I posted this in another related thread but felt I should post it here as well. Although I had previously mentioned finding I preferred damping pads cut from the foam in Linn Trampolin boxes to the fiberfill pads supplied with the Reference K bottom by Harmonihyllan, I have recently had reason to reverse that finding. In some additional listening, after I changed my ATCs to passive and started using the Tundra Mono 2a amps, I concluded that the damping pad supplied by Anders is musically superior to the foam from the Trampolin boxes. With this system the difference in tunefulness was easily audible. This is something which Fredrik had confirmed to me that he had found as well. I am in the process of trying to find the same thickness of fiberfill material locally so I can make another pad for my second rack.

That the positioning of a rack is important have been known many years. Anders must have forgot mentioning that.
Also the size of the K-base shelf damping is important.
The torq of each component in the rack is as well.

Music Lover wrote:That the positioning of a rack is important have been known many years. Anders must have forgot mentioning that.
Also the size of the K-base shelf damping is important.
The torq of each component in the rack is as well.

I can confirm that.

Also when placing the shelf well away from the speakers (in another room) the positioning of the shelf may be of significant importance. I ended up having it a bit weird in the space I have, but the positive result from this position made it worth it.

I have the equipment in a small IKEA kitchen cabinet. I'm sure it can be improved upon :) Is there I middle road that is a significant improvement without buying Harmonihyllan? Something less costly and simple? If my return to hifi persists I suppose I will look at one Trud and three Oden shelves. I've read strong statement that AkDS on Harmonihyllan can outperform KlimaxDS on the floor etc. :o

If you are lacking the budget for Harmonihyllan, get the (basic) Quadraspire Q4 evo rack instead.
These are good, affordable racks which can also relatively easy be found on the used market.

mrco99 wrote: ↑2021-08-29 13:52 If you are lacking the budget for Harmonihyllan, get the (basic) Quadraspire Q4 evo rack instead.
These are good, affordable racks which can also relatively easy be found on the used market.

I´ll second that. Q4Evo is good, can´t say if it is better than other racks in the same pricerange, but they are quite affordable and can be found second hand from time to time - even in Sweden.... ;)

Just keep looking at the used section...thats how I found my Harmonihyllan.

Is there any consensus on the building materials if I go the DIY route?
For example Ikea's kitchen Thick veneer worktops or laminate worktops. Or are lighter shelves preferable. I Know the only thing to do is listen and compare :) And that is what you pay for in harmonihyllan! I know.

I'm just hoping for some guidelines...I'm not even sure my chip board cabinet is that bad. I have not compared to anything.

I only need two shelves at the moment. That's not an option on the Harmonihylla site.

my understanding with the Harmoni Rack is that you can’t really use the base shelf for the a component to be placed upon. So in your case it would be a 3 level rack anyway (I know that doesnt make it easier or less expensive :( )

Defender wrote: ↑2021-08-30 08:48 my understanding with the Harmoni Rack is that you can’t really use the base shelf for the a component to be placed upon. So in your case it would be a 3 level rack anyway (I know that doesnt make it easier or less expensive :( )

The photographs on the company website suggest otherwise.

Anyone tried using the Tune Method on IKEA Aptitlig? :)

FairPlayMotty wrote: ↑2021-08-30 18:11

Defender wrote: ↑2021-08-30 08:48 my understanding with the Harmoni Rack is that you can’t really use the base shelf for the a component to be placed upon. So in your case it would be a 3 level rack anyway (I know that doesnt make it easier or less expensive :( )

The photographs on the company website suggest otherwise.

It depends which base shelf you buy - some you can use for electronics; others less so, to no, except for foam to manage vibrations & improve sound (see pics of ThomasOK's system)

tokenbrit wrote: ↑2021-08-30 19:36

FairPlayMotty wrote: ↑2021-08-30 18:11

Defender wrote: ↑2021-08-30 08:48 my understanding with the Harmoni Rack is that you can’t really use the base shelf for the a component to be placed upon. So in your case it would be a 3 level rack anyway (I know that doesnt make it easier or less expensive :( )

The photographs on the company website suggest otherwise.

It depends which base shelf you buy - some you can use for electronics; others less so, to no, except for foam to manage vibrations & improve sound (see pics of ThomasOK's system)

If I was buying a four shelf rack I'd ensure the four shelves were usable. The company homepage has three racks in the photograph, two have the base shelf being used, the other rack has one component on the top shelf.

FairPlayMotty wrote: ↑2021-08-30 20:25

tokenbrit wrote: ↑2021-08-30 19:36

FairPlayMotty wrote: ↑2021-08-30 18:11

The photographs on the company website suggest otherwise.

It depends which base shelf you buy - some you can use for electronics; others less so, to no, except for foam to manage vibrations & improve sound (see pics of ThomasOK's system)

If I was buying a four shelf rack I'd ensure the four shelves were usable. The company homepage has three racks in the photograph, two have the base shelf being used, the other rack has one component on the top shelf.

I believe it was/is(?) an option between usability & musically - it used to be the case that not having a component on the base shelf improved the musicality of the rack, so it could be a compromise between practicality & ultimate performance. I don't know if that's still the case with the latest shelf designs / base shelf upgrades. Maybe Tom, or someone else in the know can update. I do know that the foam on the base shelf made a surprising improvement...

tokenbrit wrote: ↑2021-08-30 20:46

FairPlayMotty wrote: ↑2021-08-30 20:25

tokenbrit wrote: ↑2021-08-30 19:36

It depends which base shelf you buy - some you can use for electronics; others less so, to no, except for foam to manage vibrations & improve sound (see pics of ThomasOK's system)

If I was buying a four shelf rack I'd ensure the four shelves were usable. The company homepage has three racks in the photograph, two have the base shelf being used, the other rack has one component on the top shelf.

it used to be the case that not having a component on the base shelf improved the musicality of the rack

Did anyone blind test that? I'm a Scot, we can find racks where all shelves are usable without a cost to the musicality :)

The english site seems to be out of date, on the swedish site there is only one ”bottom plate” (in compact and wide version) available.

On the ”bottom plate” you can place either an Oden or a Trud shelf. Trud is a new shelf that replaces the Tor and Mimer shelves.

There is also Myt which is a top shelf for the compact version that will fit a record player.

https://www.harmonihyllan.se/

Can’t find anything about placing components on the bottom shelf, but in the images the bottom shelf is empty.

I think bottom shelf can be used, but maybe only with Trud + thick bottom shelf? Check here: https://www.instagram.com/tonlaget/

They maybe want to clarify the websites and pics. I would expect a manufacturer to display accurate images of the product in use.

@bottomshelf you might look at:

https://harmonihyllan.com/schabrak.html

After recently discussing the bottom shelf of the Harmonihylla with Anders, I can confirm that with the exception of "Bord", all bottom shelves are now sold comprising of three parts, an upper part e.g. Trud or Oden, which a component can be placed on, a middle part for damping, and a lower base shelf. So, from now on, all of the shelves of HH can be used for components. Incidentally, for those upgrading to the new Trud-shelf (which is superior to Oden, Tor and Mimer K) and who have a Mimer K top shelf, that top shelf can now be re-used as the middle part (for damping) of the new best bottom shelf Schabrak II

PaulC wrote: ↑2021-11-01 13:43 After recently discussing the bottom shelf of the Harmonihylla with Anders, I can confirm that with the exception of "Bord", all bottom shelves are now sold comprising of three parts, an upper part e.g. Trud or Oden, which a component can be placed on, a middle part for damping, and a lower base shelf.

Paul,
thanks for sharing.
The question is if the three parts bottom shelf is even an improvement over the two parts bottom shelf when no component is placed on the bottom shelf. If this is the case then "Bord" would sound even better with the three parts bottom shelf.
Please, can you ask Anders about it?
Thanks

Matt

Whatever you do to the bottom shelf on Harmonihyllan always affects the whole rack and all the other shelves.

I haven't yet listened to Trud or Schabrak II.

Fredrik, Trud bettered my Mimer K top shelf. The music was just more fun with Trud. I am currently replacing all my Oden's with Trud and have ordered the base for Schabrak II and will re-use my Mimer K and current base
in order to build a Schabrak II base with the current base as the new upper layer. I will not have a component on this layer however. Anders recommended having the upper layer in order to protect the damping layer since nothing can come in contact with that layer. Regarding how this upper layer affects the whole rack and other shelves I cannot at this time comment, however I can experiment with and without the upper layer when I get all of the new parts and post my thoughts here.

Matt, I will ask Anders 👍

PaulC wrote: ↑2021-11-01 22:26 Matt, I will ask Anders 👍

Paul,

please can you also ask Anders if he tried shelves made from "panzerholz" or plywood?

Thank you

Matt

Spoke with Anders yesterday. The shelf that sits directly above the Schabrak II on the Harmonihylla has advantages and disadvantages. The advantages are that you get an extra shelf to place a component on and the shelf protects the aluminum shelf from coming on contact with something (e.g. cables) which is known to have a significant negative effect on the Harmonihylla's total performance. The disadvantage I imagine (since Anders didn't explicitly say so) is that the total performance of the Harmonihylla is in some degree negatively affected. I will get the parts I need to build a Schabrak II in the coming weeks. I will build it without a shelf directly above the aluminium shelf since I don't need a shelf there for a component.

Matt, I'm afraid I didn't ask about specific materials he has used, but if you are curious I suggest you write to Anders yourself. We spent much of the time we had discussing a comparison he had made between the new Klimax Radikal on my LP12 (Kore/Akito 3/Adikt) and the old Radikal on a Klimax LP12 (with Kandid). On a Sinatra track we listened to we both experienced a playfulness and interaction between the instruments on my LP12 with the new Klimax Radikal that wasn't at all obvious on the Klimax LP12 using the old Radikal.