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JohnS
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Post by JohnS »

Hi,
I'm looking to replace my equipment rack and I was hoping someone might be able to steer me in the right direction. I'm looking for something I can buy from a dealer in the UK (without calling companies that don't normally import here) and preferably for less than 1K GBP for 4 pieces of equipment.

The three main candidates seem to be Quadraspire, Quadraspire Reference and IsoBlue.

Am I missing any worthy candidates?
Has anyone compared these?
Is the Quadraspire Reference worth the extra cost over the standard product?

Any help much appreciated
Thanks
John
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Post by Charlie1 »

My dealer said that he'd compared the Isoblue to Quadrasphire (not the new Sunoko-Vent range or whatever its called) and found the Isoblue more musical, but I've not compared them myself. Not sure which shelf type they were dem'ing on the Quad either.

As mentioned elsewhere, I've found Linn Skeets boost the musicality (and the sound slightly) of the Isoblue on my suspended wooden carpeted floor.

Also, I vaguely recall Peter Swain from Cymbiosis promoting a rack or table on the Linn forum, but don't recall the name or thread - sorry. Perhaps just give him a call.

There are quite a few Linn dealers selling the Isoblue judging from their website. I'm sure many will stock the Quad's too.

Also noticed this whilst browsing for Isoblue webpage:
http://forums.naim-audio.com/eve/forums ... 5962964507

Found the topic....
http://forums.linn.co.uk/bb/showthread. ... 777&page=3
Decent Audio - they may only do the wall shelf, but might be worth a look
Last edited by Charlie1 on 2008-10-09 17:01, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by ThomasOK »

I am in the opposite position from Charlie - I have heard the Quadraspire racks but have not heard the IsoBlue. The Quadraspire are quite musical racks and substantially outperform units like Sound Organisation and Target racks. I own a 7 shelf Quadraspire midi rack with all of my electronics on it (my LP12 is on a separate Archidee stand) and have been quite pleased with it.

The Reference Acrylic is definitely superior for electronics and CD players but I would not recommend putting an LP12 on top of it as it is too wobbly for proper support. If Quadraspire made the Acrylic rack in the size I want I probably would have upgraded to it already.
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Post by bbyte »

I've Quadraspire Sunoko-Vent on order. My dealer says it is clearly better than standard Q4 rack, and one of the best on the market. Naim Fraim is a good option too, but pricey, and not as big, as it could be. Peter from Cymbosis, AFAIR mentioned TimeTable hi-fi rack - www.timetable-hifi.de Maybe there good, but 2500 euros for 5 tier model isn't a bargain. :wink:
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Post by Charlie1 »

bbyte wrote:Peter from Cymbosis, AFAIR mentioned TimeTable hi-fi rack - www.timetable-hifi.de Maybe there good, but 2500 euros for 5 tier model isn't a bargain.
I had a TimeTable for a couple of months. It sounded very good and I was surprised how much more detail and focus the LP12 is capable of. However, it didn't Tune Dem quite as well as the Isoblue and most importantly I simply wasn't enjoying my music so much or wanting to listen so often. The manufacturer said there was a issue with it, but they were quite vague on the details. I think unless you live in Germany or can find a reseller in your native country, then best avoid. Maybe I was unlucky, but its a lot of money to spend (especially when you factor in the shipping costs if there is a problem with it). And as mentioned above, my Isoblue does sound closer to the TimeTable with Skeets underneath and even more tuneful, but that might be floor specific.

It would be interesting to compare the new Sunoko-Vent with an Isoblue. Also, time permiting I was going to see if unloading the Isoblue shelves improves the performance even more or reducing the number of layers.
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Post by lejonklou »

bbyte wrote:I've Quadraspire Sunoko-Vent on order. My dealer says it is clearly better than standard Q4 rack
Could you please ask him how it compares with the acrylic reference rack?

Still tempted to buy an acrylic shelf for my QS wallshelf, but a recent experiment has made my interest cool down: When I position my LP12 on a standard Ikea Corras table on the floor, it sounds slightly better than on the standard QS wallshelf. Floor positioning is however not very practical, because of footfall problems. :cry:

And since I already know how inferior the Ikea Corras table is to the standard Harmonihyllan - which in turn is vastly inferior to the incredible (and expensive) Harmonihyllan Mimer - the QS wallshelf doesn't feel quite as hot as it used to. :|
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Post by bbyte »

It should be better than the acrylic one. I hope it is. :wink:
I'm will ask him today. Correct me If I'm wrong, but there isn't a way to use Sunoko shelf in wall support?

On Quadraspire website, it is said that the Sunoko uses the best from Q4Reference table and Q4 table. It is more rigid, gives better ventilation, better decoupling, with reduced mass shelfs, less resonances, can hold heavier equipment.
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Post by lejonklou »

Thanks bbyte. I see now that the Sunoko-Vent shelves are deeper than the wallshelf dimensions, so it doesn't seem like an option to put a Sunoko-Vent on the wall.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.
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Post by bbyte »

I've got the info about Acrylic & Sunoko. Sunoko is better, but the difference isn't too big. But there's big difference between original Q4 & Sunoko. One more thing - on Q4 you could choose between 19mm and 32mm columns. On SV you have only 32mm which are better.
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Post by Charlie1 »

bbyte wrote:I've got the info about Acrylic & Sunoko. Sunoko is better, but the difference isn't too big. But there's big difference between original Q4 & Sunoko.
Was that using Tune Method? Am also interested in the Sunoko
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Post by bbyte »

Yes. He doesn't like much Acrylic table, but prefers normal Q4 Reference table and now Sunoko.
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Post by JohnS »

Hi bbyte,
How long does it take to get the Sunoko? Have you got it yet? Are you happy?

I called a few dealers and got feedback similar to the above, that the Sunoko was their best now, better than the reference. One dealer who did IsoBlue and Quadraspire prefered the QS Sunoko.

The dealer I tried however didn't have a Sunoko in stock and it was by order only, so it's a bit difficult to demo. I be really interested in your experience.
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Post by bbyte »

I'm still waiting for Sunoko to come. Maybe it would be in this week.
I was told that I should wait 2 weeks. My model is Sunoko SVX (4 tier).
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Post by bbyte »

Sorry to keep you waiting, but my new hifi rack looks beautiful. I've tested it with additional resonators (isolators?) between the shelves, and I have strange feelings that they doesn't help much. It's clearly better than hifi table I used before (custom made glass shelfs and alluminium collumns). I'm going to put my turntable on 'normal' Quadraspire wallshelf.
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Post by ThomasOK »

I have finally had a chance to listen to a QS Sunoko stand and thought I would share my impressions. It was a simple two shelf unit set up to function as a turntable stand. It had the standard spikes on the bottom and 326mm columns with the top shelf isolated by another set of spikes. Only the top shelf was used, the bottom shel being left empty and none of the isolator rings were used as the LP12 wants to see a rigid platform.

Overall I feel that the Sunoko set up makes a quite good turntable stand. It is definitely superior to the similarly configured QS Acrylic reference stand I tried a couple of weeks ago. I still feel that the Archidee is noticeably better and is still the best turntable stand I have heard. The Audiotech is also a hair better but it is closer there. Since neither the Audiotech or the Archidee are available anymore and the Archidee is almost impossible to find on the used market (as opposed to the Audiotech which is merely difficult to find) the QS Sunoko certainly seems like a good alternative to me and it costs quite a bit less than some of the other new turntable stands that are popping up.

I would really like to see Quadraspire make the Sunoko Vent in the standard Q4 size. The current Sunoko is quite large as it was designed to handle monster amps popular in ther Japanese and Americn markets without sagging. But now that it seems to be the preferred shelving unit it would make sense to make a standard size version - possibly with thinner shelves as well - for more normal size and lighter equipment. Since the LP12 seems to like as light a stand as possible I think a thinner, Q4 sized Sunoko should be even better than the one I listened to.

I wanted to point out that I find any of the better floor shelves: the Sunoko Vent, Archidee, Audiotech and even the original Sound Organisation outperform the best of the wall shelves. I should also mention that I am not a big fan of the Quadraspire wall shelf for an LP12. There is too much give in the up and down direction from the unsupported posts to really support the turntable properly. I have found that in systems with really deep bass (Artikulat 350As, large Sonus fabers with a REL Studio III sub, etc.) the QS Wall shelf will allow (cause?) the LP12 to feedback at moderate to high listening levels - especially if the Acrylic shelf with the isolators is used. With removal of the isolators and very careful leveling of the wall shelf I have been able to reduce the problem to the point where fairly high listening levels are needed to cause feedback. But in my system with large ATCs and a REL B1 sub I can play loud enough to rattle doors (literally) and cause hearing damage and my LP12 goes about its job happily on an Archidee floor stand right next to the speaker.

I haven't listened to the Sunoko vent for other equipment except in the store. In the store I have found the Sunoko to sound quite good but I have not directly compared it to the other Quadraspire racks yet so I can't really rank it. At home it would be just way too big for my stack of LK size boxes with a KK on top. However, as three of my LK boxes are about to be replaced by a single AV style one I may have to start re-evaluating other rack possibilities - especially if I end up replacing the other two LK boxes with another single AV box.
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Post by Charlie1 »

Thanks for posting that Thomas. Like you say, could be very useful for those that need a good stand in todays market. Those living outside Sweden that is! :)

I would like to give it a try now and compare it to the Isoblue. Will be interesting as it will be a benchmark to compare the Isoblue with.

Incidentally, going back to the TimeTables. I've since been told that these don't work properly until the entire system is using them - this was said to me by an owner, not the manufacturer. Have you come across this before? Maybe your system would be better with everything on the Sunuko.
ThomasOK wrote:and my LP12 goes about its job happily on an Archidee floor stand right next to the speaker.
Have you ever been able to try the LP12 away from the ATCs? I only ask cos mine is next to a Ninka and I've wondered if/what negative affect it's having. Unfortunately, I don't have the flexibility right now to move it away without replacing the speaker cables.
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Post by lejonklou »

Thanks for a great report, Thomas! Very useful and I agree they should make the Sunoko in Q4 width.

I also agree in general about the wall placement. Usually it seems better performance wise to place the LP12 on the floor. But as things vary with floor and wall materials, I have never been sure that floor placement is always superior.

I have noted that my simple IKEA Corras (on wooden floor) is quite a bit better than my QS wallshelf (bolted to a concrete wall). But unfortunately with the floor placement I can't walk and play vinyl at the same time. :cry:
Charlie1 wrote:I've since been told that these don't work properly until the entire system is using them.
That sounds very unlikely to my ears. I find that what works for the LP12 also works with other components - with less impact on the sound quality as you move down the HiFi chain.

Personally, I am aiming for a Harmonihyllan with one Mimer shelf at the top. One nice thing about the Mimer shelf (which is partly a machined piece of aluminium with pockets below, similar to how a Keel is made) is that they are perfectly suited for two of my small enclosure products. For best performance, they shouldn't be placed centrally, where there's a reinforcement cross below, but 1/4 width from the side. Which makes room for two! As I have found my small enclosures to improve considerably with good support, I believe this shelf will make some tuning procedures easier for me to do.

Another interesting observation is that it seems that two Linn products placed on top of eachother on a superior shelf sounds better than if they are placed on individual shelves of lesser quality. I haven't tried this with more than two products, though. Comments anyone?
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Post by Charlie1 »

Lejonklou wrote:
Charlie1 wrote:I've since been told that these don't work properly until the entire system is using them.
That sounds very unlikely to my ears. I find that what works for the LP12 also works with other components - with less impact on the sound quality as you move down the HiFi chain.
Sorry, but I misunderstood, apparently it's the Lingo that should also be on a TimeTable.

I was recently told that getting components central on each shelf can make a small improvement. I'll give that a try some time.
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Post by Lego »

lejonklou wrote:
I have noted that my simple IKEA Corras (on wooden floor) is quite a bit better than my QS wallshelf (bolted to a concrete wall). But unfortunately with the floor placement I can't walk and play vinyl at the same time. .
Can you not place your deck parallel to the floorboards as opposed perpendicular Lejonklou?
I know that tune
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Post by Music Lover »

lejonklou wrote:
Personally, I am aiming for a Harmonihyllan with one Mimer shelf at the top. One nice thing about the Mimer shelf (which is partly a machined piece of aluminium with pockets below, similar to how a Keel is made) is that they are perfectly suited for two of my small enclosure products.

Another interesting observation is that it seems that two Linn products placed on top of eachother on a superior shelf sounds better than if they are placed on individual shelves of lesser quality. I haven't tried this with more than two products, though. Comments anyone?
Have 2 Mimer shelves on order since January.
Report back when I finally get them.
(have Harmonihyllan today and the two top shelves going to be replaced with mimer)
For best performance, they shouldn't be placed centrally, where there's a reinforcement cross below, but 1/4 width from the side. Which makes room for two! As I have found my small enclosures to improve considerably with good support, I believe this shelf will make some tuning procedures easier for me to do.
1/4 width???
Explain more please
It's all about musical understanding!
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Post by lejonklou »

Lego: Thanks, I've tried... :cry:

Music Lover: Great, report when you get them! What I meant is simply that two of my small boxes fit on one Mimer shelf - they are ideally not placed centrally but to one side of the shelf.
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Post by Music Lover »

Finally got the Mimer racks.
They are simply STUNNING!

Now I understand what the Naimies rage about saying a Fraim is better than upgrading the Naim equipment. Well some does...

The improvement is as changing source.
Enhanced sound and tune. The feeling is on a totally different level.

Heard a few vinyl albums on a top spec LP12 the other day on an ordinary HIFI furniture. The CD copies ripped and played on my KDS standing on Mimer is WAY WAY better. (both systems rather similar) No contest!
Normally a Radikal/Ulrika/Akiva LP 12 should eat a DS to breakfast regardless of amps/speakers but not this time.
Mimer is costly but well worth the money.
A killer product. Not among my top 5 biggest upgrades but definitely top 10!
It's all about musical understanding!
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Post by lejonklou »

Thanks for the report, ML!

Now you made me want this even more! If I get as pleased with it at home as I've been when I've heard it elsewhere, I will start selling this rack. There are already some customers interested and I thought I'd have a demo rack to lend out. There's nothing like trying things at home to really understand what they're doing.

One thing that I've perhaps mentioned before is that I once compared a Kinki MM stage (first version) on a Mimer shelf with a Slipsik MM stage (version 3 or 4?) on a standard Odin shelf. I had a hard time choosing between these, but I think Kinki was probably more enjoyable. When both were placed on the same shelf, Slipsik won easily. There is definitely something fundamental in what this shelf does!

Now I wonder: An Akurate DS on a Mimer shelf versus a Klimax DS on some simple support (coffee table). Which performs better?
Last edited by lejonklou on 2009-06-03 12:03, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Music Lover »

lejonklou wrote: Now I wonder: An Akurate DS on a Mimer shelf versus a Klimax DS on some simple support (coffee table). Which performs better?
I know the setup I prefer if KDS is placed on the floor and ADS on Mimer :wink: :shock:
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Post by lejonklou »

Music Lover wrote:I know the setup I prefer if KDS is placed on the floor and ADS on Mimer :wink: :shock:
Are you saying that you have compared KDS on the floor, with ADS on a Mimer shelf - and found ADS+Mimer to be better?!?

Since I know the difference between KDS and ADS (big!), my first reaction is that this must be an exaggeration. But then I do have confidence in your reports...

So racks are really around source level in the hierarchy?
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