Majik 109 - inner cable upgrade

Hardware and software, modifications and DIY

Moderator: Staff

Post Reply
Ferdydurke
Member
Member
Posts: 21
Joined: 2018-10-15 23:31
Location: Madrid

Majik 109 - inner cable upgrade

Post by Ferdydurke »

Hi folks

after following the upgrade path described here with great success
https://www.lejonklou.com/forum/viewtop ... 09+Upgrade
I'm considering another change to the original specs. Reason is that I have to change the 2K array as one of the super tweeters passed away (having severe overload problems in a totally unreliable spanish power grid...), and I wonder wether I should take it as an oportunity to change the inner cables for better ones.
Has anyone tried this out with his speakers, is it worth while or just voodoo?
Any advise highly welcome, saludos,
Ferdy
Kuzma TT | ZYX R100H | stst Agmen | AK/0 | ADS/0 | 6100D | Majik 109 | V200 & Audeze LCD2
Ferdydurke
Member
Member
Posts: 21
Joined: 2018-10-15 23:31
Location: Madrid

Re: Majik 109 - inner cable upgrade

Post by Ferdydurke »

Hi

Hard to believe that no one ever tried to focus on the inner cabling of speakers in a forum where every piece of equipment undergoes such a keen inspection... Or did I post in the wrong section? Maybe I should have posted it in "On the inside" but I don't know how to move it there. Or is it just an obsolete question to everyone here?

Saludos, Ferdy
Kuzma TT | ZYX R100H | stst Agmen | AK/0 | ADS/0 | 6100D | Majik 109 | V200 & Audeze LCD2
User avatar
ThomasOK
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 4358
Joined: 2007-02-02 18:41
Location: United States
Contact:

Re: Majik 109 - inner cable upgrade

Post by ThomasOK »

I have rewired the inside of the JBL 3677 speakers I used for a few years with Linn K400 speaker cable. I didn't do a before and after A/B comparison as I changed a few things at one time so I can't definitively claim it was an improvement. I think the most likely reason you haven't gotten a reply is that nobody has tried it on a Majik 109. I don't know what wire is inside there nor how the wiring harness is attached to the drivers and the crossover so it is impossible to say how difficult a task you might be setting for yourself. Linn generally does use musical internal wiring. That doesn't mean that you can't improve on it musically but it might not be that easy to do so. I would say that the majority of specialty cabling out there would make a difference but not an improvement.
The LP12 Whisperer
Manufacturer, Distributor, Retailer and above all lover of music.
Whatsmynaim
Active member
Active member
Posts: 198
Joined: 2019-10-29 23:55

Re: Majik 109 - inner cable upgrade

Post by Whatsmynaim »

I don't know much about this first hand but recall reading Lejonklou himself changed the cabling inside the Majik 109, and did solder the connections. It was only a slight performance upgrade so not really worth doing. Perhaps to disconnect and reconnect the quick connections to the speaker elements and maybe crossovers a few times, to remove possible oxidation and that will be just as good?

There's another thing though. A foam damping thing inside the speaker cabinet that needs to be in a certain position
for the bass to sound the best. That's seems like worth looking into and maybe other members of the forum
can chime in and tell you more about it. Then there's of course the torquing of the elements which is really important for getting the most out of any speaker. I bet the proper torque values are posted somewhere here in the forum.
Øyvind I
Member
Member
Posts: 38
Joined: 2018-12-12 15:59

Re: Majik 109 - inner cable upgrade

Post by Øyvind I »

There's another thing though. A foam damping thing inside the speaker cabinet that needs to be in a certain position
for the bass to sound the best. That's seems like worth looking into and maybe other members of the forum
can chime in and tell you more about it. Then there's of course the torquing of the elements which is really important for getting the most out of any speaker. I bet the proper torque values are posted somewhere here in the forum.
Hi, the foam damping would be of interest. I converted a set of mine this weekend ad these has been opened before. There are two parts, the grey plastic foam that comes from the "top of the speaker" and passes under the reflex port that appeared to be a it "just pushed in" and then there is the white foam and the positing of this. Should the foam "block" the passage towards the reflex port or should it be open? I will be back at the cottage where this system is next week and can try a few variables.
Ferdydurke
Member
Member
Posts: 21
Joined: 2018-10-15 23:31
Location: Madrid

Re: Majik 109 - inner cable upgrade

Post by Ferdydurke »

Thanks for sharing your ideas.
As I mentioned before, the 2k arry exchange will be executed by an official Linn technician so I'm save from committing any mischief... I'll ask him whether he recommends an upgrade of the cabling with Linn Speaker cables, but normally I find Linn retailers rather reluctant when it comes to changing the original specs...
On the other hand I know my speakers quite well from the inside as I changed the woofers (SEAS prestige series) for a pair of SEAS Excel woofers with very similar specs but far better performance a year ago. Interesting that you mention the damping foam; especially the more solid grey one wasn't in exact the same position in both speakers. Right now I placed them directly behind the bass reflex tube to give the utmost damping to the woofers that seemingly go much deeper than the original ones. And I will increase the amount of the white damping wool just to see whether this affects the low frequency energy, and how. I'll report, but the result could be quite different with the original woofers. As for the screws - I have them rather tight but could'nt say exactly how tight, having no torque wrench at hand. Really worth trying?
Kuzma TT | ZYX R100H | stst Agmen | AK/0 | ADS/0 | 6100D | Majik 109 | V200 & Audeze LCD2
User avatar
lejonklou
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 6524
Joined: 2007-01-30 10:38
Location: Sweden
Contact:

Re: Majik 109 - inner cable upgrade

Post by lejonklou »

Øyvind I wrote: 2021-02-12 10:06 There are two parts, the grey plastic foam that comes from the "top of the speaker" and passes under the reflex port that appeared to be a it "just pushed in"
I investigated this back when I had 109's. I also reported on my findings here on the forum, but the search function on phpBB3 is quite bad, so I don't know how easy it is to find those posts.

In any case, the grey foam should be away from the port, pushed against the filter on the rear.
User avatar
lejonklou
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 6524
Joined: 2007-01-30 10:38
Location: Sweden
Contact:

Re: Majik 109 - inner cable upgrade

Post by lejonklou »

Whatsmynaim wrote: 2021-02-12 06:05 don't know much about this first hand but recall reading Lejonklou himself changed the cabling inside the Majik 109, and did solder the connections.
Not quite correct, but I did change the internal speaker cabling on the pair of Katans I once owned and I also helped others when they did the same conversion on 242's and JBL 3677.

My conclusion is that K400 is a better cable than Linn's internal 2.5 mm2 wiring of a British cable brand, the name of which eludes me for the moment. They also don't pay attention to the direction of any of the cables inside the loudspeakers. The 2K array of 109 has an entirely different and much thinner cable, which is attached inside the array, ends with a connector in the other end and not easily replaced.

To complicate things, K400 really needs to be twisted exactly right and the two conductors need to be held together by just the right force (the designers of K400 got it exactly right, kudos to them). This is accomplished with the thick black jacket, but as this is virtually impossible to use inside a loudspeaker, one has to replace it with shrinking tube. And this tube should not squeeze too hard or too loose on that pair of conductors. If you don't get it right, the result of the conversion to K400 will not be fully musically convincing. I know I'm picky, but those I helped with this felt the same way. One speaker was rewired three times before the owner was fully satisfied.

In short: I don't recommend you change the internal wiring of 109's. As ThomasOK wrote, it's possible to improve it but it's not easy.
Errol
Member
Member
Posts: 15
Joined: 2019-07-30 15:55
Location: Finland

Re: Majik 109 - inner cable upgrade

Post by Errol »

lejonklou wrote: 2021-02-12 21:29
Øyvind I wrote: 2021-02-12 10:06 There are two parts, the grey plastic foam that comes from the "top of the speaker" and passes under the reflex port that appeared to be a it "just pushed in"
I investigated this back when I had 109's. I also reported on my findings here on the forum, but the search function on phpBB3 is quite bad, so I don't know how easy it is to find those posts.

In any case, the grey foam should be away from the port, pushed against the filter on the rear.
Hi,
this can be found here https://www.lejonklou.com/forum/viewtop ... a6092db7a0
- e -
sunbeamgls
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 1087
Joined: 2012-04-04 15:19
Location: North Wales
Contact:

Re: Majik 109 - inner cable upgrade

Post by sunbeamgls »

The 2K array is essentially a sealed unit. It has captive leads of thin wire that exit through a goo sealed hole only just slightly larger than the existing cables. These thin cables route around the drivers inside the unit and thicker cables would not fit in the space available.
Unless you're going to go with very thin cables of some exotic substance that's 100% proven to be a big improvement and you don't mind risking damaging the delicate drivers, I'd stay well away.
KSH/0; KEBox/2; 3x Tundra Stereo 2.5; PMC fact.12. Blogger. Exakt Design. SO measuring.
Ferdydurke
Member
Member
Posts: 21
Joined: 2018-10-15 23:31
Location: Madrid

Re: Majik 109 - inner cable upgrade

Post by Ferdydurke »

Thank you all for your kind recommendations.

I finally abondoned the idea of touching the inner cabling of the 109 and let my linn dealer do the repair of the broken super tweeter - changing at once both 2K arrays to prevent tonal inbalances (although they don't come as matched pair Linn recommended so).
The unfortunate accident turned out to be a great luck for me as the Linn dealer discovered that my speakers - bought as "active" with three pairs of active cards for 6100 - had never been converted internally to active by the original dealer. Never suspected that, and having no comparision I didn't know how much potential I was omitting by this odd double filtering. Now I know, and it's just stunning.
On the other hand: My "spanish" Linn dealer (actually a very nice german guy...) in Barcelona did a comparision between my 109 with upgraded SEAS Excel woofers and a pair of 109 original specs., all connected to an Linn EXAKT system. In his opinion listening to the original 109 is more fun, tunedem-wise, and he recommends reconverting to SEAS Prestige. Well, never did a direct comparision... Has anyone tried a forth-back-comparision?
Saludos from Madrid,
Ferdy
Kuzma TT | ZYX R100H | stst Agmen | AK/0 | ADS/0 | 6100D | Majik 109 | V200 & Audeze LCD2
User avatar
Matteo
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 913
Joined: 2018-01-25 14:12
Location: Milano, Italia

Re: Majik 109 - inner cable upgrade

Post by Matteo »

Ferdydurke wrote: 2021-03-23 18:04 Thank you all for your kind recommendations.

I finally abondoned the idea of touching the inner cabling of the 109 and let my linn dealer do the repair of the broken super tweeter - changing at once both 2K arrays to prevent tonal inbalances (although they don't come as matched pair Linn recommended so).
The unfortunate accident turned out to be a great luck for me as the Linn dealer discovered that my speakers - bought as "active" with three pairs of active cards for 6100 - had never been converted internally to active by the original dealer. Never suspected that, and having no comparision I didn't know how much potential I was omitting by this odd double filtering. Now I know, and it's just stunning.
On the other hand: My "spanish" Linn dealer (actually a very nice german guy...) in Barcelona did a comparision between my 109 with upgraded SEAS Excel woofers and a pair of 109 original specs., all connected to an Linn EXAKT system. In his opinion listening to the original 109 is more fun, tunedem-wise, and he recommends reconverting to SEAS Prestige. Well, never did a direct comparision... Has anyone tried a forth-back-comparision?
Saludos from Madrid,
Ferdy
Ola (again)!

I did the comparison (altough in a passive set-up) a couple of years ago and found the mod woofers more musical.

The original 109's have a thin bass.

M.
Ferdydurke
Member
Member
Posts: 21
Joined: 2018-10-15 23:31
Location: Madrid

Re: Majik 109 - inner cable upgrade

Post by Ferdydurke »

Hola Matteo, y gracie molto

yes, bass performance of the excel woofers is far superior to that of the prestige ones, but somehow more difficult to handle when you can‘t just pull them 20cm away from the back wall (mine have to be placed on a heavy side board with max. clearence to back wall of about 35cm...). But hey, there's still Space Optimization, and spending hours of measuring (and tricking its presettings...) I ended up with a very pleasing compromise; I wouldn't like to go without the better focussing, transperancy and air around every instrument or voice anymore; my concern was that I couldn't tell how much the crossover settings for the prestige woofer affect the tonal balance over the whole frequency range with the excel woofer. Maybe one day I'll buy another pair of 109 for further comparision... Now that I can enjoy them in real active configuration I'm just stunned about their potential - you really should listen to them activated - or better avoid it instead if you don't want to add another 4200 to your set up... ;-)

Saludos,
Ferdy
Kuzma TT | ZYX R100H | stst Agmen | AK/0 | ADS/0 | 6100D | Majik 109 | V200 & Audeze LCD2
User avatar
Matteo
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 913
Joined: 2018-01-25 14:12
Location: Milano, Italia

Re: Majik 109 - inner cable upgrade

Post by Matteo »

Ferdydurke wrote: 2021-03-25 12:36 Hola Matteo, y gracie molto

yes, bass performance of the excel woofers is far superior to that of the prestige ones, but somehow more difficult to handle when you can‘t just pull them 20cm away from the back wall (mine have to be placed on a heavy side board with max. clearence to back wall of about 35cm...). But hey, there's still Space Optimization, and spending hours of measuring (and tricking its presettings...) I ended up with a very pleasing compromise; I wouldn't like to go without the better focussing, transperancy and air around every instrument or voice anymore; my concern was that I couldn't tell how much the crossover settings for the prestige woofer affect the tonal balance over the whole frequency range with the excel woofer. Maybe one day I'll buy another pair of 109 for further comparision... Now that I can enjoy them in real active configuration I'm just stunned about their potential - you really should listen to them activated - or better avoid it instead if you don't want to add another 4200 to your set up... ;-)

Saludos,
Ferdy
;-)

Another 4200 is excluded (cost and SWMBO wise).

The only viable option (since years) is a 6100.

And yes, a couple of years ago, I did a comparison between passive 109s / 4200 and aktiv 109s / 6100 and both options were very musical. The 109s had the standard woofers though.

Ciao

M.
User avatar
Matteo
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 913
Joined: 2018-01-25 14:12
Location: Milano, Italia

Re: Majik 109 - inner cable upgrade

Post by Matteo »

Ferdydurke wrote: 2021-03-23 18:04 On the other hand: My "spanish" Linn dealer (actually a very nice german guy...) in Barcelona did a comparision between my 109 with upgraded SEAS Excel woofers and a pair of 109 original specs., all connected to an Linn EXAKT system. In his opinion listening to the original 109 is more fun, tunedem-wise, and he recommends reconverting to SEAS Prestige. Well, never did a direct comparision... Has anyone tried a forth-back-comparision?
Saludos from Madrid,
Ferdy
I had just read again this part of your post.

I suspect that this comparison is unfair, because in an Exakt configuration the digital crossovers are tailored on the "standard" 109's woofer.

M.
Ferdydurke
Member
Member
Posts: 21
Joined: 2018-10-15 23:31
Location: Madrid

Re: Majik 109 - inner cable upgrade

Post by Ferdydurke »

Hi Matteo

Unfair or not, that's what you get by changing the original configuration... Wether with digital EXAKT crossover or with the passive crossover in your 109 or with my active cards inside of the 6100... With different woofers you'll always have a certain mismatch; question is: how much does this affect the tonal balance of the whole speaker. The only way to mend this is by remeasuring and reeconstructing the passiv crossovers inside of the 109; I couldn't do this but there are specialists out there.
By the way: Going active with 6100 would probably be a bit disappointing for you considering the superior performance of the Akurate amps and diminishing the advantages of driving the 109 actively.

Un saludo,
Ferdy
Kuzma TT | ZYX R100H | stst Agmen | AK/0 | ADS/0 | 6100D | Majik 109 | V200 & Audeze LCD2
Discodave
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 349
Joined: 2017-05-18 14:50
Location: Belfast, Ireland

Re: Majik 109 - inner cable upgrade

Post by Discodave »

Hi guys, is this the mod here?

https://www.falconacoustics.co.uk/seas- ... eries.html

If so seems a lot cheaper than other sellers.

Cheers
LP12, Lingo 3, Cirkus/Kore, Tramp 2, Basik Plus Ania, Linto
Majik Ds, Kisto, Tundra 2.0, Majik 109
User avatar
Matteo
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 913
Joined: 2018-01-25 14:12
Location: Milano, Italia

Re: Majik 109 - inner cable upgrade

Post by Matteo »

Discodave wrote: 2021-03-26 05:55 Hi guys, is this the mod here?

https://www.falconacoustics.co.uk/seas- ... eries.html

If so seems a lot cheaper than other sellers.

Cheers
I paid 300€ for both woofers 3 years ago.

M.
Discodave
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 349
Joined: 2017-05-18 14:50
Location: Belfast, Ireland

Re: Majik 109 - inner cable upgrade

Post by Discodave »

So this is the right one Matteo?
LP12, Lingo 3, Cirkus/Kore, Tramp 2, Basik Plus Ania, Linto
Majik Ds, Kisto, Tundra 2.0, Majik 109
User avatar
Matteo
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 913
Joined: 2018-01-25 14:12
Location: Milano, Italia

Re: Majik 109 - inner cable upgrade

Post by Matteo »

Discodave wrote: 2021-03-26 07:29 So this is the right one Matteo?
Yes, it seems correct:

http://www.seas.no/index.php?option=com ... Itemid=246
Discodave
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 349
Joined: 2017-05-18 14:50
Location: Belfast, Ireland

Re: Majik 109 - inner cable upgrade

Post by Discodave »

Cheers lad. Thinking of going for it in the next few months, hopefully my dealer has no issues.
LP12, Lingo 3, Cirkus/Kore, Tramp 2, Basik Plus Ania, Linto
Majik Ds, Kisto, Tundra 2.0, Majik 109
Ferdydurke
Member
Member
Posts: 21
Joined: 2018-10-15 23:31
Location: Madrid

Re: Majik 109 - inner cable upgrade

Post by Ferdydurke »

Hi Discodave,

yes, this is the one; and the price seems to be very good, especially if you order from the UK. I bought mine in Spain 1,5 years ago for 284 € / pair. From inside the EU one of the best offers come from audiohobby.eu Talinn/Estonia, very reliable as far as I can tell.
Cheers, Ferdy

P.S. You better check the threads for 109 modification here before firing up the soldering iron and prepare for being treated as a heretic inside the more fundamentalistic part of the Linniverse...
Kuzma TT | ZYX R100H | stst Agmen | AK/0 | ADS/0 | 6100D | Majik 109 | V200 & Audeze LCD2
Discodave
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 349
Joined: 2017-05-18 14:50
Location: Belfast, Ireland

Re: Majik 109 - inner cable upgrade

Post by Discodave »

Cheers ferdy, but i will not be attempting anything lol. Will get my Linn dealer to do it.
LP12, Lingo 3, Cirkus/Kore, Tramp 2, Basik Plus Ania, Linto
Majik Ds, Kisto, Tundra 2.0, Majik 109
Ferdydurke
Member
Member
Posts: 21
Joined: 2018-10-15 23:31
Location: Madrid

Re: Majik 109 - inner cable upgrade

Post by Ferdydurke »

Hi Discodave,

there's a certain smell of heresy in it, hopefully they're not going to crucify him ... ;-)

But maybe your dealer has a second pair of 109 / original spec. and could offer you an audition / comparision with the modded 109. In that case I would be very pleased if you could let us know about your impressions.

Cheers, Ferdy
Kuzma TT | ZYX R100H | stst Agmen | AK/0 | ADS/0 | 6100D | Majik 109 | V200 & Audeze LCD2
Discodave
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 349
Joined: 2017-05-18 14:50
Location: Belfast, Ireland

Re: Majik 109 - inner cable upgrade

Post by Discodave »

Hi Ferdy
Lol no heresy, i promise.

Thats a good idea actually. Should ask him. Wont be anytime soon. But if i get it done and it can be facilitated then certainly I will post up :)
LP12, Lingo 3, Cirkus/Kore, Tramp 2, Basik Plus Ania, Linto
Majik Ds, Kisto, Tundra 2.0, Majik 109
Post Reply