New firmware for DS: Cara

[Music Lover]

Gents, anybody else tried the new Beta, released yesterday?
I uploaded it on the lunch today and it sound bassier, more upfront&dynamic but slightly less musical than the best firmware Bute DS 1.2-0.6 (dont like the present 0.9 at all)
The changes in tune is small, the changes in the sound is bigger.
It has a Naim feeling over it, more impressive/in your face but less controlled.



Cara Beta pack also consist of
- new Linn GUI (just small changes)
- Kinsky Desktop (great interface, some small bugs)

[Nicolav]

Gents, anybody else tried the new Beta, released yesterday?
I uploaded it on the lunch today and it sound bassier, more upfront&dynamic but slightly less musical than the best firmware Bute DS 1.2-0.6 (dont like the present 0.9 at all)
The changes in tune is small, the changes in the sound is bigger.
It has a Naim feeling over it, more impressive/in your face but less controlled.



Cara Beta pack also consist of
- new Linn GUI (just small changes)
- Kinsky Desktop (great interface, some small bugs)

I'ave already tried the alpha release of Cara on ADS but I don't liked very much. I'ave the same impression on sound: very "big" and dinamic but much less controlled than Bute 0.9, not relaxing at all and less musical! :)
If Cara beta is slightly less musical of Bute 0.6 then it should be better than Bute 0.9!
I'll try soon the beta on KDS and I'll tell you my impressions.

[jajo]

Funny, I thought Cara was better. Perhaps because I am using the 0.9 firmware to my ADS. I am currently back on bute because I couldn't control the DS from my iPhone with Plugplayer anymore. But will a downgrade to 0.6 improve the sound on the ADS?

/ Jacob

[Music Lover]

But will a downgrade to 0.6 improve the sound on the ADS?

Not sure, never tried any SW on Akurate. Just on KDS.

[Nicolav]

Tried Cara on KDS.
It's less musical than both bute 0.9 and 0.6 although the sound is more fuller and bassy ma less detailed. The listening is generally less involving and interesting, and also the instruments don't seem play full together . But it's yet a beta so I hope it become better with time!
I like the new features of cara but I would like them to be accompanied by the best musical performance.

[Nicolav]

Maybe a silly question.
Anyone as noticed a lightly worse tune going back from Cara to Bute?

I'll try to explain better: Bute 0.9 sound worse after previous upgrade to Cara? Is just my suggestion or a real changement? Maybe (KDS is on since a month and a half) some fluctuation of the tune during burn in could be the cause of this?

[sommerfee]

Bute 0.9 sound worse after previous upgrade to Cara?

When I reflashed back to Bute on my Sneaky DS it was the same as it was before.

But how did you have flashed to Cara? When you have used the automatic (internet) update the so called fallback firmware was updated to Cara, too, and is still on Cara when reflashing to Bute.

From my understanding, the fallback firmware should not affect the normal operation at all (and therefore couldn't make any difference in sound or tune-dem), but one never knows...

Maybe (KDS is on since a month and a half) some fluctuation of the tune during burn in could be the cause of this?

I think this is a more probable explanation. Or did some of your settings (e.g. Buffer Padding) have changed?

Axel

[sommerfee]

Just updated my Sneaky DS from Cara 3.1.14 to 3.1.16 and this was a positive surprise!

While the development version sounded quite unlistenable to me (since out-of-tune, but hey, these were only development versions), the latest beta version 3.1.14 was good, but only if the internal volume control was on. When it was off it was notable worse in tune, so I left the volume control on and used volume 80 which does not change the digital signal before passing it to the D/A converter.

With Beta 3.1.16 it is ok without volume control again, maybe even slightly better as with volume control on.

So everyone who was disappointed by the Cara firmware before should IMHO give the new version a try.

Axel

[Nicolav]

Ok I've tried Cara 3.1.16 today and yes, there are slight improvements of the tune but not in sound although this is less important for me.
But... honestly I can't live with it. It's a pity because the software seems pretty stable and both interface and new functions are very nice.

At the time for me the best firm is yet the Bute 1.2-0.9, maybe 0.6 is slight more in tune but the 0.9 have a nice sound too!

Cara sound is too much heavy on the bass and overall "raw" but more serious is that the pace is fairly uncoordinated, vague and instruments are poorly separate. This is a truly "crime" for a great source like the DS.

Obviously all IHMO.

[Music Lover]

Ok I've tried Cara 3.1.16 today and yes, there are slight improvements of the tune but not in sound although this is less important for me.

Compared with what?
With Cara 3.1.14 or Bute version XXX?

Upgraded from Cara 3.1.14 to .16 today and I'm quite surpriced of the difference in both sound and tune.
On my KDS; Less dynamics/bass, less details/separation. Like a blanket was put over the speakers or if you downgrade from active to passive...
Same with the music and feeling but the difference is a LOT smaller.
The LoFi also makes the reproduction a wall of sounds so it's harder to hear what's going on in the music --> more difficult to understand the music.
30min and I like to turn down the volyme, NOT good!
Normally I increase it over time...

Not impossible my feb 2008 KDS behave differently compared with your 1.5months old unit...

[vicdiaz]

Guys, the change you've noticed its a bug in the FPGA code in which left and right channels get switched.

http://forums.linn.co.uk/bb/showthread.php?tid=2934

[Music Lover]

Guys, the change you've noticed its a bug in the FPGA code in which left and right channels get switched.

http://forums.linn.co.uk/bb/showthread.php?tid=2934

I don't evaluate stereo perspective Vic as that isn't that important for me.
Changing L with R isn't (sadly) changing my impression of the new SW.
(tested swopping L/R in the past and tested it again minutes ago)

AC/DC is still dragging their feet's in "Come and get it" and Tracy C is less desperate in "Why".

[Nicolav]

Ok I've tried Cara 3.1.16 today and yes, there are slight improvements of the tune but not in sound although this is less important for me.

Compared with what?
With Cara 3.1.14 or Bute version XXX?

Upgraded from Cara 3.1.14 to .16 today and I'm quite surpriced of the difference in both sound and tune.
On my KDS; Less dynamics/bass, less details/separation. Like a blanket was put over the speakers or if you downgrade from active to passive...
Same with the music and feeling but the difference is a LOT smaller.
The LoFi also makes the reproduction a wall of sounds so it's harder to hear what's going on in the music --> more difficult to understand the music.
30min and I like to turn down the volyme, NOT good!
Normally I increase it over time...

Not impossible my feb 2008 KDS behave differently compared with your 1.5months old unit...

Compared with Cara 3.1.14.
3.1.16 have slightly better tune than 3.1.14 but I haven't made a direct comparision so it could be an improvement due to burn in progression of my KDS (3.1.14 tried two week ago).
Generally I agree with your impression on Cara: the tune is letterally destroyed, impossible to listen more than one day! Whenever I'ave tried Cara always I'm back soon to Bute.

[sommerfee]

So it seems that the new version is good for Sneaky DS's but not for Klimax DS's!? On my Sneaky it's definitely better than the last Bute firmware (which was slightly out-of-tune), at least when using default settings.

[Music Lover]

So it seems that the new version is good for Sneaky DS's but not for Klimax DS's!? On my Sneaky it's definitely better than the last Bute firmware (which were slightly out-of-tune), at least when using default settings.

Hmmm, so the Cara 16 is better than Cara 14 on your SDS.
Last Bute was .09, ever tried .06?
On my KDS, 09 was not as good as 06

[sommerfee]

Last Bute was .09, ever tried .06?
On my KDS, 09 was not as good as 06

Same on my SDS. It seems that Cara isn't fine tuned yet for all kind of DS!?

[vicdiaz]

The weird thing is that if you ask Linn they say that not changes affecting affecting musicality, tune, PRat or whatever have been done...

:roll:

[Music Lover]

The weird thing is that if you ask Linn they say that not changes affecting affecting musicality, tune, PRat or whatever have been done...

:roll:

Officially yes.
Have been like this since the Unidisk SW's.

I can understand (even if I don't agree with their policy) that Linn try to downplay the impact on small items that is hard to explain.
Their outstanding new technology, CD --> DS, Lingo -->Radikal, makes it clear for me that Linn know exactly what matters, how to do it and also that multiple very small improvements here and there all contribute

[Nicolav]

I'ave tried Bute 0.6 again and yes it's a bit more musical than 0.9 but... I realized that both plugplayer (only a track at once) and songbook is unusable with 0.6. It only work correctly with LinnGui! :| Can anyone confirm this please?

[Music Lover]

I'ave tried Bute 0.6 again and yes it's a bit more musical than 0.9 ...

Just out of interest, if 0.6 is a BIT more musical how do you describe the difference 0.6 vs Cara 14 and 0.6 vs Cara 16?

[Nicolav]

I'ave tried Bute 0.6 again and yes it's a bit more musical than 0.9 ...

Just out of interest, if 0.6 is a BIT more musical how do you describe the difference 0.6 vs Cara 14 and 0.6 vs Cara 16?

To my ears both version of Cara are much less musical than Bute 0.6. Both pace and pitch are really destroyed and music is very difficult to follow, very tiring. Maybe Cara 16 is just a bit better than 14 so it's could be hoping for the future...

Between Bute 0.6 and 0.9 there are much less difference. 0.9 is less tuneful but not too much, I can live with it.

In the first post you say that Cara 14 is slightly less musical than Bute 0.6, so you mean that for you Bute 0.9 is less musical than Cara 14?

[sommerfee]

I realized that both plugplayer (only a track at once) and songbook is unusable with 0.6. It only work correctly with LinnGui! :| Can anyone confirm this please?

I cannot confirm this (since I have neither a Mac nor an iPhone), but there were some small UPnP interface changes from Bute 07/2008 (=1.2-0.6 on Klimax DS) to Bute 10/2008 (=1.2-0.9 on Klimax DS), e.g. the version number of the "Media" service (which is responsible for handling the playlist inside the DS) has increased from 1 to 2. So if PlugPlayer or Songbook rely on the newest Bute interface, they could fail with Bute 1.2-0.6.

I have downgraded from Cara to Bute 07/2008 as well and have no problems using Leia DS. But Leia DS is even able to handle Auskerry devices. :mrgreen:

BTW: To configure Bute 07/2008 you need the corresponding LinnConfig which is version 1.3-0.3.

Axel

[Music Lover]

I'ave tried Bute 0.6 again and yes it's a bit more musical than 0.9 ...

Just out of interest, if 0.6 is a BIT more musical how do you describe the difference 0.6 vs Cara 14 and 0.6 vs Cara 16?

To my ears both version of Cara are much less musical than Bute 0.6. Both pace and pitch are really destroyed and music is very difficult to follow, very tiring. Maybe Cara 16 is just a bit better than 14 so it's could be hoping for the future...

Between Bute 0.6 and 0.9 there are much less difference. 0.9 is less tuneful but not too much, I can live with it.

In the first post you say that Cara 14 is slightly less musical than Bute 0.6, so you mean that for you Bute 0.9 is less musical than Cara 14?

Your observations are very interesting as you have a new KDS and I have an old unit.
To me Bute 06 and Cara 14 are closer and Cara 14 is relatively good. So good that I used that many weeks despite the small decrease in tune due to the massive improvement in sound.
Both Bute 09 and even more so Cara 16 are a lot less easy to live with!
That is in my system and using my ears. 8)

Remember that a small difference for you can be larger for me and the opposite, but only one can be best! No doubt that both of us prefer 06. As others that have tried…

[Nicolav]

I realized that both plugplayer (only a track at once) and songbook is unusable with 0.6. It only work correctly with LinnGui! :| Can anyone confirm this please?

I cannot confirm this (since I have neither a Mac nor an iPhone), but there were some small UPnP interface changes from Bute 07/2008 (=1.2-0.6 on Klimax DS) to Bute 10/2008 (=1.2-0.9 on Klimax DS), e.g. the version number of the "Media" service (which is responsible for handling the playlist inside the DS) has increased from 1 to 2. So if PlugPlayer or Songbook rely on the newest Bute interface, they could fail with Bute 1.2-0.6.

I have downgraded from Cara to Bute 07/2008 as well and have no problems using Leia DS. But Leia DS is even able to handle Auskerry devices. :mrgreen:

BTW: To configure Bute 07/2008 you need the corresponding LinnConfig which is version 1.3-0.3.

Axel

Thanks for the answer Axel.
Maybe I should be reflash Bute 1.2-0.6 using LinnConfig 1.3-0.3?
Tried, not working yet with PP and SB. :(

[Nicolav]

Your observations are very interesting as you have a new KDS and I have an old unit.
To me Bute 06 and Cara 14 are closer and Cara 14 is relatively good. So good that I used that many weeks despite the small decrease in tune due to the massive improvement in sound.
Both Bute 09 and even more so Cara 16 are a lot less easy to live with!
That is in my system and using my ears. 8)

Remember that a small difference for you can be larger for me and the opposite, but only one can be best! No doubt that both of us prefer 06. As others that have tried…

Are you saying that my "new" Klimax DS also should sound better with Cara 14 once burned in? At the moment it runs 24/24 for 2 months.