GS108 Vs GS108T

[Spannko]

Here's another couple of clips for your enjoyment.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/s76a5d0luk9e1 ... T.mov?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ivprcb3n5zdx8 ... 8.mov?dl=0

[beck]

I prefer the last one. It sounds more in tune.

[Charlie1]

+1 for second one.

[lejonklou]

In my ears, the first one is better. More expressive and intimate.

Is it GS108T-200 versus GS108?

And relating to your previous comparison: Are you in this test using a Meicord or Microconnect cable between switch and DS? The length is also of interest.

[Spannko]

Yes, it's a GS108Tv2 (aka GS108T-200XXX, where XXX is replaced by a country code for the PS) Vs a GS108v3.

For this particular comparison, a 3m Meicord was used. If you'd like to hear it, I can set up the same comparison using the MicroConnect.

[Charlie1]

I also hear the first one is more expressive. The opening notes seem a bit more interesting. But that goes in hand with my original impression that the second clip is easier to follow.

[lejonklou]

Yes, it's a GS108Tv2 (aka GS108T-200XXX, where XXX is replaced by a country code for the PS) Vs a GS108v3.

For this particular comparison, a 3m Meicord was used. If you'd like to hear it, I can set up the same comparison using the MicroConnect.

Thanks!

Which one do you think is better, listening in the room?

And then, what are the differences between the original GS108, v2 and v3? Maybe there's even a v4 now...

[lejonklou]

I also hear the first one is more expressive. The opening notes seem a bit more interesting. But that goes in hand with my original impression that the second clip is easier to follow.

I know it's hard to put musical impressions into words, but what you're saying here seems to be "the simpler, the better". I am weary of the "easy to follow" concept, I think "easy to understand" is much better. The music is saying something and that is what we're after. Right?

[u252agz]

In my ears, the first one is better. More expressive and intimate.

I think I agree.

This is a really close one using I phone speakers.

Most difficult comparison with Dropbox clips to date - had to toggle backwards and forwards a few times .

[Charlie1]

I also hear the first one is more expressive. The opening notes seem a bit more interesting. But that goes in hand with my original impression that the second clip is easier to follow.

I know it's hard to put musical impressions into words, but what you're saying here seems to be "the simpler, the better". I am weary of the "easy to follow" concept, I think "easy to understand" is much better. The music is saying something and that is what we're after. Right?

I think you're right that the music is saying more in the first clip. I see what you mean about easier to follow and that it might mean the music is just a bit more simplified. I think I'm learning and getting better but I don't think it's manifesting in the results yet :)

[beck]

Finally, something to disagree about!:-) Listening to the two clips I hear a "normal" guitar in the second clip and a "streched" guitar tone wise in the first clip. No doubt I would choose the second one.

I actually think (based on the clips) that this is the best one until now.

[u252agz]

I have listened with I phone headphones.

I agree with Beck that the guitar in itself sounds normal in the second clip, and therefore better.

However, to me , the 'music'sounds better and more enjoyable in the first clip- so I am sticking with this for now.

Recall the odd disagreement with a choice of power supply for a Netgear network switch- a pattern developing here perhaps.

Perhaps another recording of something more complex would help?

By the way, my experience of going from GS105 to FS108 was that it destroyed the music. A replacement GS 108 immediately restored nirvana back to the system

[lejonklou]

I agree with Beck that the guitar in itself sounds normal in the second clip, and therefore better.

I hear this too. It's as if there's a slight reverb on the first.

I don't care how instruments sound, however. I care whether they're in tune and delivering the message.

The first clip has reverb and maybe even a slight "wobblyness". Second is stiff and straight. All of this is mainly sound to me. The melody, however, is performed with a little more finesse in the first. There's more tension in each pause. The second is like a straight line.

I find this a difficult comparison. And as I've said before, be cautious about drawing conclusions from clips! Sometimes they enlighten and sometimes they play tricks.

[beck]

This is really interesting! In the first clip we have the better flow and tension of the music. In the second clip we have the more normal tone of the guitar where the overtones of the guitar are not pushed as much "out of tune" as in the first clip.
So we have something in both clips that we would like to have in the "perfect setup"!

[ThomasOK]

This is a more difficult one. On initial listen I felt that the second clip was the more tuneful one. Then I read some of the comments and went back and listened to both again. I hear the idea of the first clip being more expressive and the second one having better flow and I don't think that either really puts it all together. I still feel that the guitar is more in tune in the second clip and I find myself getting into it a bit more but there are indeed aspects of the first clip I like. Very interesting.

[Spannko]

When I first plugged in the GS108T (Dec '15), I found it so unmusical it was unbearable to listen to. I plugged it into a power supply and left it for a couple of months, after which time it sounded a lot better, but still not as tunefull as the GS108. It was around this time that I made the first recordings and I think it's fair to say that most people could hear the tunefulness of the 108, but could appreciate that the 108T was doing "something" musical, but didn't quite sound right.

I've had the 108T permanently in use for the last couple of weeks and it appears that it may not have been fully run in. It's improved both in terms of its musicality and sound, to the degree that I'm sure everyone will agree on the superiority of the 108T.

I'll have to leave it a week or so (due to other commitments) and then I'll do a direct 108/108T shootout.

I've also just ordered a Freewoo PS, so lots more fun to come!

[Briain]

Hi

Until recently, I was using a DrayTek 2830 router and a pair of GS-108 switches (using the DrayTek's port based VLAN features to separate the two networks that I require, and using it's tag based VLAN feature to create the trunk to my WAP, so both networks were available to wireless devices; each network had its own SSID). Of course, everything was fed from FRIWO PSUs (principally because the existing power units were all causing radio frequency interference).

The above all worked well, but after creating yet another network, the DrayTek was starting to struggle (not enough CPU horsepower) and there was also another issue with the DrayTek's VLAN capabilities (which I'll not go into, here), so I recently revamped the entire network.

Now, I've replaced my router with a fan-less mini-PC running Sophos UTM (which is very cool) and as it uses the same CPU as Qnap TS-453, there's no lack of CPU grunt (and it actually draws less power than some routers draw, so also not an expensive device to run). I also replaced the GS-108's with a D-Link L2 managed switch (model DGS-1210-24) and everything is now behaving as it should; well, almost.

When listening to the system, it sounded less musical than I'd been used to, so I quickly connected the GS-108 to one of the DGS-1210-24 ports then connected my DS and NAS to the GS-108; it definitely sounded more musical, so that was very interesting. I'll need to do that again some time (borrowing my friend's ears to confirm the findings).

I opened up the DGS-1210-24 to have a peek inside and it has a pretty decent internal SMPS, but it does dump some rubbish back onto the mains supply and the DC side is not too bad, but certainly a little rougher than a FRIWO. The handy thing is that the internal SMPS is not a multi-rail one, but simply a 12V DC supply, so I'll see if I can find the appropriate connector (to suit the DC input on the main switch board) and then fit a DC socket onto the back panel, such that I can try feeding it from an external FRIOW SMPS.

Of course, an interesting thing to ponder is that like all these 12V fed units, it uses an on-board DC to DC converter to derive the other Voltage that the switch requires. These are not things I'd looked at as when I used to tinker with electronics, such devices were not in use. Looking at the one in my Ethernet to fibre converter (I use fibre between the switch and the Sophos UTM 'router') I see it also has a DC-DC converter, so I looked it up and found the spec sheets for it. Interestingly, there are various suggested circuit designs (it can be used to step up as well as step down) and when you look at them, most show an optional choke and capacitor output filter. Of course, in cost engineered products (so virtually all products) these are not fitted. Of course, there's typically a voltage regulator after that DC-DC converter, so perhaps that doesn't pass any trash onto the rest of the circuit (I've yet to look into all that stuff and then try measuring what's actually going on).

So, when you use a FRIWO to feed a switch (or some folks even use a linear supply) you might well be cutting down on the noise fed back into the mains (and I suspect that in some cases - particularly where the switch is located electrically close to the Hi-Fi system - that's maybe why it sounds better) and cut down on the noise fed to parts of the switches circuitry, there is also this noise generating DC-DC converter stage to ponder.

I've only just started to look into all this, but I'll open up a GS-108 to bits in a few days (one is out on loan and the other is in use elsewhere in my network, so I can't do that right away) and see what's in there, then see if I can see a spec sheet for it (to see if they've filtered its output side, though I'd be surprised if they have). I'll also take the cover off my DGS-1210-24 and see which version of DC-DC converter they have used (and again look for a spec sheet) and also take note (in both cases) of whether there's a regulator following that DC-DC converter stage.

All that aside, it will be interesting to see whether just adding a FRIWO makes any difference to my DGS-1210-24 (without changing anything else) and when I eventually get round to doing that, I'll report back with my findings.

Bri

NB For anyone interested, the spec sheet for the DC-DC converter that's used in my TP-Link fibre to Ethernet media adapter can be viewed at the following link: https://www.sparkfun.com/datasheets/IC/MC34063A.pdf and on page 7 (the first step down variant) you can see the optional L+C output filter (that they have opted not to fit in that particular unit). It will be interesting to see which devices are used in the GS-108 and the DGS-1210-24 (and measure what - in the way of unwanted trash - is coming out from them).

[Music Lover]

Hi Brian!
Did you found time to continue looking into this?
If so, any findings?