Tiger Paw Tranquility

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matthias
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Re: Tiger Paw Tranquility

Post by matthias »

From the hifikabin forum:

Re: Tigerpaw Tranquility
Post by FangfossFlyer » Sun Apr 09, 2017 9:00 pm:
Well, I had a home dem on Thursday and will be having a home loan sometime soon. It was interesting with a lot I liked but some things I missed.
My wife who had a blind listening test preferred one piece of music with it (The Beatles: Abbey Road) and one without it (John Martyn: The Church With One Bell) then very insightfully said "I suppose that it depends on what you are looking for in your system".... and that sums a lot of it up!


Sorry, the post could not be linked.

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Re: Tiger Paw Tranquility

Post by Music Lover »

I read ThomasOk review many weeks back.
That was enough for me.

Having said that, this thread was enjoyable to read.
It's all about musical understanding!
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Re: Tiger Paw Tranquility

Post by beck »

matthias wrote:From the hifikabin forum:

Re: Tigerpaw Tranquility
Post by FangfossFlyer » Sun Apr 09, 2017 9:00 pm:
Well, I had a home dem on Thursday and will be having a home loan sometime soon. It was interesting with a lot I liked but some things I missed.
My wife who had a blind listening test preferred one piece of music with it (The Beatles: Abbey Road) and one without it (John Martyn: The Church With One Bell) then very insightfully said "I suppose that it depends on what you are looking for in your system".... and that sums a lot of it up!


Sorry, the post could not be linked.

Matt
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Re: Tiger Paw Tranquility

Post by matthias »

Hi guys,

I found two clips with and without the TQ:

http://www.audioflat.co.uk/phpBB3/viewt ... ?f=7&t=687

What do you think, which one is better with the Tune Method?

Thanks

Matt
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Re: Tiger Paw Tranquility

Post by jewa »

Tiger Paw is more out of tune.

/jrr
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Re: Tiger Paw Tranquility

Post by beck »

I just love the Tranq when it is not being used on the Sondek. Then the music is great! :-)

The Tranq clip is out of tune and the music looses physical punch (listening to the first set of clips).
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Re: Tiger Paw Tranquility

Post by lejonklou »

Thank you Matt!

That is a very interesting comparison.
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Re: Tiger Paw Tranquility

Post by tokenbrit »

Interesting reading the SQ review and subsequent comments, and trying to relate them to the sound clips...
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Re: Tiger Paw Tranquility

Post by John »

Neither one sounds particularly good.
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Re: Tiger Paw Tranquility

Post by ThomasOK »

I agree that neither is a wonderful sounding clip. However, the Tranquility clip is considerably less wonderful musically. With the other clip I can at least get into the flow of the music a bit and the cymbals aren't annoying. Nothing new or surprising to me here.
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Re: Tiger Paw Tranquility

Post by matthias »

matthias wrote:Hi guys,
I found two clips with and without the TQ:
http://www.audioflat.co.uk/phpBB3/viewt ... ?f=7&t=687
What do you think, which one is better with the Tune Method?
Thanks
Matt
Hi guys,
please read the last posts of the link and listen to the clips again.
The non-TQ file had the wrong file size which is now fixed.
IMO, the differences are even more apparent.
Thanks

Matt
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Re: Tiger Paw Tranquility

Post by beck »

The quality of the clips change nothing. The Tranq is just another in a long road of failed attempts to "better" the Sondek.
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Re: Tiger Paw Tranquility

Post by FangfossFlyer »

Hi,

As someone observed earlier I had an extended home dem of the Tranquility back in April with mixed results.

It went back to The Sound Org (York) and I opted for a new bearing on my LP12 with great results... but that is another story that caused some flare ups on another forum!

Anyway, enjoying my music even more than ever before so I must be crazy as I am contemplating trying it again!

Richard
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Re: Tiger Paw Tranquility

Post by flatpopely »

Hello all!

I recorded those files on my LP12.

IMHO the tranq allows more detail and timbre through as well as keeping the musicality of the LP12 intact.

I've had it for a few weeks and then took it off.......in my system it's worse without!

Some parts of the subtle texture of the music are lost, you cannot hear them.
With the tranq the tune dem musicality is there but with extra micro and macro detail.
I've listened to loads of LP12s.
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Re: Tiger Paw Tranquility

Post by flatpopely »

beck wrote:The quality of the clips change nothing. The Tranq is just another in a long road of failed attempts to "better" the Sondek.
Are only Linn upgrades good?
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Re: Tiger Paw Tranquility

Post by flatpopely »

ThomasOK wrote:I agree that neither is a wonderful sounding clip. However, the Tranquility clip is considerably less wonderful musically. With the other clip I can at least get into the flow of the music a bit and the cymbals aren't annoying. Nothing new or surprising to me here.

In what way are the clips bad?
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Re: Tiger Paw Tranquility

Post by flatpopely »

John wrote:Neither one sounds particularly good.
Past agenda.........
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Re: Tiger Paw Tranquility

Post by flatpopely »

FangfossFlyer wrote:Hi,

As someone observed earlier I had an extended home dem of the Tranquility back in April with mixed results.

It went back to The Sound Org (York) and I opted for a new bearing on my LP12 with great results... but that is another story that caused some flare ups on another forum!

Anyway, enjoying my music even more than ever before so I must be crazy as I am contemplating trying it again!

Richard
You're more than welcome at mine for a with and without.
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Re: Tiger Paw Tranquility

Post by beck »

flatpopely wrote:
beck wrote:The quality of the clips change nothing. The Tranq is just another in a long road of failed attempts to "better" the Sondek.
Are only Linn upgrades good?
Welcome flatpopely!

Thank you for making the clips. They are very useful. Read the link below to get an idea of why we comment your clips like we do:

http://www.lejonklou.com/wp-content/upl ... Method.pdf

I am trying to retire from internet forums so do not expect me to answer any further questions.

Enjoy your hifi. Regards
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Re: Tiger Paw Tranquility

Post by u252agz »

Much, much better without Tranquility.

I agree that there is a huge difference between the first two clips- it would be interesting to see if the difference is that marked in the flesh.
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Re: Tiger Paw Tranquility

Post by tokenbrit »

flatpopely wrote:Hello all!

I recorded those files on my LP12.

IMHO the tranq allows more detail and timbre through as well as keeping the musicality of the LP12 intact.

I've had it for a few weeks and then took it off.......in my system it's worse without!

Some parts of the subtle texture of the music are lost, you cannot hear them.
With the tranq the tune dem musicality is there but with extra micro and macro detail.
I've listened to loads of LP12s.
Hi Flat, and welcome,

I'm curious: do you feel that the clips are representative of the differences you hear directly from your system, with & without the tranq? The general consensus of those here, who have posted on the clips, is that they do show differences, but there's clear musical preference for the clip without the tranq. Have you compared the clips and do you still prefer the presentation in the clip with the tranq, or do you get a different result between clips as opposed to from the system directly?

The reason I am curious is that there has been quite extensive use of clips, here, to compare changes. For the most part it seems that the clips still allow a sense of musical improvement, or degradation, to be determined, and that the results correlate to musicality of the system directly. If you feel that the clips are a fair representation of the differences, and that you feel they demonstrate that the tranq improves the musicality, then that's different to the consensus of those who have posted here. There's nothing wrong with that, of course, but it allows us to get a sense of whether the different results are due to the clips, or down to the way that people listen and different personal preferences...

Personally, I fell the clips do demonstrate "more detail" with the Tranquility, but that this changes the balance and takes away from the musicality. Whatever the preference, I am grateful for the clips - that's why I asked the questions above. No problem if we have different impressions & preferences, just interesting to understand if that's down the clips being unrepresentative, or it's down to individual preference for a particular presentation.

The tranq is not my preference (based on the clips) but I respect your opinion. Your system; your ears; your pleasure. Peace (& tranquility ... or not ;)
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Re: Tiger Paw Tranquility

Post by John »

I did some careful listening to the clips via Apple AirPlay through a couple of my systems listening to the first 30 seconds of one clip a few times before switching over to the other and found I preferred the non-Tranquility version better. The Tranquility version seemed to mess with the natural flow of the music and it became more apparent the more times I switched back and forth.

Doing this type of comparison would not be possible at a dealership or home using the same deck!

I'm a big proponent of using needle drops for evaluating before and after changes to an LP12, especially in cases where the change from one to another can take several minutes. I find the recordings result in a much better and easier chance of making a confident conclusion. One can easily make the wrong conclusion when given just one chance to make their conclusion.

I wish LP12 enthusiasts would provide more of these types of comparisons captured from the tape output of their preamps or phono stages. I find them much more enjoyable and better sounding than the ones captured by microphones. Hats off to Andrew for providing them! I was sad to see needledrops banned for monetary reasons from the Pink Fish forum.
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Re: Tiger Paw Tranquility

Post by u252agz »

John wrote:


I'm a big proponent of using needle drops for evaluating before and after changes to an LP12, especially in cases where the change from one to another can take several minutes. I find the recordings result in a much better and easier chance of making a confident conclusion. One can easily make the wrong conclusion when given just one chance to make their conclusion.
I agree. It can be quite difficult at a dealership with a long gap between set ups, especially if both systems are quite good and one is trying to choose the best one.

if the dealership sets up two otherwise identical LP12s - it is easier: but how many dealers have the skills to do that ? They would need to be very very good at both Tune Dem and the black arts of LP12 set up.

Also, in my experience system installations ( amps, interconnects, speaker positioning etc) are generally not optimal at many dealerships ( invariably things sound much better at home) and this can make differences much harder to pick up.

So needle drops are a great way of evaluating systems, either LP12 or Digital front ends.
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Re: Tiger Paw Tranquility

Post by John »

u252agz wrote:
John wrote:


I'm a big proponent of using needle drops for evaluating before and after changes to an LP12, especially in cases where the change from one to another can take several minutes. I find the recordings result in a much better and easier chance of making a confident conclusion. One can easily make the wrong conclusion when given just one chance to make their conclusion.
I agree. It can be quite difficult at a dealership with a long gap between set ups, especially if both systems are quite good and one is trying to choose the best one.

if the dealership sets up two otherwise identical LP12s - it is easier: but how many dealers have the skills to do that ? They would need to be very very good at both Tune Dem and the black arts of LP12 set up.

Also, in my experience system installations ( amps, interconnects, speaker positioning etc) are generally not optimal at many dealerships ( invariably things sound much better at home) and this can make differences much harder to pick up.

So needle drops are a great way of evaluating systems, either LP12 or Digital front ends.
It's a shame folks on this site have no interest in providing quality needle drop comparisons and instead have enthusiasm for poor sounding recordings made from phones and tablets.
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Re: Tiger Paw Tranquility

Post by lejonklou »

John wrote:It's a shame folks on this site have no interest in providing quality needle drop comparisons and instead have enthusiasm for poor sounding recordings made from phones and tablets.
There is a specific reason for our enthusiasm for the "poor sounding recordings": Their sole purpose is a comparison and our main focus is the musical qualities, not the nice sound. And in-room recordings often cut straight to the core of musicality, even when they sound bad.

I really enjoy high quality digital recordings of vinyl playback. But for comparing A with B and decide which is better, I don't find them any easier to judge than an in-room recording. In addition, in-room can be used for many more things, like speaker positioning, amplifier and cable comparisons, racks, room treatment, etc.
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