Netgear Switch: GS108T v?

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tokenbrit
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Netgear Switch: GS108T v?

Post by tokenbrit »

Not sure whether this is better posted here for hardware, or in the HAKAI category for 'things digital'... see how it goes here:

The original recommendation and perceived wisdom from the now defunkt Linn forum was that the GS108T was the most musical generally available switch, and that adding a FRIWO power supply only improved matters. Please correct if I recall wrongly, but I believe that was specifically the GS108T v1. This version is now superseded by the v2 or -200NAS in North America...

I seem to recall that the thread(s) on the Linn forum did compare GS108T against other Netgear switches including, from memory, the 105 and, maybe, other versions of the 108...

Does anyone have access to the original list of switches, and/or comparison & hierarchy of Netgear switches below GS108T (v1?)? Has anyone directly compared GS108Tv1 against GS108T-200, or against the unmanaged GS108? I am curious whether I should be searching out a good used v1, getting a new (or lightly used) -200NAS, or saving ~$50 by sticking with my unmanaged 108. Anyone know how much of a musical improvement I can expect with either version of GS108T over the GS108?

Or should I just spend the $50 on the Supra USB cable for the HAKAI DAC ... or a couple of LPs instead? :)
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Re: Netgear Switch: GS108T v?

Post by Defender »

Hi Tokenbrit,

there is a thread called Routers and Switches in which Paolo from Italy made the following statement:
"The best one has been GS108T-200" I know ThomasOK is also using this one.

However there are some people (over at the Naim forume) who like a dedicated switch from Cisco the WS-C2960-8TC Catalyst even more. This is not the Gbit version and only available used.
I tried the Gbit version of it which is called WS-C2960G-8TC Catalyst which you dont have to buy as the GS108T-200 is simply better. But I didnt had a chance to compare it with the recommended WS-C2960-8TC (non Gbit).
tokenbrit
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Re: Netgear Switch: GS108T v?

Post by tokenbrit »

Thanks for the reminder, Defender. I had completely forgotten about that thread from 6 years ago...

Some useful info there:
- Paolo liked the GS108T-200 over other switches tested...
- ThomasOK preferred his GS108T-200 over a GS108v2, but it didn't seem like a big difference
- Spannko did not like the GS108v3, initially, but the problem was solved by swapping the power supply
- Spannko & Thomas both noted that the musicality of the switch is dependent on the power supply...
(the ps should not be an issue as I have a Friwo)

The one comparison that I am interested in is GS108Tv1 against GS108T-200 - I haven't find anything on that yet, and I don't recall whether the original recommendation from what was the Linn forum was for the v1 or the -200. Any help on that, specifically, would be gratefully received.

I know that there are plenty on the Naim forum, and a few here, who swear by the Cisco switch - I appreciate the advice to stay away from the gbit version. I did read on the Naim forum, and here, that the musical qualities of the Cisco switch may lean towards the 'Naim sound', which doesn't appeal to me, so I am inclined to stay with an 8-port Netgear - it's just a question of which one.
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Re: Netgear Switch: GS108T v?

Post by Defender »

if you look at the supporting documents at Netgear there is only a version 1 which is all blue and a
version 2 which is grey/blue and has a POE port 1 and the version 2 is the -200
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Re: Netgear Switch: GS108T v?

Post by tokenbrit »

Got that - thanks Defender. Note that the v3 is a GS108; not a GS108T. I have a v3, and it's reported that the GS108T-200 is a bit better, but I'm curious if there's any musical difference between GS108Tv1 & GS108T-200. I'm trying to determine which version of GS108T I should upgrade to...
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Netgear Switch: GS108T v GS108v1 v GS108v4 v ?????

Post by Ron The Mon »

tokenbrit,
Maybe I can help confound you more!

...I usually don't go out shopping on Black Friday but went to Micro Center, my local computer superstore who was having a huge sale and freebies. I was sort of looking for a new switch as one of my networks in my home was now one output shy since I added a new AppleTV. I'd been running that AppleTV wireless but thought it might be improved.

Anyway, remembering a prior thread here (which you refer to I believe) I looked for a GS108T. They didn't have one but surprisingly had a GS108v4!!! I couldn't resist as it cost less than $20 after sale, coupon, and rebate; a one time deal.

That day I plugged it into a wall to warm it up and forgot about it for over a week. When I remembered I had it, I did a little research on Lejonklou and saw someone brought the topic up here again, but I couldn't find any info on a "v4" anywhere on the internet. So I listened and compared myself. To be fair, I used the old power supply from my V1 which has been on constantly over five years comparing both switches. I connected all cables in the same order first plugging and unplugging in only the v1 to "clean" the connections.

The bottom line is the v4 switch is better than v1. I went back and forth several times though it wasn't necessary as the first listen was quite clear. However, when I compared the power supplies, that was a different story. During all comparisons, the unplayed switch and supply were plugged into an AC outlet not connected to the "hi-Fi" dedicated 30amp AC circuit (spur) to stay warmed up. My "hi-fi" electrical is plugged in as per Fredrik Lejonklou's recommendation as I find that sounds best. My network is also very similar to Fredrik's except I have a lot more stuff plugged in and occasionally compare orders as almost everything plays sound through my main hi-fi. I have a 2019 Mac Mini, Oppo Blu-Ray, new AppleTV, Apple AirportExpress, two NAS, 4K smart TV, and printer.

Using tune-dem, the older power supply sounds better. The new supply sounds "odd" but not bad. I eventually compared the v1 switch/supply to the v4 switch/supply. That was quite difficult to decide. Overall, I'd take the v4 as it was brand new and had a warranty.

I have tried many other switches (and ethernet cables) over the years as part of my job involves programming industrial machines and I have access to many (especially commercial) products, but the GS108 is a different beast.

I have tried the Naim recommended Cisco and didn't like it at all. My unit was officially refurbished and I have Naim amps but no Naim network units. It was the most expensive network item I've purchased even though it wasn't new. It sounded clinical, sterile, and bouncy but tuneless.

I have not tried a FRIWO power supply as I've read many negative reviews from those whose opinions I agree with. The only people who prefer the FRIWO don't play any vinyl, like "SPACE", and don't have a proper dedicated hi-fi circuit.

I am also convinced that most people don't compare more than one sample unit. Most supplied power supplies are cheap; it probably costs less than a dollar to make a Netgear power supply. The variability of build between parts and assemblers of such a quantity is probably vast; from failure to well-built.

Part of my post here is to build on your paranoia while giving genuine facts, hence "confounding" you!

By the way, I have never seen, used, or compared a GS108T to anything.

Ron The Mon
Digital-Experimenter

P.S.
The new AppleTV sounds (and looks) really good. It performs even better when an "old" GS108v1 is used. I definitely got my monies worth upgrading switches. My wife has been telling me almost daily how "real" the TV (and hi-fi) in the bedroom looks and sounds since changing the switch.
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Re: Netgear Switch: GS108T v GS108v1 v GS108v4 v ?????

Post by Paaf »

Ron The Mon wrote: 2019-01-03 03:30 I have not tried a FRIWO power supply as I've read many negative reviews from those whose opinions I agree with. The only people who prefer the FRIWO don't play any vinyl, like "SPACE", and don't have a proper dedicated hi-fi circuit.
I've only heard excellent reviews of it on this forum. I just ordered one, picking up tomorrow.
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Re: Netgear Switch: GS108T v GS108v1 v GS108v4 v ?????

Post by tokenbrit »

Ron The Mon wrote: 2019-01-03 03:30 Part of my post here is to build on your paranoia while giving genuine facts, hence "confounding" you!
Remember: just because you're not paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you ;)

Thanks Ron, you are The Mon! Distilling from your post, it seems that the power supply is as at least as important as the switch, if not more, but optimising both is better still... Your experience seems to echo that of the original thread that "generally the 8 ports models have been all very good".
Rather than confound me, that really helps as it suggests that I shouldn't assume that my GS108v3 is 'all bad' - instead, I should try to listen to a v4 & a GS108T, if possible, but as funds, opportunity, and time allows; not as a priority.
I will certainly add the GS108v4 to the list. Maybe if I get a good GS108Tv1, I could send it on a roundtrip to Ann Arbor, and you & Tom (also The Mon ;) could do a switch shoot out: GS108Tv1 vs GS108T-200 vs GS108v4 ... Shame I don't live closer as, (un)like van Gogh, I'd be happy to lend an ear :)

Like Paaf, I am surprised by your comments on the Friwo especially as, when I got mine, I felt it made digital sound more analog... Of course, it could be that the power supply I was using prior wasn't one of Netgear's finest.
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FRIWO Power Supply For Netgear Switch?

Post by Ron The Mon »

Paaf wrote: 2019-01-03 21:16 [Regarding FRIWO power supply for Netgear switch]
I've only heard excellent reviews of it on this forum.
Exactly!! Most of the folks praising it on this forum and all on other forums have opinions I don't trust or believe. Basically, there is a pinkie-swear when one joins this forum that tune-dem is the method of choice for judging hi-fi. Most of those members really don't believe that.

What you haven't read is anything positive from the core group of contributors on this forum. The silence is deafening so to speak. If a specific power supply was that good, it would be a standardized recommended item here. Maybe it is that good, maybe it isn't. AC wall-wart supplies also vary country to country and it is possible an item in one market betters one in another but vice-versa in another country.

One contributor here raved about the FRIWO, spent time and money to install it, but never took anyone else's advice here about listening to the stock Netgear supply for the proper AC orientation! The same member also never compared the direction of his ethernet cables not believing it could matter. The same member loves SPACE. etc.

Maybe the FRIWO is awesome. If it is, there should be a sticky here. There is also a thread here of great value hi-fi items. Yet it's not on there?

Ron The Mon
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Re: Netgear Switch: GS108T v GS108v1 v GS108v4 v ?????

Post by sunbeamgls »

removed due to thinking error!
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