have paid much more for less improvement than this brings.

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Post by Music Lover » 2012-07-31 12:28

Did a short test yesterday.
Recap, my DS had Davaar 4.2.1 after the mkII upgrade last year.
(songcast disabled as that is most musical)
Davaar 4.5.1 - more musical
Davaar 4.5.3 - worse
Davaar 4.7.5 - better
Going to compare 4.5.1 vs 4.7.5 later on this week.

4.7.5 has a clear, sharp and impressive sound, not sure I like that as it is slightly towards sounding digital.
All firmwares have slightly different sound characteristics.
It's all about musical understanding!

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Post by SaltyDog » 2012-08-01 04:50

ML is there any reason you aren't using Davaar7?

Davaar8 is out. I am so content with what I have now I have not upgraded.

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Post by stefan » 2012-08-01 10:10

I have Akurate DS/0. Have been running Davaar 5 (4.5.3) for a while and been happy with it. Yesterday I installed Davaar 8. Installation went fine according to Konfig and it worked ok afterwards but when I plugged it in the sound was totally distorted. That was a moment of panic but I went back and installed Davaar 7 and it sounded as it should. Sent Linn a question what could have happened at my Davaar 8 installation.

Agree with ML, Davaar 7 sounds clear, sharp and impressive. We'll see how it feels after a few days.

ML, as far as I can see there are no 4.5.1 version for any model, only 4.5.3
http://products.linn.co.uk/VersionInfo/ ... /Releases/

Saltydog, 4.7.5 is Davaar 7.

Davaar 8 is only released for Akurate and contains support for Renew and updated DS/0. Suspect there are no differences from Davaar7 for my version but I don't know. Linn doesn't say much.
http://docs.linn.co.uk/wiki/index.php/ReleaseNotes

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Post by SaltyDog » 2012-08-01 15:20

Thanks for that. Realized as I started reading your post.

Good to not be be so aware - a sure sign of being content.

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Post by stefan » 2012-08-04 12:20

Have been running 4.7.5 for a few days now and been happy wih it. Installed 4.5.3 and that was no doubt less good. From Linns advice I gave 4.8.2 (Davaar 8) another try and it worked fine. Felt good right away. better than 4.5.3. Don't think there was much difference from 4.7.5, need to install that again to tell, but it will stay in 4.8.2 for now.

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Post by Music Lover » 2012-08-05 09:31

stefan wrote:ML, as far as I can see there are no 4.5.1 version for any model, only 4.5.3
http://products.linn.co.uk/VersionInfo/ ... /Releases/
This is the URL to the released SW's, correct.

If 4.5.3 is released, you going to have 4.5.2. and 4.5.1 as well.
In this case, only 4.5.1 was released as Beta.

This is the URL for Beta SW's, today empty.
http://products.linn.co.uk/VersionInfo/Downloads/Beta/
It's all about musical understanding!

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Post by Nicolav » 2012-08-10 02:00

Music Lover wrote:Did a short test yesterday.
Recap, my DS had Davaar 4.2.1 after the mkII upgrade last year.
(songcast disabled as that is most musical)
Davaar 4.5.1 - more musical
Davaar 4.5.3 - worse
Davaar 4.7.5 - better
Going to compare 4.5.1 vs 4.7.5 later on this week.

4.7.5 has a clear, sharp and impressive sound, not sure I like that as it is slightly towards sounding digital.
All firmwares have slightly different sound characteristics.
ML have you listended 4.3.3? For me (and Paolo) is the most musical Davaar ever (7 included). However I have not yet listened davaar 9.
I'd like to know your opinion on 4.3.3.

Thanks
Nicola
LP12/RadikalM/Keel/Ekos SE1/Adikt/Gaio/Klimax System Hub/2 Klimax Exaktbox/6 Solos/1 A4200/A242

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Post by Rufus McDufus » 2012-08-10 23:28

Anyone tried Davaar 9 yet? I'm sceptical about differences in firmware versions, but I'm interested to hear other opinions as I think I can detect a difference between this and 7 on my KDS/1.

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