The sound of media servers (and of various formats)

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luigip
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The sound of media servers (and of various formats)

Post by luigip »

Before ripping by CD collection, I browsed several reports in this forum on the sound of various formats, the ripping s/w and media streamers. I find that in my set up, recently upgraded to Klimax DS Katalist (Davaar v.52) the uncompressed formats sound better than the compressed lossless, and I also find that WAV sounds consistently better than AIFF. I will report on my tests (still on going) in another thread, I believe that the difference is linked to the different processing load affecting the analog stage of the Klimax DS. Uncompressing the data(e.g. ALAC) requires more data processing, but also the difference between WAV and AIFF, less obvious, can be attributed to the same reason, being the byte order swapped (AIFF is big endian, WAV little endian).

Following these findings I planned to rip all my CD into WAV, but then I find that twonky (version 8.2) does not recognize the tags (such as author, album, etc.). I checked that the tags are actually present in the wav files, (e.g. they are visible with MAX, and that other s/w server such as Miminserver do recognize properly them. So the issue is with Twonky.

The obvious step was then switch to Minimserver, that has two further advantages: a better tagging for classical music and an easy implementation of transcoding on-the-fly, including the possibility to generate 24 bit wav files (by padding to 0 the least significant bits), that I find to sound better than the original 16 bit (again likely due to less processing in the Klimax that uses 24 bits data stream).

I was happily starting to use Minimserver (installed on my NAS) but then Paolo instilled a doubt on the sound of Minimserver vs Twonky

Thus I run a set of test comparing the two media servers using uncompressed formats: AIFF and WAV. My verdict is that, on my system,
Twonky sounds better, clearer highs, and a good bass line. Instruments are better localized, less haze. Minimserver seems to have a punchier bass, but with less clarity, kind of mushy compared to the twonky, due to more added noise, it is more difficult to feel the tune. It would be interesting to know if other members of this forum had similar results.

I carried out another test, with Minim server transcoding on-the-fly an Alac file into a Wav 24 bits . The difference is now smaller, highs and mids are slightly more transparent with Minimserver but the music lacks bass.


At this point, wanting to retain the best musicality using Twonky there are two options, and I would appreciate advice from experts out there
a) How (if at all possible) solve the tagging issue of wav files with Twonky. The tags are there, simply Twonky does not reads/recognize.
b) Store the files in, say, flac or alac but implement a transcoding on-the-fly to WAV in Twonky for the best musicality. I understand, googling around, that this is possible, but it looks not trivial.


Cheers
Luigi
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Re: The sound of media servers (and of various formats)

Post by ChrBea »

I never did compare both servers under the same circumstances, but I was/am running Twonky on my backup-NAS (Netgear) and MinimServer on my "Music-NAS" (Qnap), all files are FLAC but I have MinimServer set to transcode everything to WAV24. This gives me clearly better results.
But as I have stated above, I have never tried Twonky on my Qnap, nor have I tried WAV files with Twonky.
LP12 Kore-KRad-Majik Tonearm-Slipsik 8 & KDS/3 > Sagatun & Tundra Monos 3 > A242
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Re: The sound of media servers (and of various formats)

Post by luigip »

Hi, thanks for the feeback, I did another experiment, with Minimserver, comparing 24 bits versions on disk (generated by a flac file with MAX) and the one transcoded on-the-fly to 24 bits from the same flac file.
Well, there are difference, not huge, but discernible, with the transcoded on-the-fly delivering a bit more transparency in the highs and the 24bits on disk with more “body” and punch, more in tune. I guess it is a matter of taste, with my current set-up, the 24bits on disk version sounds better, but I am aware that my present NAS, the QNAP HS251 sounds rather analytical compared to the fan-equipped version (TS251+), that I have just ordered, so I plan to re-do the tests as soon as it arrives
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Re: The sound of media servers (and of various formats)

Post by erho »

Also interested, which media server is recommended by Lejonklou forum members? Would be very interesting if there really exist differences....
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Re: The sound of media servers (and of various formats)

Post by tokenbrit »

Differences definitely exist. My dealer, when I was in the UK, demonstrated the difference between NASs (Naim servers if I recall...) Obvious difference between servers and between hdd & ssd. The demo was not Linn approved as it didn't fit with their lossless is lossless message, but that's another discussion :)
Recommended NAS is not a proprietary product - search for LSNAS on here. If you can't find the parts to build one for yourself, the Melco range is good.
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Re: The sound of media servers (and of various formats)

Post by erho »

tokenbrit, thanks but I know that, the question is if there exists differences between Twonky, Minimserver or Asset for example...?
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Re: The sound of media servers (and of various formats)

Post by tokenbrit »

I want to say yes but will leave it to others to confirm... or deny :) I know that different ripping hardware & software makes a difference. So do different formats. Those that have built their own NASs have reported differences from OS settings.... It seems quite possible, and plausible, that there could/ would be musical differences between available server software solutions, including software settings.
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Re: The sound of media servers (and of various formats)

Post by Erik »

erho wrote:Also interested, which media server is recommended by Lejonklou forum members? Would be very interesting if there really exist differences....
Everything counts, and the server is important.
Search for "LSNAS" and you will find a lot of information.
I find Twonky less musical than other softwares. I prefer Asset.

Rippig software also influence the result. I use EAC for best result.

/Erik
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Re: The sound of media servers (and of various formats)

Post by luigip »

[
erho wrote:tokenbrit, thanks but I know that, the question is if there exists differences between Twonky, Minimserver or Asset for example...?
Yes, I do find significant differences between Twonly and Minimserver as described at the top of this thread, now going to test Asset following Erik's suggestion
Erik wrote:I find Twonky less musical than other softwares. I prefer Asset.
Erik, does Asset provide on-the-fly transcoding?
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Re: The sound of media servers (and of various formats)

Post by erho »

Have you tested Asset?
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Re: The sound of media servers (and of various formats)

Post by erho »

Erik wrote:
erho wrote:Also interested, which media server is recommended by Lejonklou forum members? Would be very interesting if there really exist differences....
Everything counts, and the server is important.
Search for "LSNAS" and you will find a lot of information.
I find Twonky less musical than other softwares. I prefer Asset.

Rippig software also influence the result. I use EAC for best result.

/Erik
Hi Erik, please could you make a picture of your browse tree settings from Asset and upload it for me or send it per mail?
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Re: The sound of media servers (and of various formats)

Post by luigip »

erho wrote:Have you tested Asset?
Plan to do so end of this week, when back from abroad for work...
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Re: The sound of media servers (and of various formats)

Post by erho »

luigip wrote:
erho wrote:Have you tested Asset?
Plan to do so end of this week, when back from abroad for work...
Hi man, have you tested it yet? What do you think?
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Re: The sound of media servers (and of various formats)

Post by luigip »

I was able to mount Asset on my NAS and started doing some tests.

Asset sounds as minimserver, i.e. compared to Twonky it has more bass, richer in harmonics, may be a bit more coloured and muddier than twonky, instrument are a bit more difficult to localize, yet the sound is very pleasant. With twonky is easier to follow the rhythm of the music and it sounds more as live music, Asset sound is sweeter, a bit coloured (?), but fuller in harmonics.

With 24 transcoding the Asset sound improves, less hazy and more focalize not yet as twonky (at 16 bits) though, but now it is a matter of taste, still twonky (wav16 bits) has more 3d instrument localization and easier to follow the tune.

At this point I still have to carry out a comparison with both servers at 24 bit, but my preliminary opinion is that Asset sound is pretty good, and the decision on Twonky vs Asset is more of a personal taste. To my like I would still give an edge to Twonky. One thing one should also consider is that the results are also likely depeding on the software version of the renderer, so it may well be that the sound “character” changes with different s/w versions ( I am using v 54 on a DS Katalyst)

Hope this helps

L.
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Re: The sound of media servers (and of various formats)

Post by erho »

luigip wrote:I was able to mount Asset on my NAS and started doing some tests.

Asset sounds as minimserver, i.e. compared to Twonky it has more bass, richer in harmonics, may be a bit more coloured and muddier than twonky, instrument are a bit more difficult to localize, yet the sound is very pleasant. With twonky is easier to follow the rhythm of the music and it sounds more as live music, Asset sound is sweeter, a bit coloured (?), but fuller in harmonics.

With 24 transcoding the Asset sound improves, less hazy and more focalize not yet as twonky (at 16 bits) though, but now it is a matter of taste, still twonky (wav16 bits) has more 3d instrument localization and easier to follow the tune.

At this point I still have to carry out a comparison with both servers at 24 bit, but my preliminary opinion is that Asset sound is pretty good, and the decision on Twonky vs Asset is more of a personal taste. To my like I would still give an edge to Twonky. One thing one should also consider is that the results are also likely depeding on the software version of the renderer, so it may well be that the sound “character” changes with different s/w versions ( I am using v 54 on a DS Katalyst)

Hope this helps

L.
Yes, thanks, so on your system and software you prefer Twonky. I find Asset more musical than Minimserver on my system (Majik DSM/3) and v55 with QNAP TS-251+. But it seems that I now have to test out Twonky also.
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Re: The sound of media servers (and of various formats)

Post by erho »

@luigip

any news now, have you found the for you most musical one?
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