Tiger Paw Tranquility

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Tiger Paw Tranquility

Post by matthias »

What do you think about this?

http://www.tiger-paw.com/tranquility

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Re: Tiger Paw Tranquility

Post by beck »

This most be one of those try, listen and comment things. Would be interesting to hear what people here think.
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Re: Tiger Paw Tranquility

Post by matthias »

beck wrote:This most be one of those try, listen and comment things. Would be interesting to hear what people here think.
Some discussion on the LiFo and here:

http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/show ... p?t=197452

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Re: Tiger Paw Tranquility

Post by ThomasOK »

Interesting device. It sounds like it might work. I'm a little concerned about any damping effect the rubber O rings have on the inner platter although it is certainly less than I would expect from any adhesive. However, this is not a unique application of the idea. The Continuum Caliburn used opposing magnets ten years ago to reduce the weight their 84lb platter put on the ball and thrust plate to 6lbs. This was said to minimize wear on the bearing while still keeping the platter mechanically grounded. Sounds like the same theory to me.
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Re: Tiger Paw Tranquility

Post by matthias »

ThomasOK wrote:Interesting device. It sounds like it might work. I'm a little concerned about any damping effect the rubber O rings have on the inner platter although it is certainly less than I would expect from any adhesive. However, this is not a unique application of the idea. The Continuum Caliburn used opposing magnets ten years ago to reduce the weight their 84lb platter put on the ball and thrust plate to 6lbs. This was said to minimize wear on the bearing while still keeping the platter mechanically grounded. Sounds like the same theory to me.
AFAIK, the first turntable that used this principle from the beginning was the original Platine Verdier. One could choose to have full magnetic support so that the tip of the spindle did not touch the opposing part of the bearing or to put a stainless steel ball into the bearing to provide a minimal pressure on the opposing part.
Anyway the Tranquility seems to be the first retrofit magnetic support for an existing bearing.

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Re: Tiger Paw Tranquility

Post by matthias »

ThomasOK wrote:Interesting device. It sounds like it might work.
Thomas,
it would be very much appreciated to get your feedback on the Tranquility.
Are you interested to write a review for us?

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Re: Tiger Paw Tranquility

Post by ThomasOK »

I would certainly be interested to hear one and I'd be glad to report on it. I am always interested in anything that would improve the musical abilities of the LP12. From reading the other forum it eventually became clear how it fits the turntable (though it took a long time for them to adequately explain it) and it does seem to be a simple fit with no significant changes required of the LP12 to install or remove it. So I have no concerns there.

The only question is whether I will get the opportunity. I like Roger and have had some good discussions with him but I haven't been able to give positive reviews to the early items I tested.
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Re: Tiger Paw Tranquility

Post by matthias »

ThomasOK wrote:The only question is whether I will get the opportunity.
Chris Harban is TPA dealer in the US, maybe he will get one ?

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Tranquility

Post by Ron The Mon »

matthias,
I nominate you to properly tune-dem evaluate the Tiger Paw Tranquility and report those tune-dem evaluations on the Lejonklou, Linn, Pink Fish and many other forums you visit. Your words are more frequently spewn world-wide than any other member here. You have a reputation to uphold.

If you instigate a "Kickstarter", I will throw in twenty bucks. I am sure there are another twenty members here willing to do the same. Remember, you have a reputation to uphold.

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Re: Tiger Paw Tranquility

Post by Charlie1 »

I hope David W has a chance to look into something similar. Do you think it puts Linn in an awkward position having to follow a third party, or won't they care too much? How tricky will it be to avoid any patent? I don't know much about such things but thought you can achieve the same end result, but it has to be a different 'means whereby' you achieve the same result.

Gonna see how the dust settles on the Tranquility. Similar to Matthias, I am hoping someone I have learned to trust will hear one first since I'm in no hurry and I'm generally lazy. It's a great price point though for an upgrade though.
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Re: Tiger Paw Tranquility

Post by matthias »

Charlie1 wrote:I hope David W has a chance to look into something similar. Do you think it puts Linn in an awkward position having to follow a third party, or won't they care too much?
If Linn are smart and I am sure they are, they will go beyond the Tranquility and design a retro-fit Direct Drive LP12. I think there should be enough space under the inner platter to have a two part motor mounted in a similar way like the Tranquility.
Now, as in the third party section of the Linn forum a new bearing has been introduced, maybe Linn will show up with a new LP12 bearing?
IMO, Linn should not leave the field to the third party manufacturers.

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Re: Tiger Paw Tranquility

Post by ThomasOK »

Charlie1 wrote:I hope David W has a chance to look into something similar. Do you think it puts Linn in an awkward position having to follow a third party, or won't they care too much? How tricky will it be to avoid any patent? I don't know much about such things but thought you can achieve the same end result, but it has to be a different 'means whereby' you achieve the same result.

Gonna see how the dust settles on the Tranquility. Similar to Matthias, I am hoping someone I have learned to trust will hear one first since I'm in no hurry and I'm generally lazy. It's a great price point though for an upgrade though.
I would expect that, if David W likes the way it works, Linn would implement it differently. For instance, as Linn they would have the ability to mount magnets directly in a new inner platter/spindle if they wished rather than attach them with an O-ring. I don't think there could be a patent except on the exact implementation as this idea has obviously already been done before.

By the way I talked to Chris Harban last week, to order a couple of plinths among other things, and he no longer distributes the Tiger Paw stuff so he doesn't have any of the Tranquility units. I don't honestly know where that leaves the US market - it might be a direct buy kind of thing for the time being. I do have some interest in it as I can see how it could work. Also one big advantage is that it doesn't require modification of the LP12 so it could be removed easily to move it to another turntable or if Linn did come out with their own upgrade that obviated the need for it.
Last edited by ThomasOK on 2017-03-03 13:20, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Tiger Paw Tranquility

Post by Charlie1 »

Thanks for your thoughts and info gents.
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Re: Tiger Paw Tranquility

Post by ThomasOK »

Well Matt, It looks like you got your wish - at least partially. I will not call this a full review as I only had a few hours Friday evening and Saturday morning at work to listen to the Tranquility but I was able to do some comparisons for myself and the person who ordered it. A customer of mine who had ordered an Ekos SE/1 for his otherwise full Klimax LP12 with Movingui plinth also ordered a Tranquility from another dealer in the US who had a couple. He then had it shipped to me to evaluate before he brought his LP12s up on Saturday for fitting the new arm.

The Tranquility is well made and fits a current LP12 quite well. It also has some measure of adjustability that I did experiment with although there is a certain way it is recommended it be set and that is how it came out of the box. I did the listening on the store Klimax LP12 with Linn Walnut plinth on NOKTable stand. Unfortunately I was not completely happy with the results. It definitely has a different sound than without it although the frequency balance seems about the same. It took me a few A/Bs to really nail down what I was hearing. To me the Tranquility has a smoother sound than the LP12 without it but it seems to do this by flattening out the music coming through. Due to limited time I was only able to use two records to do the comparisons: Loreena McKennitt "The Visit" (in particular "Tango to Evora") and Jethro Tull "Aqualung" (mostly "Locomotive Breath" as used in the Tarandus comparisons I recently posted). What I found is that the dynamics that bring music to life seemed to be muted and the textures of the playing of the instruments had a more smeared quality. The music was just not as powerful nor did it move you as much as it did without the Tranquility. In some ways you might say that the Tranquility was taking back some of the musical clarity that the Sagatun 1.3 upgrade brings to the table.

To further investigate how this worked I tried adjusting it. The collar that fits around the bearing housing is threaded to allow the magnetic disk to be raised or lowered, I assume to cover any difference there might be in inner platter height. From what I have read the idea is to get the two magnetic disks as close together as possible without them rubbing against each other. So I tried adjusting it a little bit to bring them closer but then they were rubbing. I readjusted it about half way back and still a slight rubbing. So I set it back to where it was when it came out of the box and no rubbing. This is what was supposed to be optimum from my understanding. I listened again and heard the same thing. So I tried adjusting it the other way just to see what would happen if I moved the magnets farther away from each other and listened again. I still heard basically the same sonic signature although the amount of it seemed to be reduced a little. I still found the music more tuneful and powerful without it.

That was all I had time for Friday and I had an appointment at a customers that night so I didn't have time to try it on my setup at home. I returned the bottom plate to the original position and verified no rubbing then put it back in the box. Saturday my customer came up from Ohio to have me work on his LP12s (one getting the Ekos SE/1 with a Kandid and Urika transferred from the other which ended up with his Aro and his Adikt, both having Radikals and Keels). When he came in he asked me what I thought and I said I wasn't convinced. I asked if he wanted to hear the comparison on our LP12 and he said he would. So I did a couple of A/Bs for him using the same music. He wasn't familiar with Loreena McKennitt so he heard one new piece of music and one he was familiar with. After listening back and forth a few times he said he really didn't care for the Tranquility and reported the same basic problems of loss of musicality and dynamics. It just didn't get you into the music as well. So I showed him how to fit it and boxed it up and he took it home. He intends to try it some more in the context of his system but has the ability to return it if he doesn't like it. I expect he will let me know what he ends up thinking about it.

I would like to have had more time to try it on a few different turntables and make sure I was getting the best it was capable of but that wasn't in the cards this time. So this is not as exhaustive an evaluation as I would have liked.

By the way, the customer who effectively had me swap an Aro for an Ekos SE/1 texted me back shortly after he arrived home "The Ekos SE is really something." :-)
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Re: Tiger Paw Tranquility

Post by matthias »

Thomas,
thank you very much.
You know you are the Linn retailer whose verdict I trust the most regarding third party manufacturers LP12 parts.
Am I right the only 3rd party LP12 parts you could endorse so far were CH plinths and the Rubikon?

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Re: Tiger Paw Tranquility

Post by ThomasOK »

Thank you. Yes, you are correct. I liked the Rubikon better than the steel Cirkus subchassis/laminated armboard although I don't believe it is up to Kore level. I definitely like CH plinths although some woods better than others, as I have posted here. I have not tested anywhere near all the plinth woods he has used but I believe an Ebony one I had my hands on would have rated highly as well. However, wood being a natural material can make it fickle. I have one customer who has a Movingui plinth which, while still good was not as good as I am used to, and did not perform as well as a Linn cross-braced Afromosia he had a woodworking friend true up.

A little addendum to my review. I received a message back from the customer who had purchased it. It is as follows: "My experience at home confirmed what I heard in Ann Arbor, using different electronics and speakers. I thought the Tranquility deadened the recording and made it sound less like live music. Perhaps some systems benefit from that, but your Lejonklou and my Naim do not." His system is active Isobarik DMS with Naim electronics (I think 250s or 135s) with the Klimax LP12 I just put the Ekos SE/1 on.
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Re: Tiger Paw Tranquility

Post by matthias »

ThomasOK wrote:I liked the Rubikon better than the steel Cirkus subchassis/laminated armboard although I don't believe it is up to Kore level.
Thomas,
if you get the opportunity to listen to the TP Akula sub chassis, please send me a PM with your verdict.
IMO, it is the most interesting TP product, but there is no serious review about it.
Thanks.

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Re: Tiger Paw Tranquility

Post by Music Lover »

ThomasOK wrote: Perhaps some systems benefit from that, but your Lejonklou and my Naim do not." His system is active Isobarik DMS with Naim electronics (I think 250s or 135s) with the Klimax LP12 I just put the Ekos SE/1 on.
What is his view on Lejonklou elektronics and JBL 3677 compared to his system?
Given the amps I guess he use a 52 pre.
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Re: Tiger Paw Tranquility

Post by matthias »

Music Lover wrote:
ThomasOK wrote: Perhaps some systems benefit from that, but your Lejonklou and my Naim do not." His system is active Isobarik DMS with Naim electronics (I think 250s or 135s) with the Klimax LP12 I just put the Ekos SE/1 on.
What is his view on Lejonklou elektronics and JBL 3677 compared to his system?
Given the amps I guess he use a 52 pre.
BTW, has someone compared NAC52 to Sagatun Monos?

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Re: Tiger Paw Tranquility

Post by ThomasOK »

matthias wrote:
Music Lover wrote:
ThomasOK wrote: Perhaps some systems benefit from that, but your Lejonklou and my Naim do not." His system is active Isobarik DMS with Naim electronics (I think 250s or 135s) with the Klimax LP12 I just put the Ekos SE/1 on.
What is his view on Lejonklou elektronics and JBL 3677 compared to his system?
Given the amps I guess he use a 52 pre.
BTW, has someone compared NAC52 to Sagatun Monos?

Matt
Not yet but I'm working on it.

I'm not sure which preamp he has. He has enjoyed the sound of the Lejonklou gear that he has heard in the store. But he hasn't heard the full Mono setup nor the JBLs yet as they are at my house about 30 minutes away. In time it may happen.
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Re: Tiger Paw Tranquility

Post by Charlie1 »

Thanks for sharing your experiences Thomas. Really helpful.
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Re: Tiger Paw Tranquility

Post by beck »

Charlie1 wrote:Thanks for sharing your experiences Thomas. Really helpful.
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Re: Tiger Paw Tranquility

Post by matthias »

Very interesting to follow the latest posts on the Linn forum.

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Re: Tiger Paw Tranquility

Post by beck »

Here is one of the later posts from the linn forum about Tiger Paw Tranquility:

RE: Tiger Paw Tranquility
(2017-03-07 13:26)Ian Wilkinson Wrote:
(2017-03-07 12:28)What You See and Hear Wrote:
Hi

We have an interesting test here and have set this up for a couple of our own clients to assess what the Tranquility is doing.

Two LP12's which are of medium specification on identical Isoblue stands.

Both Have:

Unworn Cirkus Bearings,(VERY important)
Shared Lingo 3
Kore
Consecutive S/No Akito 3B tone-arms
Adikt cartridge with shared stylus.
Shared Uphorik phono-stage.
Klimax Exakt DSM
Klimax Exakt 350.

The two decks are set up optimally and and sound near as dammit the same. They can be auditioned on their own before the Tranquility is fitted to one or if wished we can already have it fitted on one. The interesting thing is not knowing which one has the Tranquility and this allows the true merit to be clearly heard without any prior expectations. We can for fun give the listener a sealed envelope with the answer as to which it is fitted to before the demonstration commences.

We are happy to demonstrate this to anyone who is interested as currently there appear to be few stockists.

I get on well with Roger and he told me about this development some months ago. I heard a prototype early on his own deck it was clear that, although the deck was very heavily modified from a standard LP12 he appeared to be onto something interesting.

I will post this with more information on our website in due course.

Regards

Interesting blind test.

There must be many of us, myself included, waiting results.

Perhaps spread over a number of people rather than a couple if possible

Keep us posted!

Ian

Hi

A month has passed and I can report results.

We had little interest and only one person actually phoned to hear the comparison. The massive thread here does not necessarily translate to the real world outside of the forum and so we gave the demonstration to visitors here over the period who came to us for other reasons, for example clients bringing LP12's for servicing and upgrades who were unaware of the Tranquility. Potential customers looking for a secondhand LP12. A client with a Linn/Naim system bringing his girlfriend over to buy a Naim Muso. Someone thinking of upgrading from Lejonklou phono-stage to a Uphorik.Our MD Steve and a couple of regular and local LP12 clients asked to bring their own music. Even someone working upstairs who heard me playing some Pefab Sprout, mentiong it when we were in our shared corridoor. Over the period where time was available about 15 people, some told and some not told that one deck was modified with an aftermarket product.

The Tranquility was over the period swopped between the two decks mentioned in my post but for 10 days we had two full Klimax LP12's with two Klimax Radikals instead. The system changed to Passive Akubariks for a time. The demonstrations were not done using the A/B method as this favours B and can be used as a sales technique. Instead a deck is chosen by the listener as a start point and then played A/A/B or B/B/A. Roger from TPA has a habit of sitting up and verbally interacting when playing a prototype on one deck previously on an A/B B/A basis but for our demonstrations I remained silent throughout maintaining the same body language. The music varied from part of my own large collection covering House/Jazz/Classical/Rock/Folk and the listener was also asked to choose a record and then arbritrarily name which track, ie side two track 3. I also bought some new additions from the Charity shop the last being a Phillips St-Martin-in-the-Fields Mozart Horn Concertos.

In every demonstration the listener preferred the LP12 without the Tranquility. There were no exceptions.

One client brought his LP12 to change from a Dynavector DV20XL to a Krystal. A friend of both Paul Stephenson and Charlie Brennan from Arcam he was recommended to me several years ago and having previously distributed Clearaudio turntables in the UK and being the manufacturer of a quality speaker system he now owns an LP12 of very high spec. He was very critical instantly disliking the Tranqility which was deck B on his demonstration, declaring that for him it didn't represent why he finally bought an LP12 after many years of owning other high end turntables.

When our MD Steve heard it we played a track from Joni Mitchell's "Shadows and Light" with the Klimax decks and Tranquility was deck B. He was much more musically involved with deck A. He then chose a UB40 album which owned previously and when "Red Red Wine" was played on Deck B Tranquility we were both impressed and he said that it sounded great. It Did. We then went back to deck A. Wow that's much better still being funkier, deeper and with better harmoised vocals which hit higher more correct pitch. Again without knowing which was which the deck without the Tranquility was preferred as it did for everyone else.

The very first person to hear the difference postulated that the Tranquility seems to have been designed for a "problem" that doesn't actually exist. It ticks boxes being a great idea well executed but there seems to be more happening here than the simple idea of a "quieter bearing allowing more music to be heard".

A dealer said on another forum that he hopes that some of the "stalwart" Linn dealers take an interest in this non-Linn product as "after all it's all about the music". In business though for some it might be more about the money. I only need recommend this to our database and get behind the Tranquility and sales of only a hundred would put forty thouand pounds into the till which would be very nice indeed. This demonstration is still available but many have bought into the Tranquility blind anyway and one eBay seller has sold six already so for some a fair demonstration isn't actually wanted. Taking a punt does no harm as it's not expensive but I do wonder how many will eventually be taken off and put back on eBay later if the results we have here are anything to go by.

Regards.
Colin Macey. WYSAH Beaconsfield.

www.whatyouseeandhear.com
www.wysah.com
01494 681300.
email colin@wysah.com
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Re: Tiger Paw Tranquility

Post by matthias »

Sorry beck,
I think in such cases of a composite post with several contributors it is better to place a link to the original post
http://forums.linn.co.uk/bb/showthread. ... #pid433951
than just copy and paste it (the layout gets lost).

Anyway interesting!

Matt
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