LP12 Radikal problem

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lejonklou
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Re: LP12 Radikal problem

Post by lejonklou »

I see that this thread has been read 743 times, but only 8 people have commented. I'm thinking maybe ya'll don't quite get the magnitude of this.

So many LP12-related mysteries of the past that are now most likely explained by this problem.

The difference between when the motor rests on the Trampolin foot and when it's not is like the difference between a mediocre vinyl session with a slight headache and a magical night of intense emotions when you just have to play one more album.

Putting the foot below the baseboard is not a good solution, which is obvious if one investigates it more closely. I have not tried different woods for my spacing strips yet, it's just too good as it is.
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Re: LP12 Radikal problem

Post by Charlie1 »

My deck is having a Krystal fitted so I've asked that it be checked.
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Re: LP12 Radikal problem

Post by matss »

lejonklou wrote: Putting the foot below the baseboard is not a good solution, which is obvious if one investigates it more closely. I have not tried different woods for my spacing strips yet, it's just too good as it is.
Just curious, how can one be sure putting the foot below the baseboard is not a good solution?

I don’t have this plinth issue so I’m not really in the target group to investigate.

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KLP12, KDSM/2, 3xKCT, homebrewn active speakers, Sneaky DS, OD11, Axis, Linto, Classik, Klout, OA12
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Re: LP12 Radikal problem

Post by lejonklou »

matss wrote:
lejonklou wrote: Putting the foot below the baseboard is not a good solution, which is obvious if one investigates it more closely. I have not tried different woods for my spacing strips yet, it's just too good as it is.
Just curious, how can one be sure putting the foot below the baseboard is not a good solution?

I don’t have this plinth issue so I’m not really in the target group to investigate.

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Because the hole is smaller than the Trampolin suspension. So you're blocking it, resulting in a stiffer suspension. I have confidence the original designers of the Trampolin evaluated it properly, so if it would have sounded best with a smaller and stiffer dome, they would have made it smaller.
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Re: LP12 Radikal problem

Post by matss »

Has anyone really verified that this is an issue - both that the dome actually does touch the the trampolin when loaded as well as that this does affect the sound in a negative way? Or is this conclusion just made on an ocular assumption? The outer rim on the foot provides some clearance to the trampolin when it is fastened on the underside of the baseboard. Maybe that is enough for the dome not to touch? I do not know, but I just suggest it could be worth trying out as a possible solution to the Radical plinth issue.

I’m surprised and dissapointed Linn even let this be an issue, as to me this is a pure production tolerance issue. Which easily should have been avoided by design or quality control.

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Re: LP12 Radikal problem

Post by Tendaberry »

I spoke to my Linn dealer about this and he checked with Linn. They are aware of the issue, but say that it very rarely occurs.
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Re: LP12 Radikal problem

Post by Charlie1 »

Tendaberry wrote:I spoke to my Linn dealer about this and he checked with Linn. They are aware of the issue, but say that it very rarely occurs.
Thanks for the feedback. Is that with Urika though? Fredrik stated that the Urika foot screws are rotated 45 degs in order to miss the motor housing, thereby making contact less likely, but still possible. Therefore, I assume it's more likely to be an issue with Radikal/Tramp2 owners.
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Re: LP12 Radikal problem

Post by Tendaberry »

Well, I asked specifically for my LP12, which has Radikal/Urika 1 and Tramp 2
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Re: LP12 Radikal problem

Post by Charlie1 »

OK, thanks. It's not really a Trampolin 2 though, although I don't know what you'd call it, just a Urika I guess as it's all one unit.
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Re: LP12 Radikal problem

Post by Tendaberry »

Yes, of course! Well duh!
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Re: LP12 Radikal problem

Post by Charlie1 »

Wasn’t intended to irritate you Tendaberry. It was a busy day and I can’t say I put much thought into it. I think, in part, I was also trying to indirectly clarify your comment, but doesn’t matter.
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Re: LP12 Radikal problem

Post by Tendaberry »

Charlie1 wrote:Wasn’t intended to irritate you Tendaberry. It was a busy day and I can’t say I put much thought into it. I think, in part, I was also trying to indirectly clarify your comment, but doesn’t matter.
No, you got me wrong. It was directed at myself, had a busy day too, sorry.
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Re: LP12 Radikal problem

Post by Charlie1 »

Tendaberry wrote:No, you got me wrong. It was directed at myself, had a busy day too, sorry.
No worries :)
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Re: LP12 Radikal problem

Post by ThomasOK »

I just put a Radikal and Urika II into an LP12 and ran into the same problem of the Radikal motor hitting the foot of the Urika Trampolin. I have in the past used a Dremel tool to machine down the screw, and sometimes the metal ring of the foot itself, on Trampolin 2s where this has been a problem. I liked the idea of Fredrik's solution to the problem and headed down to the hardware store where they happened to have balsa strips of just the right size. so I cut them to the right length, marked and drilled holes and fitted them to the Trampolin. I found the easiest thing was to drill the holes in the balsa a touch smaller than the screws. That way I could thread the screws part way into the balsa which holds the strips in place while fastening it to the plinth. I fed the signal cable underneath the balsa strip before threading in the screws and ran the power cable over the balsa through the original arm cable hole in the plinth. I also used the longer screws that Linn normally put in for the front and rear center holes as the standard ones were not long enough to grip well through the trampolin and balsa thickness. It worked great and you could only see the slightest edge of the Urika protruding a bit below the plinth if you were on a level with the bottom of it. Thanks for the suggestion.

Here is a photo:

Image
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Re: LP12 Radikal problem

Post by ThomasOK »

By the way, I believe somebody posted a link to this thread on the "other" forum. So you may have had a number of people checking it out to see what was said without posting any comments.
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Re: LP12 Radikal problem

Post by Freddy »

Thanks Thomas for the images, looking not to hard to do this! How thick balsa strips did you use? Would it be possible to measure a safe distance inside from topp plate to the cut out of the plinth? Is the trampolin now sticking out below the plinth?
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Re: LP12 Radikal problem

Post by ThomasOK »

The balsa strips I found were pretty much ideal at 1.5mm thick. The Trampolin does stick slightly below the plinth but I'd say less than 1mm (I didn't measure it when it was here). It is only visible if you are down on a level with the bottom of the plinth and even then you'd have to look for it. The customer was quite happy.

I didn't do a minimum internal height measurement but next time I'm inside a Radikal LP12 I will do that. Note that the Trampolin 2 would need more clearance than the Urika because of the position of one of the screws that hold the foot on being right under the motor. Grinding that screw down is generally the best way around that.
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Re: LP12 Radikal problem

Post by Erik »

Thomas!
Dig you pick balsa for a certain reason or by chance!

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Re: LP12 Radikal problem

Post by ThomasOK »

I picked it because it was the only suitable thing the local hardware store had available in a usable size. I would like to think that the amount and thickness of wood we are talking about, and the fact that it is clamped between the felted Trampolin aluminum and the plinth wood, means that the type of wood woodn't make any difference. I would like to think that, but there are no guarantees as all too many things I would like to think shouldn't make a difference do.
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Re: LP12 Radikal problem

Post by Freddy »

Today I screwed off the Trampolin base to check for this issue. I could already on Radikal motor see scratches from the screw on the bottom of the motor. The paper test also showed that it was a problem. The screw from the Trampolin feet is actually sticking up about 1 mm. I took a dremmel and took away this. Now the paper slides free but it should be a really close space between the base and the motor. I'm thinking that maybe strips of plasic tape (used be electricians) could be enough to make the space larger. Is that a good idea?

I could immediately hear a sound improvement. :)
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Re: LP12 Radikal problem

Post by lejonklou »

You're in for a nice surprise, Freddy!

The harder the Trampolin foot pushes against the Radikal motor, the worse it sounds. If they're not touching even when the LP12 is placed on its feet, it sings in a completely new way. They way it was meant to!

I'm unsure how much the spacing material matters, but I'm quite certain that it matters much less than that the motor is isolated from Trampolin/Urika.
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Re: LP12 Radikal problem

Post by Nicolav »

I have the Trampolin 2, tested with Paolo with the paper trick.

Luckily the motor don't touch the feet (even compressed) of the trampolin.

My LP12 sounds great!

Thanks to Fredrik for sharing this helpful hint!
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Re: LP12 Radikal problem

Post by Charlie1 »

Apparently my Urika does touch the Radikal motor. Just waiting to find out if shortening the screw is enough or whether wood strips are necessary. It seems the Urika foot orientation has changed through the production lifetime. I obviously bought mine before the change, about 2-3 years ago.
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Re: LP12 Radikal problem

Post by beck »

Charlie1 wrote:Apparently my Urika does touch the Radikal motor. Just waiting to find out if shortening the screw is enough or whether wood strips are necessary. It seems the Urika foot orientation has changed through the production lifetime. I obviously bought mine before the change, about 2-3 years ago.
Bad news Charlie1. Now you have to make all your clips again in the “Playground” tread. Older clips are not valid! :-)
Playing cd’s…………
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Re: LP12 Radikal problem

Post by lejonklou »

beck wrote:
Charlie1 wrote:Apparently my Urika does touch the Radikal motor. Just waiting to find out if shortening the screw is enough or whether wood strips are necessary. It seems the Urika foot orientation has changed through the production lifetime. I obviously bought mine before the change, about 2-3 years ago.
Bad news Charlie1. Now you have to make all your clips again in the “Playground” tread. Older clips are not valid! :-)
Depends on how you see it.

Considering how much you paid for this precision instrument, it's scandalous that your LP12 is affected. And the roughly 50% problem rate that I've encountered so far (2 out of 4, a fifth is coming in today so we'll see which state is in majority) is far, far from the various claims of it being "very rare".

Considering how happy you'll be when it's fixed, it's great news that your LP12 is affected!
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