The sound of LP12 plinths?

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The sound of LP12 plinths?

Post by ThomasOK »

I thought it was time to put some attention back on the analog side of things. So I thought I'd throw LP12 plinth sound out as a topic for discussion.

To be honest I haven't really paid much attention to the sound of the plinth in the past if for no other reason than it is difficult to change the plinth and it is also difficult to compare them. Also, since it is generally said that the Black Ash plinth sounded best and that was the one I owned I didn't really worry about it. However, since I have been refining the use of a precision torque screwdriver in setting up the LP12 for about two years now and have also reached a higher level of precision on the suspension due to the additional precision required by the Keel, I am now pretty confident that I can minimize any differences in setup and their sonic consequences. Therefore I am now more confident that I am actually comparing differences in different materials.

This coincided with my interest in looking at alternate plinths for cosmetic reasons after seeing ads for a number of custom plinths on eBay and Audiogon. After looking at some plinths in various woods including Cocobolo, Bubinga, Wenge and others and seeing one plinth maker that had received a recommendation from one of the better Linn dealers I know, I decided to contact the plinth maker about his products. I had a great conversation with Chris Harban about his plinths and found that he was very interested in making plinths with the best sound and making them to at least as high a level of craftsmanship and precision as Linn plinths. He was quite interested in some feedback I gave him and in the importance of proper torque in the setup and he was almost apologetic for selling the Cocobolo plinths because he knows that is not the best sounding wood - but that is what people ask for the most as it is a very highly figured and colorful wood.

Chris told me that the other Linn dealer was quite impressed with his plinths (which I confirmed by a direct conversation with him) and had put a Wenge plinth on his demo LP12 as he felt it sounded noticeably better than the Black Ash - his previous favorite. The dealer had also put a Makore plinth on a customer's LP12 which he also liked better than the Black Ash. Chris also said he was working on a Movingui plinth that he felt would likely be his best sounding one yet. After talking to Chris a couple of times we decided to put a couple of his plinths on display here for sale and see how much interest there was in them. We are still waiting for them as he has had a run on his plinths recently and needs to get some more finished before he can send them to us.

What I did not know was that Chris was making a custom plinth for me with some ideas based on our discussions. It is a Movingui plinth but features special blocks of wood where the top plate bolts on. Instead of the usual materials he used 30 year air-dried Ebony which he treated with the same multi-coat oil finish he uses on the rest of the plinth. This was done with the idea of minimizing any fluctuation in the tightness of the two bolts due to changes in temperatures and humidity. He also made the internal strips the top plate sits on out of Wenge since it has proven to be a stable and good sounding wood.

Chris sent me this Movingui plinth almost two weeks ago and I was able to install it on my LP12 late last week. I have to say the results surprised me and all who heard it - it is a truly wonderful sounding plinth - and it is absolutely gorgeous! To make sure I could isolate the sound of the plinth as much as possible I brought my LP12 into the store and compared it to our demo LP12 with both on Quadraspire Acrylic shelves. Both LP12s are full SE setups with the Keel, Ekos SE, Trampolin2 and Akiva cartridges. Both were setup by me and both were plugged into the same Linto and Lingo2 to rule out any differences from the electronics. The rest of the system was Klimax Kontrol, Klimax Chakra Twin and Sonus Faber Amati Anniversarios that I had just finished tweaking the positions of. My LP12 had a Black Ash plinth and the store demo had Cherry. When we did the comparison I felt that the Black Ash was a little bit better. It was more tuneful with a better flow but the difference was small enough that most people would likely feel that they would rather go with the look they preferred than worry about the sonic differences. The others who listened felt the same way. Then I installed the Movingui plinth on my LP12 and did the comparison Vs. the demo Cherry again. Wow! This time is was a whole different story. When listening to the LP12 with the Movingui plinth things were much more tuneful, there was a texture to the playing of the bass on the Peter Gabriel record we used that was mostly obscured on the Cherry. It was a fair bit easier to hear the inflections on the vocals and at the same time they sounded less strident and irritating than they did on the Cherry. I really hadn't expected the kind of differences I was hearing nor did the others listening. My Fiancee, Debbie, came in the store when I was doing the A/B for a good customer and after about 20 seconds on the Movigui said "Holy S**t, that is ours isn't it? It sounds really good." One of the other salesmen listening a little later remarked on noticing the same improvements in the bass and vocals that I heard. And another newer salesman was ticked off at me for doing the demo as he was thinking about getting a Rega P3 but after hearing how much better the plinth made the LP12 sound he decided he has to save up and get a Majik LP12 and then upgrade it over time.

Because of this experience I wanted to see what other people had experienced in regard to the sound of plinths. Has anyone else tried different plinths? If so what did you hear?

Before I end I also want to mention that the Movingui plinth was quite well made and very exact. All the holes that Linn drills were there and in exactly the right places and the top plate and Trampolin 2 fit at least as precisely as they do on a Linn plinth. The plinth is about 3/16" higher than a Linn plinth so I asked Chris about it. He said he had done it so there would be more space for those with stiffer arm cables and also that it showed off the grain a bit better. My guess is it is also wastes less wood which a woodworker would hate to waste when it is such fine wood. After talking to me he conceded that customers would probably like it better if it was the same height they were used to so he will likely go to the same height as Linn in the near future. When I first lifted up the plinth I thought it might be a bit heavy but after taking off the Black Ash plinth I weighed them and they were exactly the same. I have to say that I am very pleased with this plinth. It is wonderful sounding and is stunningly beautiful.
Last edited by ThomasOK on 2008-04-12 15:55, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by lejonklou »

Thanks for this report, Thomas! To me this feels like going back about 20 years in time, but this time doing the plinth comparisons with a precision we never could back then. By the way, we also did conclude that the black ash plinth was probably the best sounding one - this was from comparisons made in the early 90's.

Indeed the torque screwdriver that I regularly use - a track which you set me on a few years ago - really makes an enormous difference to the sound of both LP12's and speakers (tightening drive units). And since performance is now so much easier to optimise, it becomes possible to evaluate difficult things like different plinth materials.

I would really like to hear the new plinths you are mentioning! Are they possible to order? How much are they? Could you post a picture of how they look?

I beleive we still have much more information to retrieve from the vinyl records. My experiments with motor controllers have shown that the Lingo is far from perfect and can be signficantly improved. And there seems to be several possible mechanical improvements as well. Keep up the good work and I will promise to do the same! :D

EDIT: Just saw a picture in your system topic. Gosh! What do the other woods look like? Is there any with more smooth and less dramatic wood character...?
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Post by ThomasOK »

Glad to see your interest and comments, Fredrik. I felt that the Lejonklou forum would be the best place to post this information as the members have a tendency to want to get the best music out of their systems and we are generally aware that there are times that dedicated people, like yourself and Chris, can make improvements over the stock Linn products.

In the case of plinths, Linn, as a manufacturer of reasonable size, really isn't in a position to offer plinths in a number of exotic woods. They need to make plinths that sound good and are consistent but they also need to be able to make them in decent quantities and have a steady supply. Linn just are not in the position to run down to the local lumber shop, see some nice boards of Movingui or Cocobolo and make up three or four plinths. Chris, on the other hand, does just that. When he goes to the lumber shops he looks to see what wood they have that is attractive, straight and in the right sizes and he picks up whatever is good and makes plinths out of them. As I said in my post, his workmanship is of the highest quality.

I didn't post contact and pricing information before as I didn't want to sound like an advertisement and I know some forums are sensitive about what they view as "commercial" posts. But since you have asked for more info I will put that here.

The plinths I am referring to are made by Chris Harban in Iowa, USA. Chris is glad to hear from anyone with interest in LP12 plinths or even for custom plinths for other turntables. His email address is c_harban@hotmail.com and he usually runs ads on eBay and Audiogon under the user name ilikmangos. He is very personable and is quite interested in feedback on his work. Currently he is selling his plinths mostly for $450US plus shipping to introduce people to his work. This is about the same price Linn charges for a replacement plinth so his are a no-brainer for anyone replacing an old, damaged or warped plinth considering the beautiful woods and quality craftsmanship. The prices are likely to go up sometime in the future as he is more established and once he starts to sell more through dealers who currently make no profit on his plinths (those, like us, who are interested in doing it provide it as a service to their customers and make some money off the labor for installation).

Now that I've got the photo posting figured out I will put photos of several of his plinths below. I am just posting one photo each to give an idea of the woods he uses, he generally has at least six photos from different angles in each of his listings. To specifically answer your wood question, Fredrik, he does make plinths out of woods with simpler grain structures. I believe that Chris will make a plinth out of any wood that he feels is suitable and attractive and the photos show a range of different woods from the more subtle like Afromosia, Mahogony and Wenge to the more colorful and highly figured like Cocobolo, Movingui and Santos Rosewood. In addition to those woods I know he has made plinths out of Makore, Bubinga, White Oak, Ash and I believe he is even making one out of Ebony. He is also looking at making some in a Piano Black Lacquer finish and possibly some stains as well. I don't have photos of all these but do have a number of them as well as a photo showing a large number of different plinths he has been working on in his workshop. After someone on another forum mentioned a preference for the older style fluted plinths he did some experimenting and can also supply fluted plinths if someone wants them. If you are looking for something made to spec be aware that it may take a month or two as Chris is very picky about how the plinths are made and will not rush the glueing or finishing process. Making one of these plinths takes some time so the only way to get one quickly is to get one that is finished or nearly so. On to the photos:

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The order is my Movingui LP12, Cocobolo, Bubinga, Santos Rosewood, Mahogony, Afromosia and Wenge and then the workshop photo. As to the sound of the different woods I have no personal experience with most of these. According to the other Linn dealer the Wenge is definitely better than the Linn Black Ash and the Makore is better than that. Chris feels that the Movingui is probably the best of all of them and I can attest that it is quite good and a fair bit better than the Black Ash. Chris has been told by the other dealer that the Cocobolo is not as good sounding as a Black Ash and being similar the Santos Rosewood is not likely to be either. I also got the feel from Chris that the Bubinga was one he thought I would be less interested in due to the sonics. I believe Bubinga is in the Rosewood family so this seems likely. In general it seems that the woods that combine good stiffness with lightness like Movingui and Balck Ash sound the best whereas the heavier woods like the Rosewoods and Ebony tend to be less good. I hope this is helpful. I'm sure Chris would be glad to answer any more specific questions about woods and availability and I'll answer any questions I can as well.
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Post by ThomasOK »

Another, shorter note. I agree that there is still more information on the records that we are not yet getting off. The Keel, Trampolin2 and Ekos SE all showed how much more music there was than we all thought possible. The Movingui plinth showed me that there was yet more. And as I know that both you and Linn are working on higher-performance motor drive systems I'm sure we will get yet another boost in the not-to-distant future.

Having now setup about a dozen Keels I also have to wonder how long it will be before we see an improved top plate. It seems to me that something with more precision, possibly made out of somewhat thicker aluminum with tapered edges might be just the ticket. I am all for anything that gets more music off my records!
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Post by paolo »

Thomas thank you for your very interesting report, great post!

I've never had the possibility to compare different plinths in a controlled manner, but I'm always been courious about their relative influence on the performance of the LP12.

There had been roumours in the near past that Linn was working on an aluminium version of the plinth, which also confirms this is a crucial part where there's still room for considerable improvements.

Maybe machined aluminium is not a cost effective way to proceed (and infact it seems Linn has given up with its introduction), while the use of wood with still more specialized manifacturing and choice of essences could be a very interesting and successful way to go - and infact it is as you are reporting!

Thank you again and keep up with your precious work!

Paolo
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Post by Charlie1 »

Hi Thomas - great stuff. I will definitely consider the Movingui prior to my next service in a year or so. I want to get the top plate fixing anyway because I can hear motor hum when the amp is turned right up and needle is held over the record (especially 45rpm), and I understand the top plate requires a complete rebuild anyway. It does look a bit odd compared to my maple version which nicely matches my Ninka's, but what the hell, as long as it sounds good. I also like the idea because it's not a mega-bucks upgrade as the SE upgrades have left their mark on my bank balance!

PS I hope your wish comes true and Linn do make an improved top plate and get it out before my service!
PPS Haven't forgotten about the torque screwdriver either - just haven't had time (In fact I probably won't have time for the next 18 years as we've just had our first child :shock: :D ). I also want the Linto to settle in first, but I do appreciate the information you posted me on that.
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Post by Azazello »

Charlie1 wrote:we've just had our first child :shock: :D
Congratulations :!: :D
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Post by ThomasOK »

Charlie1 wrote:PPS Haven't forgotten about the torque screwdriver either - just haven't had time (In fact I probably won't have time for the next 18 years as we've just had our first child :shock: :D ). I also want the Linto to settle in first, but I do appreciate the information you posted me on that.
My congratulations as well. I imagine that you will find some time here and there in the next 18 years, once you get used to things. But I expect you may be dealing with a sleep deficit in the near future. :wink: Good luck and give my best wishes to mother and child.
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Post by ThomasOK »

paolo wrote:There had been roumours in the near past that Linn was working on an aluminium version of the plinth, which also confirms this is a crucial part where there's still room for considerable improvements.

Maybe machined aluminium is not a cost effective way to proceed (and infact it seems Linn has given up with its introduction)...
Indeed, we were told that Linn had planned a "machined from solid" aluminum plinth as part of the LP12 SE upgrades. (We Americans have our own spelling for that word - actually I prefer the British way.) We were told that it was tried but that the musical improvement was not worth the considerable cost - which would likely have made the Keel seem a good deal! Rumor has it that the prototype is performing well in Ivor's house. :)
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Post by ThomasOK »

One correction to my notes on the plinths above. Chris informs me that Bubinga is not in the Rosewood family although it is true that Cocobolo is. He has reported that one of his customers in Hong Kong bought a Bubinga and liked the sound enough that he ordered a second one so it may be better than I thought. Tama uses Bubinga in some of their top drums and reports that it is significantly harder than Maple or Birch so it does seem like it may be a good sounding material. Chris feels sonically it should be at least within the range of a Maple plinth.
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Post by lejonklou »

What do you mean by "at least within the range of a Maple plinth"?

You mentioned Linn's black plinth sounding a little bit better than cherry. Have you ever compared with the maple plinth?
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Post by ThomasOK »

That phrase came from Chris. I have never compared the Maple plinth and I don't remember the ranking order one of our Linn reps gave us a couple of years back. I had been hoping more people would comment on their findings on which woods they prefer. I have been trying to find out hardness and weights of woods to see if there is any correlation with which sound best but it is hard to find a comprehensive source of good information. I'm sure everyone, including Chris, would love to have some reliable chart as to which woods sound the best.

I received an email from Chris earlier today where he gave me an update on the plinth situation. He is currently almost out of the exotic wood plinths but will soon be buying enough wood for about 100 to 150 plinths. He is going to try to source some more Movingui but his normal supplier doesn't stock it and it is a rare wood so he is not sure. He is currently glueing up some Cherry with nice figuring and some Walnut but the other woods will take a few weeks.

If I get any more information on the ranking of the plinths I will post it. I should be getting a call from Chris next week and will get his feedback then.
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Post by Chris H »

Hello to all... It is me that has been making these plinths, with intent of bringing the most beautiful woods I can find into the audio world, as well as studying the effects of the various elements involved in bringing out the highest quality of sound from a sound system, and especially with regards to the plinth. I love working with wood, and also love playing records. Combining the two has given my creative flow, room to roam...

By 'the range of Maple plinths', what I mean is, every board has a slightly different density, grain pattern, 'signature' if you will. This is due to the environment the tree was grown in, and many other variables, consistent with the nature of the changing Universe. This is common knowledge among woodworkers, and definitely among skilled luthiers. With piles of plinths on my workbench, as many as 40+ at one time, I picked quite a few up and tapped them, to listen to their tone. Even within one species, the tones differ. Some species vary more than others. With the wide range of results I have heard between different materials, and arrangements within components of the system, from feedback I have heard, and from conversations with people, I suspect that the plinth has potential to greatly effect the overall sound.

I am not sure how much harder Bubinga is than Maple, I will have to go give them both the fingernail test. (also which species of Maple is very important, as some are quite soft, though I believe the factory Linn Maple plinths are made from Hard Maple)

Cocobolo has the widest range of tones I have noticed yet, different boards can sound very different, yet they are all Cocobolo...

I have a few ideas for experimentation on how to build a better sounding plinth which I will share in the very near future.
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Post by Azazello »

Welcome to the forum Chris! :D
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Post by ThomasOK »

I promised to post an update on the ranking of the custom LP12 plinths Chris was sending me a while back. With any number of interruptions slowing things down (delays in plinth availability, the Holidays, the garage across the street burning to the ground in a half hour with a number of explosions a week before Christmas, the water main in our front yard breaking 3 days later, etc.!) it has taken me a while to complete the tests and get the information together.

I’ll relieve the suspense and start out with the musical quality order of the plinths IMHO:

Movingui
Wenge
Mayan Rosewood
Black Limba

I find that all of these plinths sound better than a Linn Black Ash, Cherry or Afromosia plinth (the only ones I have compared so far). I did recently replace a later Linn Rosewood that sounded quite good with a Movingui that both the owner and I found to be noticeably better, and he definitely felt it was worth the $650 plus installation price. That being said I did feel his Rosewood plinth sounded quite good and would likely rank somewhere around the Mayan Rosewwod from Chris. This is interesting because the Linn Rosewood has been said to be one of the less good sounding stock plinths but this one certainly gives the lie to that assumption.

Anyway, here is what I have found so far.

Movingui: A very musical plinth, excellent bass depth and texture, vocal and instrumental inflections and top to bottom balance substantially better than any of the stock Linn plinths I have tried so far except the Rosewood and still clearly enough better than the Rosewood to be a worthwhile upgrade. Also more musical and balanced than any of the other custom plinths I have tried.

Wenge: Next best after the Movingui. It is a little less easy to follow the tune on the Wenge than on the Movingui and the highs seem a bit muted. Some with a bright system might find this politeness or reticence in the highs welcome but I found it made the music a bit constricted and the nuances of vocals, trumpets and cymbals were slightly obscured. Reportedly the head of Naim USA owns a Wenge plinth and really loves it.

Mayan Rosewood: This one gave me a bit of a hard time at first doing my comparisons in the store. It seemed initially to be making it easier to hear the way some instruments were being played or certain vocal inflections but in other ways music seemed to be harder to follow. I had several others, including Debbie, listen to the Mayan Rosewood plinth and the reactions were mixed with different people preferring one or the other (compared to the Movingui). In order to further evaluate it I took this one home and compared it to my Movingui there. It was quite obvious that the Mayan Rosewood, while it did some interesting things, was not as musical or as tuneful as the Movingui and that it would be fatiguing over time. It seems as though the Mayan Rosewood pushes the upper-midrange forward somewhat giving the initial impression of more detail. This is a common effect in many “high-end” audio components and cables that sound very “Hi-Fi” but not very musical. It certainly wasn’t there to the same degree as these items and heard in isolation is still a good sounding plinth, again preferable to stock Linn Black Ash, Cherry and Arfomosia. But this touch of forwardness is the most obvious characteristic, although again one that some preferred – at least in the store system.

Black Limba: While my least favorite of the custom plinths I have heard it is still more tuneful than the Linn Black Ash, Cherry and Arfomosia plinths. Music is easier to follow and it is easier to hear what the musicians are doing and how well they play together. The Black Limba overall gives a lighter presentation than any of the other plinths. It does not have as much power or extension in the bass as any of the other plinths and it seemed to show up surface noise a bit more than the other custom plinths.

Since I started investigating this whole subject of plinth sound I have been hoping to find some characteristic that would allow you to know which wood would give the best sound. So far I have found physical characteristics to be no help in this, at least from my limited knowledge of them. Neither the hardness of the wood nor the weight of it are good predictors of sonic quality. Nor does density seem to be the important factor. And no, the lighter colored woods do not have a lighter tome compared to something like Black Ash.:)

Chris felt that the “tap tone” or the sound it makes when you hold up the plinth by one side and tap it would give the best clue as to the performance and he might be right. But if so more investigation will be needed. He thought that the Mayan Rosewood might be the best, or one of the best, as it has a nice, melodic tone while you tap it. But it turned out to be a bit below the top plinths. While it does have a melodic tone it also has the longest ring of any of the plinths and I think this might contribute to the somewhat forward sound. The Movingui also has a light, melodic tone with a good spread of frequencies but much less of a ring than the Mayan Rosewood. Wenge is melodic but with fewer overtones and the Black Limba has a high, bright tone with little body and a damped ring. By comparison the stock Cherry has a short’ high tone quickly damped and without much spread and Black Ash is a bit more melodic with more spread and a bit more ring than the Cherry. So there is some similarity between the tone they make when tapped and their actual sonic presentation but it is not something I think I could count on to pick out what will be the most musical plinth.

The comparisons were mostly made in the store using my LP12 SE with Movingui plinth compared to the store demo LP12 SE with various plinths. The store demo has a 1.7 meter T.Kable with old style Silver RCAs and my table has a 1.1 meter version of the same. Otherwise the two tables are as identical as they can be made with precision torque settings on all fasteners. A comparison of both tables with Movingui plinths revealed only the slightest difference in clarity of brush strokes on a drum head – the kind of slight difference that would be expected from any two different units of the same piece of equipment - for instance, two different Akivas. Both LP12s were placed on the top shelf of a Quadrispire Sunoko Vent double wide rack and played through Linto, Klimax Kontrol and Klimax Twin Chakra electronics into Sonus Faber Amati Anniversarios properly torqued and running through Nordost Odin cables. As noted above I also compared the Mayan Rosewood to my Movingui at home on my own system.

I have discussed my findings with Chris Harban who was somewhat surprised the Mayan Rosewood didn’t win. In light of my findings he will be checking his wood suppliers for more Movingui wood of high enough quality for plinths. He has promised to keep me posted as to when these become available. He will likely send me some other plinths when he has them ready – possibly Bubinga or Cocobolo. I will update my findings as I have the opportunity to evaluate more units. I have the Black Limba, Mayan Rosewood and Wenge plinths available for sale if anyone is interested.
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Post by Charlie1 »

Thanks for all your hard work Thomas and being so thorough. I will be emailing Chris to reserve a Movingui plinth next time he can source some of the wood.
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Post by lejonklou »

Bloody fantastic work, Thomas!

Now I want a Movingui plinth more than ever.

Chris, do you have, like, a waiting list for these jewels? :D :wink:
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Post by Charlie1 »

I was recently told that Linn changed their plinth manufacturer about a year ago and they are now better built quality. I wonder has anyone had a chance to compare the sound? I believe the new ones have a small metal corner bracket as well.
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Post by lejonklou »

I have one of the new plinths here, a black one. It does have a tiny metal bracket in each corner, but I discussed this with Thomas who took the question to Chris. We all believe that these metal pieces are there to make the assembly easier, as they are not likely to increase the stiffness of the plinth.

I haven't compared it with any other plinth.

I still want a Movingui made by Chris... :!:
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Post by ThomasOK »

I have not had any experience yet with the new plinths. When we get our hands on one I will try to compare it with another one or two to see how it does.

I just talked to Chris last week and he is currently pretty much out of plinths. He was planning to make a trip to his lumber suppliers this week and will be hoping to get more Movingui. I have told him that I could really use some as I currently have at least three customers interested in them, one with a solid order, and I mentioned Charlie1 and Fredrik are interested too. He is currently working on about three plinths but they will sell for at least $800 as the woods are even more exotic and difficult to work with. Two of them are different types of Ebony. Since these take longer to build properly he doesn't expect he will have much of anything in the way of new LP12 plinths to sell until sometime this summer whether these or the additional ones he will be building.

I got the impression that he is going to concentrate on building plinths for a while to try and build up stock so he can have a more steady flow in the future.

It just occurred to me that the Radikal/Urika should make it a fair bit easier to compare plinths in the future. I have the installation instructions and there is no longer an internal circuit board on the central strap nor do you have a P-clip to deal with any more. So the metal strap now only holds the top plate down and braces the plinth - the grounding wires are the only things that are attached to it. This should make it much easier to swap out a plinth without concern for changes in setup.

Of course it means I will need to have access to two LP12s with Radikal/Urika upgrades but I expect it shouldn't be too hard to convince Keith we need a set on demo.
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Post by TT1968 »

Hellow Thomas
Do you have any more the plinths which you offered fo sale?
If so what would be the price?
regards
Andrzej
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ThomasOK
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Post by ThomasOK »

At this time I have plinths in Wenge, Mayan Rosewood and Black Limba. These are selling for $650US plus shipping. If you (or anyone) is interested you can PM me for information about ordering one.

I talked to Chris a little over a week ago and it looks like he won't have any more plinths completed until some time this summer so these are it for now.
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lejonklou
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Post by lejonklou »

I have read through this thread with your thorough plinth reports several times now, Thomas.

My first thought is that I really want one of Chris' plinths. Too bad I don't really like the look of Wenge, otherwise it could have been interesting. But I'm not in a hurry, I'll patiently wait until my day (plinth) comes.

The second thought is about the tap test. You have commented the ringing, the overtones etc quite well, but have you considered how "well tuned" the harmonics are and how evenly they fade out?

The reason I'm asking is that I discussed the development of Harmonihyllan with Anders at Tonläget last year, and he shared thoughts that have gone a couple of rounds in my head since. One was that for the rack (or specifically, the shelf) to sound good, it needed to have a harmonic tap sound to begin with. If it rings forever doesn't matter, as this can later be properly damped. But if the tap sound is unpleasant or out of tune, the gear standing on it will be affected in the exact same way.

The third thought was that if we really wanted to explore this further, we could set up a simple way to record the tap sound of each plinths, which could later be used to learn more about the relationship between tap sound and performance.

I agree this last part is a bit excessive... :D but it could probably result in increased knowledge. Whether that knowledge becomes useful or useless is another matter. I tend to structure and save as much information as possible from every electronic experiment I make. At least half of that has turned out to be information I can draw conclusions from at a later point.
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Post by ThomasOK »

lejonklou wrote:The second thought is about the tap test. You have commented the ringing, the overtones etc quite well, but have you considered how "well tuned" the harmonics are and how evenly they fade out?
Yes, this is basically what I am now listening for when I am using the tap test on a plinth. I find that some plinths have a resonance that is more harmonic sounding than others (Movingui, Wenge, Mayan Rosewood). Other plinths sound less harmonically balanced (Black Ash, Cherry) or deader (Afromosia) and some also have a bit of a "trashy" or harsh sound to the tone. On some the tone rings longer and on others shorter. Based on my experience so far I believe that you want a plinth that has a harmonically balanced tone that has some ring to it but not too much. The wood I have heard with a long ring is the Mayan Rosewood and it has a touch of that artificial detail you hear in some components that push the mids or upper mids forward. Other plinths have a very short ring and they don't sound right to me either. I don't believe that we have any real control on the damping in the LP12 (unlike a furniture manufacturer would) so I don't think we can start out with a plinth with a long but harmonious ring and have it be ideal. That said the Mayan Rosewood does sound quite good - just not as good as the Movingui or, IMHO, the Wenge although those two are close.

So, until I hear a wood that proves me wrong, I think the best sounding plinth will have a harmonious tap sound that is well balanced across a range of frequencies and has a mild to moderate amount of ring with an even fade out.
lejonklou wrote:The third thought was that if we really wanted to explore this further, we could set up a simple way to record the tap sound of each plinths, which could later be used to learn more about the relationship between tap sound and performance.

I agree this last part is a bit excessive... :D but it could probably result in increased knowledge. Whether that knowledge becomes useful or useless is another matter. I tend to structure and save as much information as possible from every electronic experiment I make. At least half of that has turned out to be information I can draw conclusions from at a later point.
Interesting idea. This might be helpful although I would think you would have to do the taps under controlled circumstances: same mic and recorder, same acoustic environment, same person tapping with equal strength, etc. for it to work. And then how much of the difference would be lost on the recording? I can tell you that a friend decided to measure the resonance characteristics of a number of the plinths using a transducer and an accelerometer. I let him borrow five plinths and he tested them all. He could find nothing whatsoever in the resonance charts generated that in any way correlated with the musical findings when listened to on an LP12 or even with what he heard while tapping the plinths!
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Tony Tune-age
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Post by Tony Tune-age »

Just replaced my Afromosia plinth with a Movingui plinth, made by Chris. It is a very well made product, and the finish is essentially perfect.

While it can be difficult to describe how a product sounds, the first area of sonic improvement was voices. Basically voices are more human sounding and lyrics are much easier to understand.

Musical instruments sound better as well, especially with complex recordings. It's even easier to identify the types of instruments being used, no matter how complex the arrangement.

I have spent more money on audio upgrades that didn't provide near the improvement of this new plinth.
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