Mounting Krystal MC on Ekos SE/1

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Defender
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Mounting Krystal MC on Ekos SE/1

Post by Defender »

I have some questions with respect to mounting a Krystal MC to an Ekos SE/1

I know there is less room for doing something wrong with the 3 screw mount but does the Krystal need to be pushed in one or the other direction to have the perfect geometry in case no protractor available?

I have two types of headshell screws a longer one which is about 8mm long and a shorter one which is about 5mm long - when measuring those the 3 long ones are 1.41g in total the shorter ones are 1.14g in total that is 0.27g difference (for all three screws). I know it shouldn’t make a difference as thats compensated for with adjusting the tracking force. Or does it make a difference with respect to the resonance frequency?
Ron the Mon stated he is using Aluminium Headshell screws - is the advantage coming from the lower weight or from the material? Does anyone tried longer or shorter headshell screws or aluminium screws with Krystal and Ekos SE/1?
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Re: Mounting Krystal MC on Ekos SE/1

Post by beck »

In my experience the weight at the headshell makes a big difference. Less is better as long as the arm can be balanced and set to the correct weight using the counterweight.
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Re: Mounting Krystal MC on Ekos SE/1

Post by ThomasOK »

I believe I use the shorter ones but I'm not positive of the sizes. With cartridges like the Krystal and Kandid I always use the shortest screws that fully engage the threads in the cartridge. By that I mean I want the screw to make it all the way to the bottom of the hole in the cartridge with as little sticking out as possible. If it doesn't quite make it to the bottom of the hole that is OK but I wouldn't want a situation where I had a screw so short it was only engaging half the threads in the cartridge. Longer screws would be used on an arm with a thicker headshell than what is used on Linn tonearms.
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Post by Ron The Mon »

Defender wrote: 2020-12-09 11:47 I have some questions with respect to mounting a Krystal MC to an Ekos SE/1

I know there is less room for doing something wrong with the 3 screw mount but does the Krystal need to be pushed in one or the other direction to have the perfect geometry in case no protractor available?

I have two types of headshell screws a longer one which is about 8mm long and a shorter one which is about 5mm long - when measuring those the 3 long ones are 1.41g in total the shorter ones are 1.14g in total that is 0.27g difference (for all three screws). I know it shouldn’t make a difference as thats compensated for with adjusting the tracking force. Or does it make a difference with respect to the resonance frequency?
Ron The Mon stated he is using Aluminium Headshell screws - is the advantage coming from the lower weight or from the material? Does anyone tried longer or shorter headshell screws or aluminium screws with Krystal and Ekos SE/1?
Defender,
Please; DO NOT USE ALUMINUM SCREWS ON YOUR KRYSTAL.

There are two reports here of aluminum screws used with threaded inserts and ruined the inserts. Stripping an aluminum screw into tapped aluminum is also bad. It is difficult to measure and match the exact thread pitch of such a small screw or insert. Regardless of metal used, the screw should easily travel in and out of an insert (or nut) with no resistance. In addition, it is very easy to over-torque an aluminum screw into a stronger metal, also causing damage.

Were your two screws (8mm & 5mm) supplied with your Krystal? If so, use them. My opinion is you have an expensive new product with a warranty. I wouldn't do anything to violate a manufacturer's guarantee.

However, all other aspects being equal, a lighter screw always yields better performance. When I was using a Klyde, I used the Rega "Cartridge Torque Wrench" and a digital scale. I experimented with several near identical weight and length stainless steel screws. Different types sounded "different" but shorter, lighter screws always sounded better. I then trimmed two screws flush to the nut and voila!, that was best.

To shorten screws, lightly tighten a screw in your cartridge and use a Sharpie marker to color excess threads. After removing screw, put two nuts on it and cut with a screw cutter. Buff the end with a fine-wire wheel while the screw is in a vice. Final buff with a Dremel cloth pad. Those two steps are cosmetic. The final step is as you remove the nuts, they will "clean" the threads. Do not use a wire wheel on the threads as this will reduce material, compromising strength.

The reason for the improvement is you are improving the tonearm, not the cartridge. Using source-first logic, a better tonearm result is preferred to improved cartridge. This is also why using "alternative", "better", cartridge alignment protractors worsen the music. The lesser the cartridge overhang, the better the tune. It always amazes me that most "audiophiles" love specifications, but out of context with other specifications. The search for the perfect alignment at the expense of worse effective mass. I say listen, and use what sounds more musical.

Go right now and pick up a hammer. Hold it with your arm extended horizontally. Move the hammer in a figure-eight motion as quickly as you can. Then invert the hammer, holding it by the head. Do the same exercise. The hammer has not been reduced in weight yet is much easier to move. This is what's happening in a tonearm as it is rebalanced and equal tracking force reapplied. It is my opinion this is why less bias is required in lighter cartridges and tonearms, and tonearms with lower bearing friction.

The big brother to the Krystal is the Kandid. One feature of the Kandid is a plastic yoke screw; "Linn has also kept the weight of the cartridge down by using a plastic front yoke screw rather than metal. As well as allowing the counterweight to be moved closer to the bearing point which gives a quicker reaction to changes in the vinyl, using a plastic screw eliminates any magnetic interference to the delicate coils in the cartridge."

It is not just that the Kandid is 1.3 grams lighter than the Krystal, but all the weight reduced is at the furthest extremity of the arm and cartridge.

Lastly, the torque used in a Krystal that is the most musical would probably strip or break off the head of an aluminum screw. It would be a good experiment to compare aluminum screws at a less musical torque to stainless steel torqued best. There is a large weight difference in the case of a Krystal as it has three screws. Which factor results in better musical reproduction?

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Re: Mounting Krystal MC on Ekos SE/1

Post by Defender »

Thank you for all your feedback ... especially Ron the Mon for taking time to answer that extensively.
Actually the Krystal came with the longer 8mm screws but when I compared the screws to the ones which have been left over from taking my Arkiv B off I realised they are shorter 5mm ones so I have both choices.
Thank you for making sure that Aluminium is not the way to go and thank you for sharing your experience - always fun to read.
BTW Thomas‘ torques for the Krystal are below 0,5Nm that should be not to much for a aluminium screw.

Your anology might also explain why Linn is not using longer arms.
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Re: Mounting Krystal MC on Ekos SE/1

Post by Defender »

is there any opinion out there if braiding the wires of the left channel and also at the right channel has an effect?
if yes should in the end both individually braided channels braided together or better left separated?
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Re: Mounting Krystal MC on Ekos SE/1

Post by ThomasOK »

There is a theory that braiding would be electrically better but I believe Fredrik found it to be less musical. I don't braid them.
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Re: Mounting Krystal MC on Ekos SE/1

Post by beck »

Defender wrote: 2020-12-10 16:38 is there any opinion out there if braiding the wires of the left channel and also at the right channel has an effect?
if yes should in the end both individually braided channels braided together or better left separated?
Do not do it! It kills music. Keep all four as separated as possible not touching the headshell or armtube. That to me gives the most musical signal.
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Re: Mounting Krystal MC on Ekos SE/1

Post by Defender »

usually you braid the cables for lower inductance - we did that at Siemens with every more than one cable which run together and there is the right or left hand rule. you point thump into the direction of the signal/energy flow and braid them according the direction which your other 4 fingers go - but I cant remember if its left or right hand anymore 😢
Thomas is torque for the Krystal and Ekos 2 the same value like for Krystal and Ekos SE/1 (which you gave me)

thank you beck our posts overlapped - means I will skip the idea of braiding

... however I like the feedback in this discussion
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Re: Mounting Krystal MC on Ekos SE/1

Post by beck »

I know it has been used a lot and is still used by “new” Linn.

I tried it once on my Sondek ac motor and went back immediately to separated wires. Some still prefer braided. Not me!
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Re: Mounting Krystal MC on Ekos SE/1

Post by Defender »

yes I see it very often on the Kandit - hence my question
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Re: Mounting Krystal MC on Ekos SE/1

Post by beck »

Defender wrote: 2020-12-10 20:57 yes I see it very often on the Kandit - hence my question
To me it moves the Sondek sound more in the direction of digital.......
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Re: Mounting Krystal MC on Ekos SE/1

Post by Defender »

mmh now I got confused and sorry for that basic question

I was checking the connection of a Krystal to the Ekos arm. The Krystal has color marking on the pins but that doesn’t help too much if you dont know to which pin they have to go on the arm. I got even more confused when I saw the output wiring of the Kandit is completely different to the Krystal. Where the Krystal has the blue pin the Kandit has the red pin - where the Krystal has the white pin the Kandit has the green pin that means left and right channel swapped and + and - swapped.
In the end it doesnt matter if you know where the colors need to go on the arm pins.

the below sketch shows the arm laying on the back
the |‘s intent to show the wall area of the headshell and
the *‘s show the finger lift for the headshell.
The white one is the most difficult cable to connect due to tiny space in the headshell corner the green cable should be the one easiest to connect.

Is that the right way of connecting the colors to the arm pins?
C7F90F24-C4EF-4A7D-98D3-FCDC76DAAC66.jpeg
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Re: Mounting Krystal MC on Ekos SE/1

Post by beck »

As far as I can see it matches my Ekos1. I think you got it right......
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Re: Mounting Krystal MC on Ekos SE/1

Post by Defender »

thank you beck you are always a big help

just an update on the screws: I used the 5mm screws
From starting to grab there are 4,25 turns until they are hand tight which is about 3mm.
The 3rd screw which makes sure the overhang is right is absolutely no issue.
The 2 other screws dont fill the thread completely meaning if you would use the 8mm ones it should be like Ron the Mon said - plano with the end of the thread or maybe 1mm looking out.

I used the 5mm ones as I was confident the 4.5turns can handle the lower than 0.5Nm for the Krystal but I would say do on your own risk it might be too borderline for some of you.

What do you think?

Linn is nice in marking (stamping) the tags there is a 1.0mm diameter side and a 1.2mm side the 1.2mm goes to the Krystal the 1.0mm diameter to the arm so I hope I don't have to worry about cable direction.

However you cant trust that the color marking of the tags is always the same - I have ones where the colored side need to go to the MC and others where the colored side need to go to the arm but the size stamped on the connector makes sure you do it right (mine are one side color and other side grey/black)
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Re: Mounting Krystal MC on Ekos SE/1

Post by ThomasOK »

Yes, same torque on Ekos 2 as Ekos SE. You have the headshell wiring diagram correct.
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Re: Mounting Krystal MC on Ekos SE/1

Post by Defender »

thank you for all your help - this is a wonderfull forum
my LP12 is almost ready I mounted the Ekos 2 for now to be able to enjoy the upgrade steps in small pieces - than Ekos2 to Ekos SE/1 upgrade later Radikal and Karousel and with that I finally get back to an all original LP12 and replacing the Greenstreet Audio Keel clone for a real Linn Keel.

Btw the Krystal needed to be pushed all the way to the left to have it fit with the Linn protractor.
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Arm Hight

Post by Defender »

how have you set up your arm hight - is it absolutely parallel or slightly higher at the back?
I find it very difficult to see if its perfectly parallel as it depends very much from where you look.
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Re: Mounting Krystal MC on Ekos SE/1

Post by dasher »

Hi Defender

The way that I do it is to usr on of my heavier (thicker) vinyls and the look across the disc so that the far side appears level with the side that you are viewing from. To see this I look through the gap between the arm and the vinyl. I then carefully move the arm to set it parallel to the vinyl, all the time looking through the gap to ensure that the eye is watching the far side of the vinyl. If you set it parallel for the thickest vinyl then the headshell will be slightly lower when playing lighter (thinner) discs.I find that the VTA is preferable this way (arm either parallel running down to the headshell end). If you have an old vinyl thence trick that I have found is to find a cheap "Bic" pen and lay it on the vinyl.The side of the pen usually just fits in the gap between the vinyl and the underside of the arm! It is cartridge dependent but it often works!
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Re: Mounting Krystal MC on Ekos SE/1

Post by Freddy »

I finally got my Krystal after a some wait. Very useful information here but still wondering about some things. Is there a direction on the cables? One end has color coding and the other end is black. Should the colored end be attached to the arm or the other way around? Torque 0.4 Nm on Ekos2?
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Re: Mounting Krystal MC on Ekos SE/1

Post by Defender »

the good thing is Linn lets you connect it only one way the connectors have different diameters - you will see it when you unpack them

black goes to the arm
colored to the cartridge
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Re: Mounting Krystal MC on Ekos SE/1

Post by Freddy »

Defender wrote: 2021-03-13 21:11 the good thing is Linn lets you connect it only one way the connectors have different diameters - you will see it when you unpack them
Thanks! Krystal is playing now! Installation was quite easy. Had to turn it all the way to the right to make it fit the Protractor. Very happy with how it plays music.
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Re: Mounting Krystal MC on Ekos SE/1

Post by Defender »

was the same for me at the EKOS 2 I have the Krystal on. needed to turn the side with the connections/the back of the cartridge as much as possible to the right.
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Re: Mounting Krystal MC on Ekos SE/1

Post by dasher »

Defender wrote: 2021-03-15 22:58 was the same for me at the EKOS 2 I have the Krystal on. needed to turn the side with the connections/the back of the cartridge as much as possible to the right.
Do you have a picture of this that you could share? I'm thinking of a Krystal for my Ekos 2 also. I'm nit sure about what is meant by 'as much as possible to the right' - are you not running the front of the cartridge parallel to the front of the headshell?

Did you bend the tags on the flying leads?

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Re: Mounting Krystal MC on Ekos SE/1

Post by Defender »

as you have the 3 screws it should work directly - however when checking mine with the protractor I realized I had to turn the Krystal clockwise as much as the 3 screws allow it to make it sit perfect. On a photo you wouldn’t see much of it as its probably only 1mm difference.


No need for bending the tags.

you can see it the best on the picture of the headshell from above the 3rd screw is not centered but lightly decentered to the right side
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