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Music Lover
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Post by Music Lover »

Please try yourself and see what you think.
Mimer also enhance the sound so the equipment on the floor is not only less musical but also less good sounding. My impression is booooring.

But the more relevant test is having the KDS on a light table (IKEA Lack or similar) as that cost just around 20€.

The floor test is just to understand how good Mimer is! Nobody put a KDS on the floor.

Maximizing performance to a given budget is another matter where IKEA tables scores very high if the budget is tight.
More money to spend --> get "Harmonihyllan" and upgrade each shelf to Mimer, one by one starting with the top shelf.
It's all about musical understanding!
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Post by Music Lover »

Forgot...
Last year we tested having Akurate DS and Akurate CD on Harmonihyllan, floor and Mimer.
The conclusion is that Harmonihyllan is good, Mimer brilliant and to my ears the performance jump is bigger from Harmoni --> Mimer than floor --> Harmoni.

Note, Anders normally has the KDS locked to the Mimer shelf so it can be difficult to just enter the shop without pre-notification and demo this.
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Post by Music Lover »

Short update.
Moved the four damping foams (located between the tree shelf and the alu shelf) a bit closer to the centre.
A bit more musical, a bigger decrease in sound. Less crisp and live.
I also noticed that temperature and humidity change the performance just a tiny bit.

As it's quite easy to separate the shelves 4-5mm and move the damping foams without dismantle the complete rack, I plan o let the Mimer settle down for some months, before tuning it on an "average day".
I like to move the foams back out to half the original distance and check if I can get same nice sound as before preserving the musicality...
Keep you posted!
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Post by Charlie1 »

Music Lover wrote:Heard a few vinyl albums on a top spec LP12 the other day on an ordinary HIFI furniture. The CD copies ripped and played on my KDS standing on Mimer is WAY WAY better. (both systems rather similar) No contest!
Normally a Radikal/Ulrika/Akiva LP 12 should eat a DS to breakfast regardless of amps/speakers but not this time.
Just to clarify - are you really saying that a KDS on Mimer is more musical than Radikal LP12 on another rack? What was the 'other' rack BTW?

So you would rank Mimer as more important than the pre-amp? If so, I wonder if it's more important than phono stage or cartridge or even arm :?
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Post by Music Lover »

Charlie1 wrote:
Music Lover wrote:Heard a few vinyl albums on a top spec LP12 the other day on an ordinary HIFI furniture. The CD copies ripped and played on my KDS standing on Mimer is WAY WAY better. (both systems rather similar) No contest!
Normally a Radikal/Ulrika/Akiva LP 12 should eat a DS to breakfast regardless of amps/speakers but not this time.
Just to clarify - are you really saying that a KDS on Mimer is more musical than Radikal LP12 on another rack? What was the 'other' rack BTW?
Sorry to be unspecific but it was two different systems in two different rooms.
Ther point I was trying to make is that normally a top spec LP12 going to be WAY better than KDS (more or less regardless of the system) but not this time.
It was the rack that made the difference.

= Mimer is very good
No other conclutions should be made...

Regarding your other Q about upgrading rack or pre, I'm happy to own KDS/KK mkII and not ADS/KK mkI so I don't need to consider my options!!
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Post by Linnofil »

I was at my dealer today to do some testing with a forummember on the Swedish Linnforum. (MP3 players/headphones.)

We started with testing the K. Radikal on the Harmoni Oden Rack and then switched to the Mimer Rack. It was simply an amazing difference! Santana was interesting on the Oden, but a bit complex and it was difficult to understand what some of the instruments where doing. With the Mimer it was like twisting a cameralens. All of a sudden the music snapped into focus. All instruments made sence. The plan was to switch back again, but we ended up playing music instead... The Mimer really is an amazing product. Klimax level!

System used: LP12SE w. Urika, KK/1, A2200, M.140
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Post by lejonklou »

Gah!

I believe what you're saying, Linnofil. I have a 3+1 rack on order (one Mimer shelf at the top) and already I have problems deciding what to put on that shelf... LP12 will bounce due to the floor, but it will probably be difficult to move it back to the QS wallshelf!

If I take the plunge and order a Radikal, it will need one too. And the phono stage and preamp (luckily they can sit side by side), they deserve one too. Sounds like a road that won't end until I have all Mimer shelves...

As this rack will be taken around to some interested customer's homes, I might occasionally have to live without it entirely. I've already decided to regard that as an educational downgrade experience. :wink:
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Post by Music Lover »

If you can Fredrik, I suggest a 2+2 rack so you have more options demoing it for customers.
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Post by Linnofil »

lejonklou wrote:If I get as pleased with it at home as I've been when I've heard it elsewhere, I will start selling this rack.
Interesting! Will you take care of international sales aswell? I have heard that this has been a problem, the inventor beeing a Linn/Lejonklou etc. retailer and is to busy with that to handle international sales. Will it be a Lejonklou branded product? (To bad for Linn that they missed this, they could have poured a lot of money on the inventor, bought the rights and sold the the Mimer rack as "Klimax Rakk" for £7000 for a four shelf version and made a handsome profit! ;) )
lejonklou wrote:One thing that I've perhaps mentioned is that I once compared Kinki MM stage (first version) on a standard Odin shelf with a Slipsik MM stage (version 3 or 4?) on a Mimer shelf. I had a hard time choosing between these, but I think Kinki was probably more enjoyable. When both were placed on the same shelf, Slipsik won easily.
Did you mean to to say the reverse, Slipsik 3/4 on Oden and Kinki 1 on Mimer?
lejonklou wrote:I have a 3+1 rack on order (one Mimer shelf at the top) and already I have problems deciding what to put on that shelf
What a dilemma! Why not listen to Music Lover? :)
lejonklou wrote:If I take the plunge and order a Radikal, it will need one too. And the phono stage and preamp (luckily they can sit side by side), they deserve one too. Sounds like a road that won't end until I have all Mimer shelves...
Yes, fortunately! :mrgreen:
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Post by lejonklou »

Harmonihyllan won't be a Lejonklou branded product, as I haven't been involved in any part of it's making. I will try to arrange shipments abroad.
Did you mean to to say the reverse, Slipsik 3/4 on Oden and Kinki 1 on Mimer?
Yes, thanks! Will correct that.
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Post by Charlie1 »

Lejonklou wrote:I will try to arrange shipments abroad.
I'm not sure the Mimer will work properly in the UK climate - all that rain and low level cloud. If you send me one I'll see if I can spare some time to check it out :D

A 2+2 Mimer sounds more tempting than ever. I could downgrade my 6100 to 2250 to help finance one, but after reading Fredrik's experiences going passive I don't think I'll go there, especially as most of my listening is low volume.

I can't even downgrade my 10 year old saab - unless I want to use a bicycle. Let's face it - I only have my body left to sell which means I'm totally stuffed - or maybe I will go Slipsik/Adikt when the Akiva dies (cries of outrage!!! ?)
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Post by Music Lover »

Charlie1 wrote:
Lejonklou wrote:I will try to arrange shipments abroad.
I'm not sure the Mimer will work properly in the UK climate - all that rain and low level cloud.
So low you cant see the top shelf...and that on the good days. :roll:
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Post by ThomasOK »

All this Mimer discussion certainly has me interested, but has brought up a couple of questions.

First off, it has always been my experience that the LP12 has been best served being sited on a separate stand without other components. I currently use an Archidee which is the best I've yet found, and before that I used an AudioTech which is the second best. Interestingly, while I found the LP12 to sound the best on these floor stands, other components like the Klimax Kontrol or the Ikemi are more musical on my Quadraspire rack. This has lead me to believe that the ideal stand for the LP12 may be different from the best one for everything else. (I recall someone else posting that they had found the same thing in comparison - that the AudioTech was better for the LP12 but the Quadraspire was better for other components - but I can't seem to find the post.)

Because of this I was wondering why there appears to be no separate turntable stand in the Harmony range. All I have seen are typically four shelf racks, often with an LP12 on top. Is there a separate turntable stand in the range or planned? Has anyone tried a Harmony rack with a Mimer shelf on top with an LP12 on it compared to the LP12 on a separate Audiotech or Archidee stand?

I was also wondering a bit more about how these stands work. In some ways the Oden appears similar to the Quadraspire in clamping wood shelves between aluminum posts. But I notice that the Oden and Mimer use solid wood instead of the veneered MDF of the Quadraspire. From some of the descriptions it sounds like there might be some kind of decoupling or isolation between shelves and the close-up photo shows that the Oden shelf isn't in direct contact with the posts. This makes me wonder how the rack goes together, what the feeling is for the solid wood vs. MDF and if there is any musical difference between the birch, cherry and ash shelves? Considering what I've found with plinths, it would surprise me if the woods all sound the same.

I look forward to reading Fredrik's comments once he has the Mimer/Oden rack. Considering the positive comments so far it certainly sounds like something I should look into. And since I need to resize my rack for my new components anyway (bigger but fewer) I have a good excuse to go a different direction. Of course, I will also need the funds! :)
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Post by Charlie1 »

It would be really good if we could get some thread input from Anders himself. I'm interested in the product as well and perhaps others on the forum too. I'm particularly curious about the point raised by Thomas regarding LP12 and Klimax units having been better suited to different table/rack design approaches, in his experience.
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Post by lejonklou »

I agree it would be very valuable to get Anders direct comments on this, but I expect him to be reluctant. Never seen him posting on any forum and he's very careful with making absolute claims about how things work. Mostly he demonstrates and lets the customer decide what he/she thinks.

I know that Anders has developed the Odin and Mimer shelves using both LP12 and Linn's digital sources. He is a vinyl enthusiast, so I expect the LP12 to have been used a lot. But it's easy to demonstrate the Mimer shelf with the DS players, so it definitely works for both! As I haven't been part of any development work, I have no idea whether the shelves are slightly more optimised for one source or whether they are a compromise.

I do know that both the machining and the dampening material below the Mimer shelves are optimised for feet standing at a certain distance from each other. The feet of both LP12 (with Trampolin), Klimax and Linn AV enclosures stand on the thinner surfaces between the reinforcements and not directly over the dampers. That's also why my small boxes sound better when standing to one side of the shelf, making room for two.

I will ask Anders whether he can shed some more light on this.
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Post by lejonklou »

ThomasOK wrote:Has anyone tried a Harmony rack with a Mimer shelf on top with an LP12 on it compared to the LP12 on a separate Audiotech or Archidee stand?
I have compared LP12 on Mimer with some other shelves that were in the store, mainly QS. I haven't made a direct comparison with Audiotech. But on a different occasion, I compared QS with Audiotech and that difference was certainly a LOT smaller than what I have experienced with QS versus Mimer (which sounds totally different and much better). I felt that both QS and Audiotech have a certain character that shines through and none of them have been fantastic. I have unfortunately never heard the Archidee stand.
This makes me wonder how the rack goes together, what the feeling is for the solid wood vs. MDF and if there is any musical difference between the birch, cherry and ash shelves?
I believe that the Odin shelves are held by spring washers that aren't completely tightened. There's an optimal torque at which they sound the best (sounds familiar, doesn't it?).

Anders have said that the solid wood shelves sound much better than MDF, provided they are treated right. Instead of the inherent dampening of MDF, solid wood needs exact dimensions and a lot of attention to how you bolt things together.

I also think that birch is the wood that has been used during the long and gradual development the rack. When I asked him, Anders was reluctant to say how the other woods differed in terms of performance, it seemed to me they were added to the range for aestetic reasons. Birch is clearly labelled as the standard shelf, while other woods are special order.
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Post by lejonklou »

I have talked to Anders and presented the questions that have appeared here. Apparently he has never contributed on any forum and thinks it's best to stick to that principle, because the internet can easily steal a lot of time. I understand that completely, as he has numerous emails to answer every day, a website that needs updating and now also a webshop. I don't want him to end up not having time to improve his products!

What he has decided to do, however, is to work on a FAQ for his rack. I hope that he'll address our questions there and will post a link here once it's up.

Might have my 1+3 Harmonihyllan next week! :D
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Post by ThomasOK »

All of that is good to hear. When you get your rack it would be great if you could post some photos of things like the underside of the Mimer shelf and of how it goes together. With the limited photos on the Tonläget site and the practical problems in viewing the units personally :) it is difficult to get a good idea of how they go together and how they are built.
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Post by Charlie1 »

Anyone heard this rack - supposed to use tune method to develop:

http://www.andante-largo.com/rigid_tabl ... glish.html

Also, anyone ever heard the Russ Andrews Tortlyte? That's supposed to be designed for the LP12
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Post by lejonklou »

That rack is really neat looking. Wonder how it sounds? There are just too many people these days that claim they've optimised their rack for the LP12 and used the Tune Method...

Just remembered that I've forgotten to review the new Tor shelf of Harmonihyllan. It's still not 100% finalised, as the connection between the two shelves still being optimised. But I will post a preliminary review soon, when I get it back from a customer who's trying it at home.
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Post by ThomasOK »

The Andante does look interesting, although not exactly cheap (it appears to sell form about $2000US to $3000US before shipping). I saw this a while back when perusing a Japanese Hi=Fi news site but the info was all in Japanese at the time - it is nice to have it in English. As is the case with Fredrik, I am a little leery of the claims of Tune-Method evaluation. Several companies have claimed this criteria for their stand/rack designs yet they all sound quite different.

What makes me most reticent about this stand is their clear statement that the LP12 sounds better on the stand without a Trampolin. Everyone I know using a quality, purpose-designed turntable stand, be it Archidee, AudioTech, Quadraspire, Sound Organisation, etc., has found that the Trampolin makes a significant improvement. Their claim that a Trampolin should not be used with any lightweight stand flies in the face of my experience and leads me to doubt them.
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Post by lejonklou »

Harmonihyllan update:

I got the Tor shelf long ago, but somehow forgot to write a proper review of it. Back then I had one Oden bottom shelf and above that, one of each model (Oden, Tor, Mimer). Tor was in a preliminary version and sounded a bit more controlled than Oden. I didn't think the difference between them was all that impressive, but on the other hand the upgrade from Oden to Tor didn't cost much. Mimer (in version 1.95) was in a class of its own. Totally superior, both musically and in sound.

If we skip some versions that Anders sent me to evaluate and fast forward to now, the latest models of Tor and Mimer have just been introduced. A nice thing about these upgrades is that the parts are inexpensive; washers and various self adhesive stuff. A drawback is that it takes a bit of time to add all the parts at the right places.

Tor is now in version 1.0 and the difference from the preliminary 0.9 version is that four washers have been replaced with eight new ones. And what a difference! I can hardly believe how much better Tor has become. And by a change of washers? Almost ridiculous. In my opinion, Tor is now much closer to Mimer than it is to Oden in terms of musicality.

Going from Oden to Tor 1.0, the timing, finesse and complexity of recordings becomes so obvious and easy to appreciate. At first, I felt it almost surpassed Mimer in these respects, and told Anders about my impression. He calmly said this was not the case and that I should let the rack settle and listen a bit more. Well, he was right of course. Mimer really is better in all respects. It avoids the exaggerations that one quickly grows tired of (a lot of racks I've heard have had those). Tor combines detail, grunt and solidity. Mimer is like a clear river. Tor impresses, Mimer doesn't really bother to.

Worth noting is the price of these shelves. Mimer costs a lot. Oden and Tor are not that far apart, but the difference in performance is huge. This makes Tor fantastic value for money.

Currently I feel that I don't know what to place on my two Oden shelves. Moving a unit to the Tor shelf above them is more or less irreversible: The music is immediately more fun and alive. I have therefore decided to upgrade both my Oden shelves to Tor, making it a 3 Tor + 1 Mimer shelf.

Today I received an envelope from Anders with the latest washers that will bring Mimer up to version 2.2. Apparently this is an upgrade similar to the one on Tor. Will report what this brings once I've installed them.
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Post by Linnofil »

Thanks for the report Fredrik, very interesting stuff! Mr Simonsson is the magic man when it comes to racks. Got to hear it to belive it!
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Re: Rack

Post by Discodave »

Old thread, new query.

Im interested in any thoughts on value hifi racks that wont break the bank. Those described here sound great but way out of my league, in money and my setup.

At present Ive a very basic Ikea TV table set up which is cheap but very cheerful ro my ears.

Also, having had to move my system yet again, the floor is a tad too bouncy and i have to tiptoe about so as not to needle jump. Pah!

I would rather not go for a wall rack so what standalone rack do folks rate for their LP12 or given my floor is a wall rack the only sensible option.

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LP12, Lingo 3, Cirkus/Kore, Tramp 2, Basik Plus Ania, Linto
Majik Ds, Kisto, Tundra 2.0, Majik 109
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Re: Rack

Post by Tony Tune-age »

Discodave wrote: 2021-03-28 01:10I would rather not go for a wall rack so what standalone rack do folks rate for their LP12 or given my floor is a wall rack the only sensible option.
As for a independent LP12 turntable stand, I would recommend the NOKTable. It sounds better than The Sound Organization, AudioTech and Archidee turntable stands. And the NOKTable sounds better than any wall rack that I'm aware of at this time.
You can read more about it on the Nokturneaudio.com website.

Cheers
Tony Tune-age
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