Loudspeaker Internal Wiring

[Hermann]

I'll soon be replacing the crossover capacitors on another pair of Tukans. Question to the group. Has anyone tried internal cabling of old guard Linn speakers to K400? Or going further, outsourcing the crossover?

[Spannko]

I’ve tried K20, K400, 2.5mm² tri-rated cable and 4.0mm² tri-rated cable. As far as I can tell, there’s nothing particularly special about K20 or K400, they’re both composed of industry standard class 5 flexible annealed copper conductors encased in a PVC insulator. However ,there are different types of PVC, and I’m not aware of Linn ever describing which type they use. Inside the loudspeakers they use 2.5mm² class 5 conductor tri-rated instrument cable which is encased in a higher temperature PVC variant.

A full comparison is still on my list of projects to complete, but my general feeling so far is that 4mm² tri-rated cable works just as well as, if not better than, K20/400 inside a loudspeaker when given a 4.5” or 115mm twist, matching the twist of K400. It seems to work so well, I’m going to make up a 2.48m pair to compare with K400/2. What I’ve done, but not compared yet, is run the +(red) and -(black) cables in opposite directions to follow the current path through the loudspeaker. The result seems to be very tuneful, hence me not feeling an urgent need to compare with K400/2. One disadvantage of using K400 inside a loudspeaker is its stiffness. I wasn’t happy with the additional weight and pull on the drive unit terminals. K200 is only slightly better when trying to manoeuvre everything inside a small space. The twisted 4mm² tri-wire cable remains fairly flexible.

Re: removing the crossovers. All my crossovers have been external so far. Comparing the difference by putting them inside the loudspeaker is still on my list of jobs to do.

Edit: Just a thought, what capacitors are you thinking of swapping to?

[Hermann]

Thank you for sharing your experiences. Since the effort is high, I will probably test this on my own Tukans. What are "4mm² tri-rated cables"?

My Tukans are equipped with Solen, the Keiligh with Dayton Audio capacitors, which I like better. I will install Dayton Audios again and thus create the opportunity to compare both types directly.

[Spannko]

You’re welcome.

I bought mine from here: https://uk.farnell.com/tri-rated-cable-and-wireand I notice that LAPP are now manufacturing a tri-rated cable: https://lapplimited.lappgroup.com/prod ... cable.html. These are both UK sites, but it’s easily available in most countries.

I prefer the Dayton’s to the Solen’s too, although they’re both more musical than any of the “audiophile” capacitors I’ve tried. My personal favourite is the Monacor MKP.

PS I don’t recommend any of the audiophile solders either. There are hundreds of different solders available, so it’s practically impossible to try them all. My usual approach is to keep trying different types, then stop when I find something which sounds harmonious enough to live with. This is what I use: https://uk.farnell.com/multicore-locti ... j4QAvD_BwE

[Hermann]

Thank you for the info. It is not easy to buy small quantities of the LAPP ÖLFLEX® UNIPLUS TRI cable. Apparently they are only sold in India and the UK. Even ebay only wants from the UK at pretty prices and usually 100m rolls. In any case, I can't find them in Lapp shops outside the UK.

Farnel doesn't want to do business with me, which I tried to resolve over the phone, but without success.

We initially used Fluitin 82587 Sn60 1532 as solder, which was later replaced by Stannol S-Sn 60 1mm. I'm currently using Fredrik solder, which outperforms both. The MULTICORE / LOCTITE 362 60EN 5C can be ordered in NL, but is not delivered to Germany.

The internal wiring of the Keiligh is CSA Type TEW 105° LL55188 E28423 14 AW6 AWM Style 1019 105° 600V VW B56231 2.5 mm². Seems to be a normal cable. The bass drivers won't be the problem with K400, but the tweeter connections will be.

The Monacors have been ordered and after rewiring my Tukan I will test them, which will be easier with an external crossover.

[Spannko]

If you want to try the Farnell 4mm² tri-rated cable, let me know and I’ll pop some in the post.

[Hermann]

Thanks Spannko, I'll send you a PM straight away.

Currently recapped 72 and 140 are warming up. I notice an increase in height of the converted Keiligh. They sound very transparent and rhythmic, but I don't yet know to what extent the undamped room (52 square meters, ceiling height 4 meters) plays a role. Same impression with Marco's Boazu. Dayton Audio capacitors are installed in the Keiligh. I may swap them for Monacor MKP types. The 2nd pair of Tukan will not be converted with MKP until next weekend, so there is still time for organizational work. My Tukan has new Solen and that react much more cautiously.

[Spannko]

It’s often said that the Dayton’s are rebranded Bennic’s, which is another capacitor Linn have used in the past. The Bennic’s are extremely difficult to get hold of and the only retail supplier I know of are in India. The European distributors don’t appear to be still in business and it looks like Bennic prefer to concentrate on shipping in the 10’s of thousands these days.

[Rutger]

I’ve tried K20, K400, 2.5mm² tri-rated cable and 4.0mm² tri-rated cable. As far as I can tell, there’s nothing particularly special about K20 or K400, they’re both composed of industry standard class 5 flexible annealed copper conductors encased in a PVC insulator. However ,there are different types of PVC, and I’m not aware of Linn ever describing which type they use. Inside the loudspeakers they use 2.5mm² class 5 conductor tri-rated instrument cable which is encased in a higher temperature PVC variant.

A full comparison is still on my list of projects to complete, but my general feeling so far is that 4mm² tri-rated cable works just as well as, if not better than, K20/400 inside a loudspeaker when given a 4.5” or 115mm twist, matching the twist of K400. It seems to work so well, I’m going to make up a 2.48m pair to compare with K400/2. What I’ve done, but not compared yet, is run the +(red) and -(black) cables in opposite directions to follow the current path through the loudspeaker. The result seems to be very tuneful, hence me not feeling an urgent need to compare with K400/2. One disadvantage of using K400 inside a loudspeaker is its stiffness. I wasn’t happy with the additional weight and pull on the drive unit terminals. K200 is only slightly better when trying to manoeuvre everything inside a small space. The twisted 4mm² tri-wire cable remains fairly flexible.

Re: removing the crossovers. All my crossovers have been external so far. Comparing the difference by putting them inside the loudspeaker is still on my list of jobs to do.

Edit: Just a thought, what capacitors are you thinking of swapping to?

Interesting spannko .

My experience with loudspeaker cables is that better sounding is always better, i.e 3 meter of k20 is better sounding than the average 3 meter 1.5 mm copper cable. So those 3 meters of k20 outside the speaker will make a difference for the better, even If there is 0,5 meter cheap 1.5 mm cable inside the speaker.
I have tried using k20 inside one of my DIY speaker also, and the sound got slightly more tuneful.

Its temting to just use the thickest copper cables available in very short lenghts, but as you know there are no such rules regarding better sound quality.

[matthias]

One disadvantage of using K400 inside a loudspeaker is its stiffness. I wasn’t happy with the additional weight and pull on the drive unit terminals.

I like to modify audio devices but this is the reason I left my 3677s unmodified so far. The only mod I have done for the 3677s is to use no speaker cable connectors at the speaker end.

[Spannko]

I’ve found that bypassing the loudspeaker input terminals is a worthwhile exercise too.👍

[matthias]

I’ve found that bypassing the loudspeaker input terminals is a worthwhile exercise too.👍

My motto: Get rid of redundant parts like switches, connectors, fuses.......

[sunbeamgls]

I've used stripped and then re-twisted K400 cables in lots of speaker projects because I have quite a few offcuts lying around. I take care to note and label directionality when stripping thr sleeve away.
It works fine but can be a bit stressful when soldering to a 038 tweeter, needing to get the cable up to full solder flowing temp before touching briefly to a tinned tweeter terminal then removing the heat asap and keeping everything very still until cooled.
The Maverick Edition Keilidhs recently played at the Maverick show were internally wired with stripped and re-twisted K400.
I've not done a comparison with other forms of internal cabling, perhaps that's something for retirement time :)