Optimal House Wiring

[anthony]

Thaanks Charlie are you refering to the Porsche Boxter that looks the same both ways! In fact I did not know whether I was coming or going?

And wowsers have you many interesting friends as a result? BoB, Hannah, Anna and Eve send their regards.

[Charlie1]

Only my Mum and Dad talk to me.
...can we stop now :)

You're right about the Boxter though. It's just wrong.

[ThomasOK]

Only my Mum and Dad talk to me.
...can we stop now :)

You're right about the Boxter though. It's just wrong.

Otto, Nan and their tot say Hi too. Now back to listening to some NIN!

[Charlie1]

An old thread.

We're having some work done to the house and I took the opportunity to get a 2.5mm and 4mm spur installed besides the Hi-Fi. They're not finished yet but I'm keen to learn if either is better than my normal mains outlet. We've not got 3-phase so couldn't get each spur on a different phase. The sparky is using our existing distribution board. He said he cannot daisy chain two boards and must instead split the feeds between them, so I figured I'd just use spare capacity in the existing distribution board. Let you guys know how it goes.

[Spannko]

Charlie1,

You can have a separate dedicated fuse box fitted next to your existing fuse box. You will need to ask your electricity company to wire into a junction box immediately after your meter. The two fuse boxes are then wired into the junction box. Your electrician isn't allowed to fit the junction but the electricity companies don't usually charge for this.

Have you considered fitting a 6mm cable too? Theoretically, a 6mm cable could be better (lower voltage drop under load), but as we know theory doesn't always relate to tune playing ability.

[kampak]

Hi there
I´ve read an interesting article in german mag `Fidelity` some time ago, wherein Hans Strassner from HMS made the suggestion for a cheap, but physically good mains installation.
Take 3 stock 1,5mm cables loose woven as a pigtail and connect both ends (colour to colour!) for not only a 4,5mm, but much more surface and reduced induction (at least thats what I recall right now).
I plan to give that a try, but not in the near future.
KR, Karsten

[Charlie1]

@Spannko
Thanks for the info. I just figured that cos the feed was being split then it might not offer much of an improvement. Whereas, if it went to the Hi-Fi fuse box first then that would be different. I suppose I can proceed as planned and then get him back another time to fit a splitter. That way I'll know which is better. I thought 4mm was pretty extreme. But it's too late now - all plastered in :)

@kampak
Thanks for the suggestion. Not sure it is valid or not for the UK but interested to know how you get on.

[Panobo]

Charlie, I hope you get the opportunity to split the hifi and main fuse boards, I have done this at my last house and this one.
A dedicated earth, cable and spike made a worthwhile difference for me.
The improvement I experienced at my last house inspired me to push the installation at my new house - it uses a dedicated consumer unit, with an MCB feeding a cable that feeds a double plug... I have 5 MCBs feeding 5 cables to 5 double sockets. 3 of these are sheilded 6mm cable feeding high quality unswitched wall sockets- these sound good. The other 2 are run in Furutech cable and wall sockets, which is quite a financial commitment, but the difference is absolutely staggering.
My advise to anyone who wants it is to invest in the quality of your mains.
Best of luck

[Spannko]

@charlie1

Fitting a dedicated fuse box later won't be a problem, and doing it later will let you (and us!) know if it's worthwhile.

I look forward to hearing how you get on.

[Charlie1]

@panobo
I'll get the sparky to implement your (and spannko's) suggestions in a couple of months, although it won't be with 6mm cable (just 2.5 and 4mm). Thanks for the Furutech info but I need to keep the costs down. Would have been nice to compare though.

@spannko
Will do. I knew there was a benefit to getting a new kitchen, other than pleasing my wife.

[Spannko]

I like your logic! lol

[Donald]

I completed a mains circuit upgrade early last year (2014) and installed a new ring main with 5 switched double sockets for equipment such as PC, printer, TV, network switch and router etc. This is standard Prysmian 2.5mm twin and earth.

For the hi-fi (in a different room) I've installed two radial circuits each feeding two un-switched double sockets - one radial is for power amps while the other is for the turntable, CD player and DSM. For the radials I used 6mm screened twin and earth from MCRU: -

http://www.mains-cables-r-us.co.uk/cabl ... metre.html

And I used these sockets: -

http://www.mains-cables-r-us.co.uk/main ... ocket.html

Back at the consumer unit there are two new RCD boxes - one for the ring main and one for the radials. I also got my electrician to install a new earth connection while the screen on the 6mm mains cable is only terminated at the consumer unit end.

I know it's all all totally over-engineered and over-specified but "do it once and do it right" !

[Charlie1]

Thanks Donald.

[Spannko]

Any news about your new wiring yet Charlie1?

[Charlie1]

Any news about your new wiring yet Charlie1?

Hi Spannko. The new sockets are ready but the builders are still busy and the house is a dust bowl. At least we're not washing up the dishes in the bath tub any more. They've not even started decorating yet, so maybe 3-4 weeks before it's all done. I'll let you know how it works out.

[Spannko]

Thanks Charlie1. Sad I know, but I'm really looking forward to seeing how you get on. I shall be starting a renovation project of my own soon, so I'm hoping that you can give me some pointers :)

[Ozzzy189]

Hi guys. I put a dedicated spur(?) in for my hi-fi when I re-decorated after moving house, although I had a very different room, the improvements were very worthwhile. Bass was very tight and tuneful and sounded more powerful with a real impact, everything else just sounded much more detailed with a clarity that was slightly lacking previously.

[Charlie1]

Sad I know, but I'm really looking forward to seeing how you get on. I shall be starting a renovation project of my own soon, so I'm hoping that you can give me some pointers :)

The system has been up and running a few days now. I'm really pleased and pleasantly surprised by the improvement provided by the spur. It's a musical step up large enough to motivate me to rummage through my collection for old favourites. Hard to quantify but I estimate it's comparable to a Dynamik PSU upgrade, but probably not the Radikal Dynamik which I recall being musically quite significant.

The main sonic benefit I'm noticing is a much smoother and less grainy midrange that makes me want to turn up the volume more. It's similar to the Ekos 2 to Ekos SE upgrade in this respect, although musically less significant. Makes me wonder if my struggles with the slightly rough sounding Ninka tweeter wouldn't be an issue now. Anyway, top end also has more finesse. Bottom end seems largely unchanged, maybe a bit more punch.

I haven't compared the 2.5mm (16 amp) spur to the 4mm (32 amp) spur. Too busy enjoying my music again, but I will do. I briefly compared my original outlet (now fitted with the same type socket as the new ones) to the 32 amp spur that I'm using at the moment. The old socket doesn't sound any different to how I remember my system sounding - funny how you can know this without hearing it for a few months but I guess we're all so accustomed to our own set-up.

Based upon this success, I'd certainly like to pursue the additional steps that Donald mentioned above but I'll leave it for a few months and sit back and enjoy this improvement.

[Spannko]

Great stuff, charlie1. For the money, it's got to be about the best upgrade out there.

I'm no expert on these matters, but I think that a 2.5mm ring has a lower impedance than a 4mm spur, which means that voltage drops under load should be lower. And yet, you're hearing an improvement. I think that this is a really interesting finding which deserves further investigation. What is causing the improvement? A spur rather than a ring? Is the cables CSA critical? (I say this because when Linn developed their K20 cable, they found 4mm sq to be the most musical, and the latest K200 is still 4mm sq). Something else?

It'll be interesting to see what happens when you try the 2.5mm cable.

[Charlie1]

No idea about the science of it Spannko. We do have BT Ethernet-over-Mains units on the main household ring though. I've heard mention on the Linn forum that these are particularly bad for HiFi so it's possible others won't notice such an improvement when moving to a dedicated spur.

[Charlie1]

I compared the three sockets this morning using Ethan Johns 'The Reckoning' LP. The original ring main is just rubbish compared to either spur. It's musically garbled by comparison with acoustic guitar notes all a jumble (this is all spotlighted by tune dem of course - in the grand scheme of things my wife would probably struggle to notice much difference.)

The 2.5mm 16amp and 4mm 32amp offer quite different presentations. They remind of the difference between a Steely Dan 80s re-issue and a first pressing. Both are fundamentally tuneful and enjoyable but the 4mm spur is much more alive, vibrant and three dimensional and seems to have greater dynamic range. The 2.5mm seems a bit flat and polite with a similar sound signature to my original ring main (no surprise). The only issue is that I have a bad feeling the 2.5mm is actually more tuneful which is really f####ng annoying.

I'm going to live with the more vibrant 4mm for a while and then go back to the 2.5mm in a few weeks. Or I might just pretend the 2.5mm spur doesn't exist.

[Spannko]

Really interesting, Charlie1.

I’m currently using either a 6mm or 10mm T&E (cant remember which), but I haven't been convinced enough by its performance to make a blanket recommendation - I need to conduct better comparisons first.

I can relate to the musicality Vs sound thing, I’ve compared twin 4mm radials (one for power amps, one for everything else) to a single 4mm radial and heard something very similar to yourself. The twin radials produced the sort of sound us crazy audiophiles strive for. The bass was tight, clear and deep. The mids and higher frequencies were transparent and spacious. Only one thing prevented it from being perfect - yes, you guessed it - the damn musicality!!! This TuneDem malarky can't ‘arf make life difficult sometimes! Using one 4mm radial was no where near as impressive, but the musicality was way better - at least the softened and slightly diffuse bass was now musically related to the rest of the frequency range.

I changed the 4mm radial to the 6/10mm radial, but I honestly can't remember what effect it had. I think I changed several things at the same time which has left me not knowing which solution sounds best.

Over the next couple of months I’m going to do a series of better controlled tests which will hopefully result in finding a solution which musically out performs the others. I’m going to try 2.5, 4.0, 6.0 and 10mm T&E, each with their matching MCB or cartridge fuse. I’m also going to try 2.5, 4.0 and 6.0 mm flex because I’m wondering what effect the twist applied to the conductors will have on the musicality.

[lejonklou]

Using one 4mm radial was no where near as impressive, but the musicality was way better - at least the softened and slightly diffuse bass was now musically related to the rest of the frequency range.

This has been my impression as well.

There are similarities with other types of wiring:
Single wiring speakers is less impressive but more musical.
Single amping is less impressive but more musical.
Daisy chaining line level signals is less impressive but more musical than parallel connection.
Daisy chaining power strips is usually less impressive but more musical than running them parallel.
Unbalanced (one conductor) is usually less impressive but more musical than balanced (two conductors).
And in electronics there are many instances where it's less impressive but more musical to keep the entire signal, ground or power together in one stream instead of splitting it up in several.

[Charlie1]

Blimey, 10mm2! That must be pricey.

I’m also going to try 2.5, 4.0 and 6.0 mm flex because I’m wondering what effect the twist applied to the conductors will have on the musicality.

I was wondering if the cable on my extension lead should ideally match the cabling on the spur.

[Spannko]

Blimey, 10mm2! That must be pricey.

I’m also going to try 2.5, 4.0 and 6.0 mm flex because I’m wondering what effect the twist applied to the conductors will have on the musicality.

I was wondering if the cable on my extension lead should ideally match the cabling on the spur.

I was thinking the opposite, ie matching the spur to the power leads ie a 1.5mmn spur to the cables! I thought about posting it earlier but I thought people would have thought that I'd really lost the plot!!!