Bass problem with DS vs. LP12

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dvdr
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Bass problem with DS vs. LP12

Post by dvdr »

Sorry to bother you with yet another question, but my upgrade to Klimax 320a speakers, combined with two Akurate subs presents me with a huge problem regarding bass. I should add, that my listening room (5.1 x 4.9 meters) is acoustically treated with 4 ASC basstraps on the rear wall and 4 bass foam absorbers on the front, so I got reverb times in the bass realm covered pretty well.

What poses a huge problem though is, when playing the same music from my DS and my LP12, Bass from the LP12 is annoyingly too loud. Musical balance is completely off the charts, you just can’t listen to it.

Reason for this is the space optimization on the DS. I adjusted the subwoofer levels to match the 320a speakers by first measuring frequency response and then fine-tuning it by ear and then creating a „space“ profile. So, when switching over to analog gear, of course all the bass equalization of the DS Is lost (this is no Urika II/Exakt system).

I would not have thought, that in an acoustically treated room these space optimization settings still might have such a huge impact. I thought, it might be more some sort of fine-tuning, but switching from digital to analog, as I said, bass response is out of bounds!

So, please help me out here: do you see any solution?

Thanks for reading through this extensive rambling and helping me along with some suggestions...
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springwood64
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Re: Bass problem with DS vs. LP12

Post by springwood64 »

Perhaps tune your speaker positions using the LP12 instead of the DS. Tune first with subs turned off, then when the speaker positions are optimised, tune the subs.
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Re: Bass problem with DS vs. LP12

Post by dasher »

I too have a mixed system, with 'Space' available on the DS but not on the LP12 and I added 2 x Sizmiks to my Espeks.

I handled the issue in exactly the same way as Pete describes above. Tune the system with the LP12 and the subs 'off'; and then bring the subs 'on'. Get it so that the extension is as you want it, but err on the minimal. When you think that you have it right, take it back a little - as 'right' will probably be too much! Once happy then set up the DS in "Space", with subs.

To be honest, I managed to refine mine to the point where I no longer use 'space'. My main system (the one with Espeks and Subs) is not "Exakt". Pre-amp is a Kisto and the subs are fed from there and initially mixed in the Kisto and refined at the sub itself.

This was not a quick fix but once finalised I have not had to touch it since. The absolute main thing is to think of the subs as a bass extension and not a bass boost.
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Tendaberry
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Re: Bass problem with DS vs. LP12

Post by Tendaberry »

Which DS/DSM do you have? One idea would be to digitalize (setting in Konfig) the LP12 signal so that you can use Space Optimization for the LP12 as well.
But I agree, as the others have suggested, the first step should be fine-tuning the speakers and then the subs using the LP12 as a source.
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Re: Bass problem with DS vs. LP12

Post by dvdr »

Thanks for pointing out the order to include the subs. (Btw.: before „space“ existed, I already had optimized positions for my Akurate 212/sub combo, so this might be a starting point for the subs).
I already look at the sub as extensions and not a bass boost - so I also will look into the options of crossover frequencies.
The „Klimaxed“ 320a offer 50/80/100, the Akurate 55/85/130, so I also do have options, when the 320a are properly positioned to better avoid exciting resonances in the room (mine are the typical ones around 60 Hz) induced by either the 320a or the subs (positioning of the subs is more limited than positioning of the main speakers, as you surely will understand).

Any suggestions/experiences from your setups as to crossover frequencies?
Tendaberry wrote: 2020-11-28 11:51 One idea would be to digitalize (setting in Konfig) the LP12 signal...
I have a Klimax DS/0 Renew and a Uphorik phonostage - so no digitizing (unless, there is a Analog->Digital->UPnP „streaming“ converter of highest quality to „feed“ the LP12 into the LAN ;-) )

Have a great and „musical“ weekend, everyone!
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V.A.MKD
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Re: Bass problem with DS vs. LP12

Post by V.A.MKD »

Tendaberry wrote: 2020-11-28 11:51 Which DS/DSM do you have? One idea would be to digitalize (setting in Konfig) the LP12 signal so that you can use Space Optimization for the LP12 as well.
But I agree, as the others have suggested, the first step should be fine-tuning the speakers and then the subs using the LP12 as a source.
+1 and if I my suggest when you fine tune speakers as first step ... put out subs from the room, they can make lot of influence on this first step. Than second step ...
Last edited by V.A.MKD on 2020-11-29 11:39, edited 1 time in total.
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Tendaberry
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Re: Bass problem with DS vs. LP12

Post by Tendaberry »

dvdr wrote: 2020-11-28 12:11
Tendaberry wrote: 2020-11-28 11:51 One idea would be to digitalize (setting in Konfig) the LP12 signal...
I have a Klimax DS/0 Renew and a Uphorik phonostage - so no digitizing (unless, there is a Analog->Digital->UPnP „streaming“ converter of highest quality to „feed“ the LP12 into the LAN ;-) )

Have a great and „musical“ weekend, everyone!
There's a setting called "digital features" that you can switch on/off, but that's only for the DSM's. So unfortunately, you'll have to solve it through the positioning.
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