Best / worst vinyl pressings

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Matteo
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Re: Best / worst vinyl pressings

Post by Matteo »

I'm glad to hear that, Charlie1.

I started this topic for this purpose.

I hope other forum members can contribute to it.

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Re: Best / worst vinyl pressings

Post by Freddy »

Charlie1 wrote: I never really connected with it so much on vinyl, just a few years later.
Great to hear that you got a good copy of it! Its a really good record. Do you still have the not so good vinyl and what pressing is it?
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Re: Best / worst vinyl pressings

Post by Charlie1 »

Freddy wrote:Great to hear that you got a good copy of it! Its a really good record. Do you still have the not so good vinyl and what pressing is it?
I'm in my office now but as I recall the newly delivered one is A2/B4 and the older pressing I bought years ago is A5/B8, or something along those lines. They definitely both read 'copperman' in the dead wax.

I think mine is variant 4, according to discogs:

Matrix / Runout (Side A label): PG 5 - 1
Matrix / Runout (Side B label): PG 5 - 2
Matrix / Runout (Runoff A, variant 1): PG 5 A-3U-1-3-4 D TOWNHOUSE
Matrix / Runout (Runoff B, variant 1): PG 5 B-3U-1-1- TOWNHOUSE D
Matrix / Runout (Runout A - variant 2): PG 5 A-5U-1-1-2 D TOWNHOUSE
Matrix / Runout (Runout B - variant 2): PG 5 B-3U-1-9-5 TOWNHOUSE D
Matrix / Runout (Side A, variant 3): PG 5 A-4U-1-C D Copperman ( etched )
Matrix / Runout (Side B, variant 3): PG 5 B-3U-1-5-D Townhouse ( etched )
Matrix / Runout (Side A, variant 4): PG 5 A-4U-1-2-1 D Copperman ( etched )
Matrix / Runout (Side B, variant 4): PG 5 B-3U-1-4-1 D Townhouse ( etched )

Matrix / Runout (Side A runout, stamped, variant 5): PG 5 A-5U-1-2-2-HI D
Matrix / Runout (Side B runout, stamped, variant 5): PG 5 B-3U-1-8 D
Matrix / Runout (Side A & B runout, etched, variant 5): TOWNHOUSE
Matrix / Runout (Side A runout variant 6): PG 5 A-3U-1-1-X1 D TOWNHOUSE
Matrix / Runout (Side B runout variant 6): PG 5 B-3U-1-1 D TOWNHOUSE
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Re: Best / worst vinyl pressings

Post by tokenbrit »

Complicated business buying LPs. Taking So as an example, and just considering US releases from 1986, there are 6 listings on Discogs:

Vinyl, LP, Album, EMI, 28VB-1088
Vinyl, LP, Album, Geffen Records GHS 24088 - Allied Pressing
Vinyl, LP, Album, Geffen Records GHS 24088 - Specialty Pressing
Vinyl, LP, Album, Club Edition, Geffen Records R 114764
And 2 entries for Vinyl, LP, Album, Club Edition on Geffen Records GHS 24088 - I haven't figured the difference between these listings yet...

Would anyone like to advise / guess if any of these might be better than my 1986 UK Charisma/Virgin copy? OK, maybe this wasn't the best example since I do own a UK copy but, if I didn't, how would I choose between the 6 US versions from 1986?
Given that I am now in the US, is it worth searching for UK releases of Genesis, PG, Pink Floyd, Roger Waters, etc, and paying extra for shipping, or are US original releases just as good / good enough.
And don't get me started on trying to find dealers that have copies of multiple albums on the shopping list, let alone in the condition that you might want, so as to save on shipping ($7 for 1 LP)...
I can see the simplicity of streaming but, again, which release? ;)
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Re: Best / worst vinyl pressings

Post by Charlie1 »

tokenbrit wrote:Given that I am now in the US, is it worth searching for UK releases of Genesis, PG, Pink Floyd, Roger Waters, etc, and paying extra for shipping, or are US original releases just as good / good enough.
And don't get me started on trying to find dealers that have copies of multiple albums on the shopping list, let alone in the condition that you might want, so as to save on shipping ($7 for 1 LP)...
I can see the simplicity of streaming but, again, which release? ;)
I doubt there are any strict rules we can follow, so it takes research and therefore time. The Steve Hoffman forum is very good for this. Alternatively, sometimes you'll find a blog page where someone has already gone to the trouble of understanding the versions, but there's still the matter of personal taste. An audiophile will have a different preference to a music lover, for example. If you're not into all the research then buying from the same country as the artist is a good idea by all accounts, although I've not done enough comparisons myself to confirm how successful this approach will be in general.

My understanding is that big US sellers will likely have been pressed in a few different plants across the country, adding more variation to the idea of a 'first pressing'. People will report preferences for certain pressing plants, which you can identify from the dead wax. I think it's less common in the UK but the same pressing plant may create a number of stampers to press from, especially the big sellers, so there is still a variation in 'first pressings'.

Ref shipping costs, for monster sellers like 'Brothers in Arms', or such like, then I bet you could find a UK pressing somewhere in the US to save on shipping. But that doesn't help with most purchases.

You're right though - it's a pain.

As for streaming services, they seem to be favouring the latest re-mastered re-issues. I don't really follow digital media, but wonder if most of these re-issues provide a more cleaned up sound at the expense of some musicality, cos the master tapes have continued to age. Again, probably a case-by-base basis. Weren't the original Beatles CDs a very poor transfer? - perhaps those re-issues are more enjoyable.
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Re: Best / worst vinyl pressings

Post by Matteo »

For Fleetwood Mac fans, a mostly unknown gem:

https://www.discogs.com/Christine-McVie ... ase/888084

really impressive record and good pressing

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Re: Best / worst vinyl pressings

Post by Matteo »

tokenbrit

In Italy there is a legend: German and Dutch pressings are always best.

In my experience, this was true just in some cases

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Re: Best / worst vinyl pressings

Post by Tendaberry »

Matteo wrote:tokenbrit

In Italy there is a legend: German and Dutch pressings are always best.

In my experience, this was true just in some cases

M
In my experience, they are the worst. I don't know how many I have replaced with American or Japanese by now. There are exceptions of course, like the Speakers Corner reissues.
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Re: Best / worst vinyl pressings

Post by Matteo »

Great album and good sounding pressing:

https://www.discogs.com/Suzanne-Vega-So ... ase/519991

Calypso my favourite.

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Re: Best / worst vinyl pressings

Post by nmakowsk »

Tokenbrit,

its cool that you mentioned the Peter Gabriel So USA versions here as I just had cleaned my copy and gave it a listen. It is the specialty records USA stock copy one in your list of pressings. It sounded okay but I did hear some sibilance and just a hint of a compressed sounding record but not bad. This lacquer was cut by Greg Fulginiti at artisan for this USA release. The inner sleeve states "originally mastered by Ian Cooper at Townhouse" so this lends me to believe that the UK would be the way to go which makes perfect sense. You mention the club issue records and its been my position that most of these should be steered away from unless the matrix has the initials or stamp of the correct engineer or mastering house. RCA music service seemed to cut in-house all their lacquers and the matrix usually just has the club number nothing else. Its highly doubtful that RCA used or even received the best tapes available and all the ones I have heard are pretty bad honestly. Sound is likely inferior. Columbia house (CRC) cut a lot of lacquers themselves as well but sometimes received the correct intended lacquer and just pressed it at a Columbia plant so that can be a mixed bag. Matrix tells the story. So now I always look at the matrix now to determine if I think I have the intended lacquer/engineer/mastering house and I find this to be much more important than stamper numbers. The inner sleeve notes can be helpful too as in the case of the Peter Gabriel So. As far as the Allied or Specialty records I would think they would be about the same just steer away from club offerings if possible. That's my thoughts anyways.

BTW, I believe I met you briefly at the North American Sagatun launch at Overture Audio years ago. I believe you wanted to hear what the Sagatun monos could do in the Linn DS realm. I remember it now how we were so into the monos and Tom's LP12SE movingui that pretty much its all we did after a certain point in the evening. It was a great occasion for sure and I was the younger guy who was rightfully scolded by Fredrik for turning off the LP12 first before removing an LP. I didn't know the proper etiquette at the time and I was schooled by the master :) I now only do that if I am playing 7" 45s since its really tough to grab those edges while spinning at 45 RPM. Anyways, You own a pair of monos now if I am not mistaken and that is sure something I wish to hear in my system someday. Nice...
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Re: Best / worst vinyl pressings

Post by Charlie1 »

The copy of 'So' I just received (copperman A-4-U-1-2 / townhouse B-3-U-1-3) also has quite a bit of sibilance. However, the one I bought in the late 80s (copperman A-4-U-1-5 / townhouse B-3-U-1-8) is better in this respect. The earlier pressing is definitely more enjoyable though.
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Re: Best / worst vinyl pressings

Post by Matteo »

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Re: Best / worst vinyl pressings

Post by Matteo »

A little gem for Fleetwood’s fans

https://www.discogs.com/Christine-McVie ... ase/888084

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Re: Best / worst vinyl pressings

Post by Matteo »

This for Chicago’s fans

https://www.discogs.com/Peter-Cetera-Wo ... se/1540604

Good press

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Re: Best / worst vinyl pressings

Post by Charlie1 »

The US reissue of Moondance (BSK 3103) is more a bit musical than the UK (K46040) Burbank pressing. My green label UK (K46040) is clearly more musical than both. I assume the green label US pressing is the best but, at £150+ for a good copy, I doubt I will have the opportunity to find out.
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Re: Best / worst vinyl pressings

Post by Matteo »

Charlie1 wrote:The US reissue of Moondance (BSK 3103) is more a bit musical than the UK (K46040) Burbank pressing. My green label UK (K46040) is clearly more musical than both. I assume the green label US pressing is the best but, at £150+ for a good copy, I doubt I will have the opportunity to find out.
On Discogs there are 2 UK K46040 Burbank reissue.

Which is the correct version?

https://www.discogs.com/Van-Morrison-Mo ... se/1257214

https://www.discogs.com/Van-Morrison-Mo ... se/6269950

There are also 5 versions of US reissue BSK 3103:

https://www.discogs.com/Van-Morrison-Mo ... ster/14520

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Re: Best / worst vinyl pressings

Post by Charlie1 »

Matteo wrote:On Discogs there are 2 UK K46040 Burbank reissue.

Which is the correct version?

https://www.discogs.com/Van-Morrison-Mo ... se/1257214

https://www.discogs.com/Van-Morrison-Mo ... se/6269950
Sometimes the same LP release will be split between the various pressing plants, so a US release might have up to 5 different Discogs entries - the plant is often in italics up at the top, such as Winchester or Jacksonville. Other entries are for promos and all sorts. However, in this case, the only difference seems to be that the second one has more specific deadwax information.
Matteo wrote:There are also 5 versions of US reissue BSK 3103:

https://www.discogs.com/Van-Morrison-Mo ... ster/14520
Yeah, there's about a dozen or more by the looks of it. There are some with earlier Burbank label too - these may sound best and may even beat a UK green label for all I know. My BSK 3103 has a plain light brown label, so is a bit later, but not sure of the year.

What about this US Burbank in Sweden - I think it's a very good price, especially if it's really 'near mint'.
https://www.discogs.com/sell/item/607181062
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Re: Best / worst vinyl pressings

Post by Matteo »

Charlie1 wrote: Yeah, there's about a dozen or more by the looks of it. There are some with earlier Burbank label too - these may sound best and may even beat a UK green label for all I know. My BSK 3103 has a plain light brown label, so is a bit later, but not sure of the year.
Thanks

The later versions of BSK 3103 are referred as "cream label".

I have an early UK version that sounds bad (originally owned by my father-in-law).

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Re: Best / worst vinyl pressings

Post by nmakowsk »

Cool that you guys bring up Van Morrison's Moondance album, fantastic record. I learned this bit of information on the Steve Hoffman forum a year ago. Listen closely to the song "into the mystic" as there are a couple of variations on which mix was pressed to vinyl. The first USA press green label that I have has the original mix and you can hear Van with a tambourine in the right channel and a few small other changes like that fog horn sound in the chorus. Later USA copies such as the palm tree or cream label use a different mix without the tambourine. I Have done A/B comparisons and personally I enjoy the tambourine in there. I have no idea which mixes are on the UK pressings...
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Re: Best / worst vinyl pressings

Post by Matteo »

A Fleetwood's weekend for me, listening to their top 5 albums (IMO), in descending order:

1. Tango in the night (1987)
https://www.discogs.com/Fleetwood-Mac-T ... ase/436642

2. Fleetwood Mac (1975)
https://www.discogs.com/Fleetwood-Mac-F ... se/3586233

3. Tusk (1979)
https://www.discogs.com/Fleetwood-Mac-T ... ase/618279

4. Rumours (1977)
https://www.discogs.com/Fleetwood-Mac-R ... se/2830958

5. Mirage (1982)
https://www.discogs.com/Fleetwood-Mac-M ... e/10341784

Favourite songs "Sara" and "Storms" from Tusk (1979), followed by "Gypsy" form Mirage (1982), all written by Stevie Nicks.

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Re: Best / worst vinyl pressings

Post by Charlie1 »

Matteo wrote:Favourite songs "Sara" and "Storms" from Tusk (1979), followed by "Gypsy" form Mirage (1982), all written by Stevie Nicks.
We have similar taste. Sara and Gypsy are two of my favourite FM songs too.

The 3-CD delux edition of Rumours has a great live version of 'Rhiannon' too - worth buying that alone and great for car journeys :) It's similar, although not quite as good, as the famous Rosebud performance where she has a kind of exorcism at the end, here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssL9T0-oq6o
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Re: Best / worst vinyl pressings

Post by Matteo »

Charlie1 wrote:
Matteo wrote:Favourite songs "Sara" and "Storms" from Tusk (1979), followed by "Gypsy" form Mirage (1982), all written by Stevie Nicks.
We have similar taste. Sara and Gypsy are two of my favourite FM songs too.

The 3-CD delux edition of Rumours has a great live version of 'Rhiannon' too - worth buying that alone and great for car journeys :) It's similar, although not quite as good, as the famous Rosebud performance where she has a kind of exorcism at the end, here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssL9T0-oq6o
ah ah ah
incredible video
Thanks Charlie1
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Re: Best / worst vinyl pressings

Post by Charlie1 »

Matteo wrote:incredible video
Thanks Charlie1
Glad you liked it :) There is also a Midnight Special recording but I don't think it's as powerful.
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Re: Best / worst vinyl pressings

Post by Matteo »

is there any FM's live in vinyl that deserves to be bought?

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Re: Best / worst vinyl pressings

Post by Charlie1 »

Matteo wrote:is there any FM's live in vinyl that deserves to be bought?

M
Sorry, I don't have any live LPs of theirs. I seem to recall there was one released in the 80s. I know you're looking for LPs but the 3-CD delux Rumours has a whole live CD and the performances are very good overall.
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