Optimizing your DS

Hardware and software, modifications and DIY

Moderator: Staff

User avatar
Briain
Active Member
Active Member
Posts: 86
Joined: 2008-09-05 14:37
Location: Edinburgh

Re: Optimizing your DS

Post by Briain »

Ron The Mon wrote: Re: Apparently no Musical Method of Evaluation?

Yet just over a year ago you wrote on the Linn Forum about the Friwo power supplies (emphasis mine):

"Of course, the main issue I was trying to address was not the noise coming out from the DC side, but the noise coming out from the other end; the noise that these SMPS spit back into the AC mains wiring (which, in turn, can act as an antenna and thus cause significant radio interference); that was my entire reason for seeking these out. I doubt it much matters too much if you feed a switch with a slightly noisier supply (though to be honest, I've never compared supplies by listening to music, so I really can't say, one way or the other), but noise can never be a good thing, so it can certainly never do any harm to get rid if it."
I just noticed your response with that highlighted section. If you read my previous posts here, you will note that I specifically avoided suggesting to anybody (on the Linn forum) that it would make any difference to the sound quality of their systems, as I suspected that it would be highly dependant on the local circumstances (where it is WRT their HiFi sockets) and I didn't want to encourage lots of folks to waste their money on something that might make no difference (in fact, from memory I didn't even start that thread). At that time, I did actually think that replacing all the SMPSs in my lounge made a slight difference to the system's musicality (which is why I later privately suggested to a few folks that might want to try them) but at that time, I did not want to state that claim on the public forum (over the years, I have actually avoided stating my thoughts on subjective sound quality of products; I've always tended to stick to technical observations and to keep my opinion on sound quality to myself).

Others tried a FRIWO (and I loaned a few out) and did find that it did make a difference, so that was all quite interesting evidence that they are at least worthy of consideration. Of course, forgetting the ones in the lounge for a moment, I have since also found that a FRIWO fed GS108 does sound better than my D-Link managed switch (despite them being quite a distance from my DS) so that is yet another interesting finding (though that was changing two devices at the same time - both the switch and its PSU - so again, I haven't made any claims as to exactly what changed the sound; just that I need to do a lot more investigation into exactly what's going on and what making that difference).

As you can see from my posts of the screenshots (at the end of the previous page) even a pretty decent SMPS produces quite a lot of spikes; you should see what some of the less respectable ones put out! None of this can be really be considered as being a 'good' thing; the question is whether it has any impact on a music system (but in general, there sure is no harm in removing it as many linear regulators beyond it will let switching spikes 'pass through' them). Back to HiFi and in general, I'd say that over the years, I've managed to improve the sound of my system really quite significantly; most individual changes have been small ones (including my SMPS noise jihad and my bespoke mains supply) but I know for sure that the cumulative results have been significant and thus well worth all the hard work (and hard spend, in some cases). :-)

Incidentally, for another project that I am working on (which has nothing to do with audio), I can find no SMPS units with low enough ripple and noise to avoid causing me nasty problems, so I am having to build a triple rail linear supply with +5, +12 and -12 Volt outputs (which will easily be an order of magnitude quieter in terms of ripple, and virtually silent in terms of 'spikes') so even the nicer 'frame' SMPS units (costing < £100) are actually quite poor performers (in terms of ripple) when compared to a well designed linear supply.

Bri :-)
tokenbrit
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 2039
Joined: 2012-03-22 19:47
Location: New England

Re: Optimizing your DS

Post by tokenbrit »

I realise that there will be an element of local environment possibly / probably dictating results more than technical absolutes which, ultimately, means 'suck it & see', but I'm wondering if anyone has experience to offer opinions on the following...

I know that Tom has found that the Linn & Lejonklou electronics sound better, in the US, on 220 than on 110 volts, and I had a dedicated 220v spur put in when we lived in MO. I left the GS108 plugged in to the 110v ring(?) circuit, reasoning that any noise put back out by the Netgear wall wart would be isolated from the hifi. I didn't consider radio / radiated EMF interference - the wall wart was physically near the hifi. I didn't try the wall wart plugged in to the 2nd outlet on the 220v spur to avoid noise that could (would?) have more direct effect on the hifi electronics.

1. From Briain's posts, it seems that a bad power supply on a network component can impact the sound quality of the hifi system, even if the outlets are electrically remote, if not isolated. If I read correctly, the improvement could come from the GS108 over the managed switch, rather than from the FRIWO over an inferior wall wart [wrt noise & ripple]
Is there a general recommendation where to plug in network power supplies, relative to the hifi electronics, and does the FRIWO change the recommendation at all? What amount of electrical (& physical) isolation is advised?

2. Further to the location of any network power supplies relative to the hifi, has anyone tried feeding a GS108 a diet of 220, rather than 110v? If so, what were the results and what was the electrical arrangement?

Currently, in our new place, the hifi, GS108, and NAS are all on 110v, and all on the same circuit, I think. I am still using the power supply that came with the GS108, but I've been thinking of getting a FRIWO so have been reading the recent posts on this thread with interest. I do have a power supply from a GS105 that I could compare against the one that came with the 108, but I'm well aware that I need to get a 220v spur put in for the hifi. Curious what folk here think should be the plan - power supply & voltage - for the network components, to accompany the 220v supply to the hifi system.

(Apologies for the longer than usual post from me - it seemed only appropriate following posts from Briain and Tom ;) )
User avatar
lejonklou
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 6524
Joined: 2007-01-30 10:38
Location: Sweden
Contact:

Re: Optimizing your DS

Post by lejonklou »

tokenbrit, I have little experience with mixing 115 and 230 Volt mains. But I can say what has usually worked best in my installations, all on 230 V:

The HiFi components should all be fed from one distribution block, where I place the preamps first (closest to the incoming mains power), sources second (for instance DS and LP12) and power amps last.

The "preamp first" order has been debated here in the past. Some have found that it sounds better with the sources first and preamps second, but so far I have always found it more musical with preamps first. I keep testing these two arrangements against each other when I encounter new systems.

NAS and switch should be fed from a separate distribution block. This block should be plugged into the wall fairly close to the block for the HiFi. Sometimes it sounds best when they share the same wall outlet, other times it can be better if they get separate outlets that are fairly close physically and are on the same cable from the fuse box. So far I have found it worse to separate them more than that. Such as on two different cables from the fuse box, or two different fuses and cables, or two different phases, fuses and cables.
tokenbrit
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 2039
Joined: 2012-03-22 19:47
Location: New England

Re: Optimizing your DS

Post by tokenbrit »

That's exactly how I have it except all on 115, and with switch & NAS plugged in to wall outlets on same cable but separate sockets, rather than a distribution block, due to location... Many thanks, Fredrik. I will plan accordingly when I get the 230 spur put in.
Spannko
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 2292
Joined: 2008-01-24 21:46
Location: North East of The Black Country, UK

Re: Optimizing your DS

Post by Spannko »

lejonklou wrote:tokenbrit, I have little experience with mixing 115 and 230 Volt mains. But I can say what has usually worked best in my installations, all on 230 V:

The HiFi components should all be fed from one distribution block, where I place the preamps first (closest to the incoming mains power), sources second (for instance DS and LP12) and power amps last.

The "preamp first" order has been debated here in the past. Some have found that it sounds better with the sources first and preamps second, but so far I have always found it more musical with preamps first. I keep testing these two arrangements against each other when I encounter new systems.

NAS and switch should be fed from a separate distribution block. This block should be plugged into the wall fairly close to the block for the HiFi. Sometimes it sounds best when they share the same wall outlet, other times it can be better if they get separate outlets that are fairly close physically and are on the same cable from the fuse box. So far I have found it worse to separate them more than that. Such as on two different cables from the fuse box, or two different fuses and cables, or two different phases, fuses and cables.
Have you ever tried a "hydra" type mains arrangement? And if so, how did it perform?
User avatar
Ron The Mon
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 301
Joined: 2014-07-17 17:17
Location: Detroit
Contact:

Optimizing your Electrical

Post by Ron The Mon »

Spannko wrote:Have you ever tried a "hydra" type mains arrangement? And if so, how did it perform?
Spannko,
U.S. electrical code and infrastructure is quite different than the UK (which I assume you're from). Most "U.S."-sold hi-fi components don't have IEC type AC connectors (Lejonklou phono amps are a good example). A "Hydra" would be worthless here as one or more hi-fi components may be out of sequence of their proper order, negating their hierarchy and that benefit.

All U.S. homes have 230VAC run to them with a grounded neutral. 115VAC is had by connecting half of one two-phase to ground, and is the native voltage. By connecting both phases together (at 230VAC), the ground-noise reference is reduced. This is, I believe, why Tom O'Keefe, and others, find 230VAC U.S. better sounding.

My experience and opinion is that a proper earthing method and 115VAC in the U.S. sounds best (using tune-dem). I have tried both. Tom has invited me to his home numerous times over the years and I should take advantage of his current circumstances as I'm sure he's drinking, smoking, and gambling now.

I have climbed many electrical distribution poles over the years and sunk quite a few earth rods to extensive depths to improve my hi-hi. If you want to reduce garbage (noise) in your AC you must reduce it at your suppliers end (which includes your neighbors' interference), meaning the electrical line itself. Trying to fix it in your home via a "Hydra" type device, or an improved "wall-wart", will only neglect the original source and impending origins of interference.

Ron The Mon
User avatar
macrotech2
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 456
Joined: 2012-04-27 07:58

Re: Optimizing your DS

Post by macrotech2 »

I agree with what you say about the origins of the "problems" Ron. However, it depends how well these issues are solved downstream of their origin.

If the original issues can be completely removed by, say, the mains cable containing the equipment to the supply, then the problem is solved. As an analogy, if my water filter completely removes all the contaminants from the water supplied to my house, I don't care how those contaminants arose, because they never reach my mouth.

This is my rationale for people who say (frequently!) that a mains cable can't make a difference because I have no control of the supply reaching my home.
Källa/Sagatun Mono Tarandus/Tundra Mono 3/Avalon Idea Mk2
User avatar
lejonklou
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 6524
Joined: 2007-01-30 10:38
Location: Sweden
Contact:

Re: Optimizing your DS

Post by lejonklou »

Spannko wrote:Have you ever tried a "hydra" type mains arrangement? And if so, how did it perform?
Yes, I used to build a few of those. They were not as tuneful as a good mains block and power cords. BUT I knew less then than I do today, for instance how important the copper area and length of each cable is. And in addition, the cords I used were soon superseded by better sounding models. So I don't really feel like reverting to a hydra, where I can no longer test new power cords.

I've come across some hydra's and home-made mains blocks, so I'd like to mention that for 230 V mains, the cable going from wall socket to mains block should be short and 1.5 sq mm of copper. All the best blocks I've tried and made have had that arrangement. Thicker cable has not been an improvement (so far) and standard power cords, which are thinner, should not be used. The optimal length I don't know exactly, but half a meter has been better than one meter, which has been better than longer.

Power cords, used between the mains block and the HiFi units, are either of 1.0 sq mm or 0.75 sq mm copper. Both work but have different optimal lengths. A 1.0 sq mm cord normally has an optimal length of 2.5 m while a 0.75 sq mm cord normally has an optional length of 2 m. There are some odd exceptions to these rules, so each cable needs to be evaluated individually.
User avatar
lejonklou
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 6524
Joined: 2007-01-30 10:38
Location: Sweden
Contact:

Re: Optimizing your Electrical

Post by lejonklou »

Ron The Mon wrote:My experience and opinion is that a proper earthing method and 115VAC in the U.S. sounds best (using tune-dem). I have tried both. Tom has invited me to his home numerous times over the years and I should take advantage of his current circumstances as I'm sure he's drinking, smoking, and gambling now.
That is really interesting, Ron!

I should mention that I've done some tests with 230 versus 115 V and have been surprised that 115 V sounds really good, when I've sort of expected it to be worse. These tests have little to do with an actual situation/installation in North America, where as you mention many things are affected, but they do tell me that the units themselves have no problem running on 115 V.
Spannko
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 2292
Joined: 2008-01-24 21:46
Location: North East of The Black Country, UK

Re: Optimizing your DS

Post by Spannko »

lejonklou wrote:
Spannko wrote:Have you ever tried a "hydra" type mains arrangement? And if so, how did it perform?
Yes, I used to build a few of those. They were not as tuneful as a good mains block and power cords. BUT I knew less then than I do today, for instance how important the copper area and length of each cable is. And in addition, the cords I used were soon superseded by better sounding models. So I don't really feel like reverting to a hydra, where I can no longer test new power cords.

I've come across some hydra's and home-made mains blocks, so I'd like to mention that for 230 V mains, the cable going from wall socket to mains block should be short and 1.5 sq mm of copper. All the best blocks I've tried and made have had that arrangement. Thicker cable has not been an improvement (so far) and standard power cords, which are thinner, should not be used. The optimal length I don't know exactly, but half a meter has been better than one meter, which has been better than longer.

Power cords, used between the mains block and the HiFi units, are either of 1.0 sq mm or 0.75 sq mm copper. Both work but have different optimal lengths. A 1.0 sq mm cord normally has an optimal length of 2.5 m while a 0.75 sq mm cord normally has an optional length of 2 m. There are some odd exceptions to these rules, so each cable needs to be evaluated individually.
That's great, thanks.

I'm still trying to understand why a mains block out performs a hydra arrangement. The hydra has fewer connections and possibly eliminates ground currents (I say possibly because it may not be true).

But, there must be other factors at play which I'm unaware of, possibly related to why the order of plugging in is so significant. Do you have any theories about what might be happening?
User avatar
lejonklou
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 6524
Joined: 2007-01-30 10:38
Location: Sweden
Contact:

Re: Optimizing your DS

Post by lejonklou »

Spannko wrote:I'm still trying to understand why a mains block out performs a hydra arrangement. The hydra has fewer connections and possibly eliminates ground currents (I say possibly because it may not be true).
I am not sure it's always better with fewer connections.

There's also the case with fuses: Sometimes fuses affect performance negatively (but usually they're needed for safety, so it's not advisable to remove them), but other times I have found that it actually sounds worse without the fuse. When measuring a passive fuse, it has a tiny resistance and inductance. I have found that in the cases where the fuse really improves the sound, that resistance and inductance can be optimised. So fuses can be measured and selected into groups, where certain values result in the highest performance. It's neither the highest nor the lowest, but apparently just the right amount to result in a little (very little!) filtering of the incoming mains. This selection is something I do for the internal fuse on my phono stage Slipsik 6.
Spannko wrote:But, there must be other factors at play which I'm unaware of, possibly related to why the order of plugging in is so significant. Do you have any theories about what might be happening?
I agree the order of plugging in is quite significant. I don't really understand why! Theories related to the mains power, for instance high frequency content on the mains, incoming or emitted from the units, shouldn't follow this strange pre-source-power order, but rather vary with each unit and system, I think. So my bet is that it mainly has to do with the ground. How the chassis grounds are interconnected is a very sensitive thing, even when there's no mains ground in the wall socket (in many older apartments here, there's only two conductors; live and neutral).
Defender
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 1266
Joined: 2018-02-14 22:35

Re: Optimizing your DS

Post by Defender »

lejonklou wrote:
NAS and switch should be fed from a separate distribution block. This block should be plugged into the wall fairly close to the block for the HiFi. Sometimes it sounds best when they share the same wall outlet, other times it can be better if they get separate outlets that are fairly close physically and are on the same cable from the fuse box. So far I have found it worse to separate them more than that. Such as on two different cables from the fuse box, or two different fuses and cables, or two different phases, fuses and cables.
thats interesting I always thought keeping "dirty" things power wise separated from the music system. thats why I have my NAS and my GS 108T on a seperate cable, separate fuse.
Meaning music system (DS, Pre- and Power-Amp) got a dedicated cable and a dedicated fuse.
Since I have only one wall outlet I have now put the NAS and the GS108T after the power amp in the distribution block.
Lets see tonight!
User avatar
lejonklou
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 6524
Joined: 2007-01-30 10:38
Location: Sweden
Contact:

Re: Optimizing your DS

Post by lejonklou »

Defender wrote:
lejonklou wrote:
NAS and switch should be fed from a separate distribution block. This block should be plugged into the wall fairly close to the block for the HiFi. Sometimes it sounds best when they share the same wall outlet, other times it can be better if they get separate outlets that are fairly close physically and are on the same cable from the fuse box. So far I have found it worse to separate them more than that. Such as on two different cables from the fuse box, or two different fuses and cables, or two different phases, fuses and cables.
thats interesting I always thought keeping "dirty" things power wise separated from the music system. thats why I have my NAS and my GS 108T on a seperate cable, separate fuse.
Meaning music system (DS, Pre- and Power-Amp) got a dedicated cable and a dedicated fuse.
Since I have only one wall outlet I have now put the NAS and the GS108T after the power amp in the distribution block.
Lets see tonight!
Looking forward to your impressions!

I think the idea of "dirty" versus "music related" power leads wrong. It's a theory that doesn't work in practice. It's better to regard them all as important and experiment to find the most musical solution.

However, NAS and switch should not be powered after the power amps in a daisy chain. For some reason, the order in which each unit is powered is important. It's better if they're fed from a separate strip, powered from the same single outlet that you have. I don't know, however, how to optimally split your single outlet into two...
Defender
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 1266
Joined: 2018-02-14 22:35

Re: Optimizing your DS

Post by Defender »

Hi Lejonklou - was interesting - what I realised in changing this but also making my mind up with respect to SO "off" is that I might got a better understanding about what you and others said about musicality.

I was easily tricked by the clarity SO creates with tighter bass, better understanding of voices ... a more clean presentation.
With SO "off" it sounds a little bit more grainy - less clear and understanding of voices is more difficult - more sibilings. However I have more fun hearing and get better understanding how the musicians interact.

It kind of reminds me of my first steps into DS (2009) where I ended up selling my Majik DS because it felt like it sucked the emotions out of the recordings. Everything was clearer and more detailed but also emotionless.

Would like to have both ;) More clarity but still the emotions and the understanding.

For the switch of the power lines I feel like I am hearing a better, wider soundstage, more front to back layers and more precise placing of the musicians.

Sorry for changing two things in a short time which I dont like doing so it could be that some of the things are related to the other change.

Need to sort out how not to daisy chain.

How about this: the first two oulets of the block are equal because the cable is connected between the two to the internal wiring of the block.

=I
===========
O O O O O O
O O O O O O
===========
=I
If I am using the first outlet for the NAS and the switch and the second for pre, third for DS and fourth for Power it should be almost the same like splitting the outlet directly at the wall - or do I have a brain fart?
User avatar
lejonklou
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 6524
Joined: 2007-01-30 10:38
Location: Sweden
Contact:

Re: Optimizing your DS

Post by lejonklou »

Defender wrote:Hi Lejonklou - was interesting - what I realised in changing this but also making my mind up with respect to SO "off" is that I might got a better understanding about what you and others said about musicality.

I was easily tricked by the clarity SO creates with tighter bass, better understanding of voices ... a more clean presentation.
With SO "off" it sounds a little bit more grainy - less clear and understanding of voices is more difficult - more sibilings. However I have more fun hearing and get better understanding how the musicians interact.

It kind of reminds me of my first steps into DS (2009) where I ended up selling my Majik DS because it felt like it sucked the emotions out of the recordings. Everything was clearer and more detailed but also emotionless.

Would like to have both ;) More clarity but still the emotions and the understanding.

For the switch of the power lines I feel like I am hearing a better, wider soundstage, more front to back layers and more precise placing of the musicians.

Sorry for changing two things in a short time which I dont like doing so it could be that some of the things are related to the other change.

Need to sort out how not to daisy chain.

How about this: the first two oulets of the block are equal because the cable is connected between the two to the internal wiring of the block.

=I
===========
O O O O O O
O O O O O O
===========
=I
If I am using the first outlet for the NAS and the switch and the second for pre, third for DS and fourth for Power it should be almost the same like splitting the outlet directly at the wall - or do I have a brain fart?
You're right in that changing two things at once can cause confusion. But it's still Better or Worse and you can always separate the two changes later.

In some cases it makes sense to change a lot of things at once. For instance when a long series of compensations have been made to a system, such as mechanical alterations (feet, shelves, isolations, etc) or all the cables. Then I prefer to revome everything at once and replace it with the original, just to hear which actually performs better.

Your idea about the first two outlets is certainly worth a try!

I suspect that the optimal situation is that a certain length of mains cable separates the NAS and switch from the HiFi components. Perhaps this can be evaluated by testing different lengths of cable to the power block feeding the NAS and switch? In general, I find that the power block feeding the HiFi should have a ~1.5 mm2 cable to the wall of the shortest possible length (around half a metre is common and clearly better than 1, 2 or 3 m). The same thing appears to work for NAS and switch - when plugged into a separate outlet in the wall.

Maybe the way you intend to connect your power block feeding NAS and switch works better if the cable to this block is a bit longer. You could try getting a few cheap blocks (often the cheap ones are the best) that are identical apart from the cable length.

I hope my explanation made sense. It might seem like a silly detail, but I find this part of the system worthwhile spending a little time on. It sets some kind of foundation for how the system performs.
Defender
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 1266
Joined: 2018-02-14 22:35

Re: Optimizing your DS

Post by Defender »

got what you mean - will try over the weekend - thank you very much for your help
tokenbrit
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 2039
Joined: 2012-03-22 19:47
Location: New England

Re: Optimizing your DS

Post by tokenbrit »

lejonklou wrote: In general, I find that the power block feeding the HiFi should have a ~1.5 mm2 cable to the wall of the shortest possible length (around half a metre is common and clearly better than 1, 2 or 3 m).
1.5mm² is 16awg, I believe. I still have 14 and 12awg to compare, so will have to make up half meter lengths to connect wall outlet to distribution block... I'm currently using a Linn Longwell for the job which, I think, is 18awg, and ~2m.
You mention that half- is clearly better than 1+ meters. Do you have a sense of whether gauge is more or less important than length _of cable_ for this purpose? Curious whether the effects of an unnecessarily long cable are similar to that of a heavier gauge than necessary.
User avatar
lejonklou
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 6524
Joined: 2007-01-30 10:38
Location: Sweden
Contact:

Re: Optimizing your DS

Post by lejonklou »

tokenbrit wrote:
lejonklou wrote: In general, I find that the power block feeding the HiFi should have a ~1.5 mm2 cable to the wall of the shortest possible length (around half a metre is common and clearly better than 1, 2 or 3 m).
1.5mm² is 16awg, I believe. I still have 14 and 12awg to compare, so will have to make up half meter lengths to connect wall outlet to distribution block... I'm currently using a Linn Longwell for the job which, I think, is 18awg, and ~2m.
You mention that half- is clearly better than 1+ meters. Do you have a sense of whether gauge is more or less important than length _of cable_ for this purpose? Curious whether the effects of an unnecessarily long cable are similar to that of a heavier gauge than necessary.
When I tried designing my own power block (which was a failure, because at great expense it sounded about as good as the best cheap plastic power block) I found that although 18 awg (which in metric is in between the two common 0.75 and 1.00 mm2 gauges) is great for power cords, it's not that good to the power block, which sounds best with roughly twice the copper area.

Longer length has a signature, but it's not the same as "too thick" or "too thin". I can't describe them now, but if you do a series of comparisons, you will quickly recognize the character of each parameter and how it shifts.

I think that finding the right cable and orienting it in the best sounding direction is definitely more important than the length.
Defender
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 1266
Joined: 2018-02-14 22:35

Re: Optimizing your DS

Post by Defender »

Have you ever experimented with a solid core cable from wall to power block? Meaning a cable you would usually use for installation.
I know its against EU rules and only recommended as an experiment.
tokenbrit
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 2039
Joined: 2012-03-22 19:47
Location: New England

Re: Optimizing your DS

Post by tokenbrit »

Defender wrote:Have you ever experimented with a solid core cable from wall to power block? Meaning a cable you would usually use for installation.
I know its against EU rules and only recommended as an experiment.
I have both stranded & solid core in 14awg (~2.5mm²) - will work out how to make & post clips in comparison to a Linn power cord from wall to power block, but have to put my system back together first (that's another story) and give the 14awg cabling a decent burn-in, so don't expect anything soon ;)
User avatar
lejonklou
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 6524
Joined: 2007-01-30 10:38
Location: Sweden
Contact:

Re: Optimizing your DS

Post by lejonklou »

Defender wrote:Have you ever experimented with a solid core cable from wall to power block? Meaning a cable you would usually use for installation.
I know its against EU rules and only recommended as an experiment.
Yes. Not the best.
tokenbrit
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 2039
Joined: 2012-03-22 19:47
Location: New England

Re: Optimizing your DS

Post by tokenbrit »

Interesting since US domestic wiring (in the walls / behind the plasterboard) is solid core. Have to wonder if our systems wouldn't sound better if we could wire stranded from fuse panel to the wall sockets. I believe that's what Spannko was investigating, but I don't recall the conclusion, or whether there was any consensus from the clips...
Spannko
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 2292
Joined: 2008-01-24 21:46
Location: North East of The Black Country, UK

Re: Optimizing your DS

Post by Spannko »

It takes time for each change to settle down, so it’s a really slow process, plus the fact that there are so many versions of even the same spec cable, it makes coming to any solid conclusions quite difficult.

But rest assured, I’m still working on it!
Defender
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 1266
Joined: 2018-02-14 22:35

Re: Optimizing your DS

Post by Defender »

this is interesting as theoretically solid core should have a better HF rejection and so a less noisy power distribution.
But shows that the usual thinking behavior doesn't work.
Defender
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 1266
Joined: 2018-02-14 22:35

Re: Optimizing your DS

Post by Defender »

I wanted to give you feedback on moving the NAS and switch to the same dedicated music system power supply cable instead of having them at a different cable.
I also tried to not daisy chain them.

Putting them on the first socket with another power block and at the same time moving Pre, DS and Amp one socket down in the line didn’t really improved things.
Maybe the Pre and the DS like their position in the power distribution too much or the other cable/power block needed more run in.
So I switched back to daisy chain. What I found out was that my Friwo power Supply to the switch GS108T seem to be influenced from at what power pin it gets the power.
One direction less musical and less tuneful the other direction much more fun.
I have no explanation to that - there is no ground involved and the Friwo is a switched mode power supply so I thought there can’t be a difference?

Am I am hearing the grass grow? I am confused! Anyone experienced the same?
Post Reply