Booplinth

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Booplinth

Post by David Neel »

I've recently had a booplinth fitted to my LP12. This is a plinth CNC machined from bamboo laminate blocks. It's lighter and more rigid than a normal LP12 plinth, and removes a considerable amount of "noise" from the LP12, meaning that more music gets through. http://www.booplinth.com/

I believe that a few people close to Lejonklou have had a demonstration and heard the difference it makes. After ten days, I'm delighted with mine, on a Radikal/Keel/Ekos SE/Akiva/Urika, and think it is a more fundamental upgrade than Radikal or Keel. If you get the chance - just listen!

P.S. I've no connection with booplinth other than being a long-standing customer of Brian and Trevors.
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Re: Booplinth

Post by HIDDENSYSTEMS »

Yes, as part of Fredrik's UK tour we did visit some other HiFi retailers including Brian and Trevors to be able to demo and offer them alternative pre and power amps.

It was great to see visit there and to see Booplinths, anything Bamboo is very cool with us.

We had a quick listen to their test decks, standard and Boo - LP12s c/w Lingo, Akito2, Adikt,
Majik DSM (2?) Majik 140's (with bass links still in, not my preference) but you could instantly here "more".
Hope to borrow a Boo and play on a deck in our labs with Tiger Paw Akula sub chassis.
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Re: Booplinth

Post by lejonklou »

I heard a brief demonstration of booplinth at House of Linn two weeks ago, when visiting with Chris and Neil.

Two mid- and equally speced LP12's with solid baseboard (not Trampolin) were one at a time placed on the same Quadraspire wall shelf. One of the LP12's had a standard Linn plinth, the other had a booplinth.

The difference was impressive. The booplinth LP12 made the song we heard much better. More nuanced, more in time, bass notes were more in tune and there was simply more information.

I'd like to test the booplinth myself, using optimized torques, highest spec parts (Ekos SE, Keel and Radikal) and Trampolin. In my opinion there is so much performance to gain by torquing a standard LP12 that it's almost impossible to correctly judge a part before you have optimized everything for both options.

I hope to be able to do this, but at the moment I have so many orders and upgrades waiting that I have to focus on them.
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Re: Booplinth

Post by John »

I found this dem interesting as posted on the Linn forum:

[quote='starman' pid='360254' dateline='1433498006']
I went with a friend to look at the LP12, ay Linn House, Brian and Trevor were very excited about the Booplinth, we listened to various set ups before the final one, which was a comparison of: Radikal LP12 with Keel, Akito arm and MC KLyde against Booplinth LP12 with Kore, Lingo, Akito and MM Adikt. So cost 10K against 6k.
To our ears, the Booplinth was the better option.

On returning home , we listened to my LP12 with the old flutted plinth dating back to the around 1978. That was great as well.
You have to go and listen and then make your own judgments.
[/quote]

Better power supply, sub-chassis, phono cartridge vs Booplinth, lesser power supply, sub-chassis, phono cartridge.

Do we have a new hierarchy? Reminds me of the old Ittok/Troika vs Ekos/K18 dems performed back when the Ekos first came out.

I have always wondered if the wood plinths sound/perform better with age just as an old guitar does. Perhaps the wood structure becomes more like bamboo.
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Re: Booplinth

Post by stefan »

John wrote:.........
I have always wondered if the wood plinths sound/perform better with age just as an old guitar does. Perhaps the wood structure becomes more like bamboo.
I really don't think so. I recently changed from 1988 Afro with cirkus to a 2012 Cherry ie same specs, using the same arm/radikal motor and the new one was quite a bit better.

But this is very interesting, for Keel money you can get Kore+Booplinth. Also makes you wonder how a Harmonihylla with bamboo shelfs would perform.
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Re: Booplinth

Post by matthias »

HIDDENSYSTEMS wrote: Hope to borrow a Boo and play on a deck in our labs with Tiger Paw Akula sub chassis.
Chris, very cool, you have a TP Akula in your labs. Can you tell us about your listening impressions with this sub chassis?
Thanks

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Re: Booplinth

Post by moog_man »

stefan wrote:
John wrote:.........
But this is very interesting, for Keel money you can get Kore+Booplinth.
Excellent point - thank you
LP12_Radikal/2_Keel_Karousel_Ittok III_Akiva. Ak Tuner. UDP-205. Kontrol/2. Solo_Ak 212. 2250_Ak 225
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Re: Booplinth

Post by matthias »

stefan wrote:But this is very interesting, for Keel money you can get Kore+Booplinth.
Yes, or Akula + Booplinth

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Re: Booplinth

Post by matthias »

HIDDENSYSTEMS wrote: Hope to borrow a Boo and play on a deck in our labs with Tiger Paw Akula sub chassis.
Chris,
it would be nice to share with us your listening impressions with Akula and/or Booplinth.
Thank you very much.

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Re: Booplinth

Post by stefan »

http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/booplinth/

According to this, your best upgrade regardless of what level your LP12 are! Anyone attended the Bristol show and heard this demo?
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Re: Booplinth

Post by David Neel »

Hi Stefan,

I've heard the Booplinth demo three times now. First at House of Linn, then at the Bristol show, then finally a before-and-after when my plinth was fitted. In each demo the superior musicality of the Booplinth was immediately clear, even more so on my own deck (full Klimax spec with Akiva) than on the Lingo/Akito/Adikt demo decks.

Since I got the Booplinth fitted (and more recently bought a Kremlin!) the ADS/1 has not been used.

It may be worth contacting B&T to see if they know of one near you.
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Re: Booplinth

Post by matthias »

David Neel wrote:I've heard the Booplinth demo three times now. First at House of Linn, then at the Bristol show, then finally a before-and-after when my plinth was fitted. In each demo the superior musicality of the Booplinth was immediately clear, even more so on my own deck (full Klimax spec with Akiva) than on the Lingo/Akito/Adikt demo decks.
Since I got the Booplinth fitted (and more recently bought a Kremlin!) the ADS/1 has not been used.
Does the Booplinth rank the number one position in the LP12 hierarchy?

KR Matt
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Re: Booplinth

Post by David Neel »

matthias wrote: Does the Booplinth rank the number one position in the LP12 hierarchy?

KR Matt
I don't know for sure, as I have not done those demos. But I suspect it does, based on what it brings to the LP12.
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Re: Booplinth

Post by matthias »

David Neel wrote:
matthias wrote:Does the Booplinth rank the number one position in the LP12 hierarchy?
KR Matt
I don't know for sure, as I have not done those demos. But I suspect it does, based on what it brings to the LP12.
The most interesting part of the review is this one:
"Which of course, left only one other thing to do: drop the Klimax innards into a booplinth. Trevor duly obliged and we sat back to see whether the natural order had been restored. Which it had, but only in part. Now, all the benefits of the Klimax rig were working for it and finally working together – it’s just that even so, the ‘junior’ set up (somewhere between an LP12 Majik and an Akurate) got uncomfortably close. It might not have matched its bigger and much more expensive brother in terms of subtlety and detail, but boy was it fun to listen to – the very quality which established the LP12’s reputation in the first place."

So, with the Booplinth fitted some most expensive parts like Keel, Radikal, Ekos SE and Kandid seem not to play that role in comparison to a standard plinth fitted. That means the Booplinth is contributing to the musical performance much more than the sum of the expensive Linn parts. Very interesting.

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Re: Booplinth

Post by David Neel »

My hypothesis is that the material and construction of booplinth results in a more rigid turntable with less vibration/resonance, which allows more information to be captured at the stylus. Whatever the reason, my LP12 is performing at a much better level than before, and the realism/musicality of some recordings (such as Linn's new Mozart Requiem) is uncanny. It is undoubtedly the biggest upgrade I have experienced as my 1983 LP12 has slowly evolved to Klimax level over the last seven years.
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Re: Booplinth

Post by ThomasOK »

As Fredrik is aware, I purchased a booplinth for evaluation. It took a while to arrive as they were pretty heavily backordered but I did receive it about a month ago and set about getting an LP12 into it and giving it a listen. I finished my evaluation of the booplinth and thought I should update everybody on my findings. As always, I try to be completely fair to any new item I test so I try to make the conditions as identical as possible for the items I will be comparing. In this case I installed the store's demo LP12 with Keel, Ekos SE, Kandid and Radikal into the booplinth and brought in my personal LP12 that is configured identically with the exception of a Woodsong Movingui plinth. The two Kandids are even of about the same age. They were both set on top of a double-wide Quadraspire Sunoko-vent rack running into Lejonklou Sagatun Mono 1.1 preamps and Lejonklou Tundra Mono 2 amps into Vandersteen Treo speakers. I used a single Radikal to keep things as even as possible and all cabling was Linn (stock power cable, silver interconnects and 2.48m split K400) except for Lejonklou power cables on the Sagatuns and Tundras. I did not do a ‘tap tone” test on the booplinth before listening to it as I didn’t want to bias my listening.

For my first comparison, which I conducted in my system at home, I used the same torques on all fasteners as I use on any other LP12. After this I emailed booplinth asking for their input on torques. They recommended when I use the same settings I use for any LP12 with the same components. But as I know the LP12 is very sensitive to torques, I put it back in the jig and listened to a small range of torques around my normal settings on the three sets that would be effected by the plinth: the two top plate bolts, the motor corner stud and the hinge plates. I found that that the top plate bolts and the hinge plate screws were the most musical with exactly the same torques that work on other plinths and the motor corner stud was only one notch higher (around 1 or 2 hundredths of a Newton meter). So it does appear that it should be setup pretty much the same way as a standard LP12.

I had this setup up and running for a week in the larger sound room in the store (the one Fredrik and I used for the US introduction of the Sagatun preamps) and played the comparison for the employees and a number of customers, as well as for Debbie at home. I did not preface any of the comparisons with any commentary except to explain that these were two identical LP12s except for the plinths. Some who heard the comparison had heard of the booplinth and knew its reputation and others did not. None of us felt the booplinth was close to the Woodsong plinth, which was more tuneful with more impact in the bass and the emotions of vocalists better conveyed. Subtleties of instrumental tone, harmonics and techniques of playing also came through better on the Movingui plinth. One of the customers who heard it when he came by to have me look at the cueing device on his LP12 was not aware of the booplinth or the sound of plinths in general. After hearing the demo and the difference a plinth could make he ordered a $2500 Woodsong plinth.

After a week I took my LP12 back home and then after the weekend I switched the store LP12 back to its stock Walnut plinth. Even though this particular Walnut plinth is not one of the best I have heard, and is way short of the Movingui as heard in previous comparisons, TJ (one of the salesmen here) and I both felt that it was also more tuneful and musically enjoyable than the booplinth, although a little lighter in the bass. Obviously this wasn't a direct A/B but I did the swap back quickly so there was only a maximum of a half hour in between A and B.

Besides the musical quality I also found some flaws in the appearance, which while not huge, were nonetheless unexpected in a plinth of this price. There were a couple of voids that went through the side of the plinth that had been filled with putty but were quite visible and there were also some surface flaws in the wood. There was also a small finish bur that initially kept the switch corner of the top plate from making the best contact but I scraped it off and everything fit right, although I noticed the top plate also sits slightly above flush with the top of the plinth.

So, in conclusion I am not happy with the performance of the booplinth, and it seems to me that this is not a good place for the use of laminated bamboo. I also feel the finish could be better. I am quite sure that a plinth with these finish flaws would not pass quality control at Linn, much less compete with the stunningly finished Woodsong plinths Chris makes. Now I have to say that some of my disappointment has to do with the pricing of the booplinth and this is a situation that would likely be much different in the UK. Although Brian and Trevor are just suggesting it sell for the US dollar equivalent of the UK price, that would still bring it in at somewhere between $2300 and $2400. I expect if they were to have a US distributor it would end up a bit above that. This compares to $840 for a stock Linn plinth and $1000 to $2500 for most Woodsong plinths, depending on the wood. Note that my favorite Movingui plinth is $1000 although my very close second favorite Cocobola (which is becoming increasingly rare) is $2500. I’m sure that the situation in the UK is quite different since the Woodsong plinths are made here and the booplinth is made there. However, when looking at a Linn plinth the price difference is quite substantial in either country and I still don’t find it an upgrade over the stock Walnut. As for looks, which is secondary to me – I would have ripped my Movingui off if the booplinth had been more musical – there really is no comparison. An interesting product, and I really appreciate Brian and Trevor allowing me to evaluate it. Brian, who I conversed with both via email and on the phone, was very gracious and helpful and I wish them well.
Last edited by ThomasOK on 2016-01-02 21:36, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Booplinth

Post by Erik »

Thanks for the write up Thomas.
I've been curious about what the Booplinth might offer but now feel comfortable to keep my Movingu plinth.
Happy new year!

/Erik
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Re: Booplinth

Post by donuk »

You really don't need to buy HiFi magazines any more with contributors like Thomas.

Keep up the good work and happy new year...

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Post by Ron The Mon »

ThomasOK wrote:I did not do a "tap tone” test on the booplinth before listening to it as I didn’t want to bias my listening...

I also found some flaws in the appearance,... There were a couple of voids that went through the side of the plinth that had been filled with putty but were quite visible...

...and there were also some surface flaws in the wood...
Tom,
Did you do a "tap-tone test" at all? Was there a significant amount of filler putty used? If so, do you think it was cosmetic or to affect the sound? Putty (and mastic, and Blu-Tack, etc.) definitely makes any LP12 I've heard sound less tuneful regardless of where it's attached. Do you know or can you guess the finish used? I ask as Chris Harbin details his build quality in great detail except for the finish. I believe that may be one reason his Woodsong plinths sound so good.

By the way, boo to you for not inviting me to the demo! Not that I needed to hear a glued/dried-grass plinth (not "wood" as you stated in your post) as my mind was settled on this long ago. However, a chance to hear your Woodsong/SE deck into the newest version Sagatun and Tundra monos would have been fun!

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Re: Booplinth

Post by ThomasOK »

Hi Ron, I had intended to mention the tap tone but forgot it in the original review. I figured it wouldn't be long before somebody asked about it. I did test the tap tone after I removed the booplinth from the LP12. It sounded very dead as I suppose you would expect it to. There was not a significant amount of putty or filler used, I would guess not enough to change the vibrational characteristics of the plinth. I believe the tap tone is almost certainly typical of what would be expected from a bunch of laminated strips of bamboo as that is a fair amount of glue we are talking about. Based on my experience so far, with both plinths and the Harmoni racks, it appears that the most musical results are achieved when the wood used has a very musical and harmonic tone with a broad range of frequencies present and a bit of ring but not too much. Too long a ring produces a forwardness in the midrange and upper midrange emphasizing things like guitar string sound, brassiness in brass instruments, etc. with a loss of tunefulness; very little or no ring makes for a kind of soft, dead sound making it harder to hear transients and harmonics, again making the music harder to follow. I believe that the wood in both an LP12 plinth and a Harmoni rack acts as a vibration sink for the energy of the top plate or component sitting on it respectively. My theory is that if it is too dead it doesn't do a good enough job sinking the energy but kind of holds it and reflects it back muddying things up - hence the sound of massive turntables and racks made out of MDF. But if it is too live it definitely reflects back too much energy causing that forward, unbalanced sound and if it is not a harmonic resonance the inharmony also shows up in the sound of the turntable/component. Just my theory but it does appear to be how things have been working, although there are some differences in what makes the best plinth vs. what makes the best rack.

In case I gave the wrong impression, the gaps I talked about were quite quite small (one more like a small slit and another a small triangle) and very few (I only noticed two). They did not fill the entire depth of the holes but just the surface on the outside - which I consider the best way to have done it. They were small enough that many people might not have noticed them, I just felt they didn't belong in a plinth of that price. Admittedly I am a bit spoiled by the quality of plinth Chris makes, but I still feel these flaws wouldn't have passed inspection at Linn either. It may be that it is just the nature of large blocks of laminated bamboo that there will be voids or it might just be that I got a less than the best one in terms of the finish, I just don't know. I also don't know what finish is used. I would guess a thin spray lacquer with some tint in it. I believe I read somewhere that they did a bit of research on what finish worked best but I don't know if that was physically, musically or both.

As to the finish being a part of the sound, I am pretty sure that is definitely the case with the plinths. Certainly it is well known that the quality and type of finish is an important part of the sound of wooden instruments. I believe there is still much speculation about the finishes used by people like Stradivari and Guarneri and how they made such wonderful violins, etc. I don't know that Chris is all that secretive about the finishing he does but there is no reason of him to give all his secrets away. It is certainly not normally a lacquer as is used on the Linn plinths. He uses a finish that is called an oil but is really technically a wiping varnish. I did a little studying of wood finishing, although I am certainly far from expert on the subject, but found out that many wood finishes are really much different than what they are called on the label. Wiping varnish appears to be one of the better finishes among those that are relatively easy to use. It is obvious from just looking that Chris's finishing is of higher quality and more attractive than those from Linn and booplinth. But my understanding is that it is also used as it does not degrade over time the way a lacquer would, especially one that is exposed to the sun.

As to hearing my LP12 through Sagatun and Tundra Monos, just let me know when you'd like to hear it and I'm sure I can make arrangements.
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Re: Booplinth

Post by Charlie1 »

Thanks for the in-depth review Tom. Like many, I'm also interested in the Booplinth although it does seem expensive.

One question, is there any value in using the same deck to perform plinth comparisons in general? I presume you feel that any differences between the more fundamental elements (from source first perspective) such as main bearing/motor are not sufficient to warp the overall result. As someone that's not experienced the differences between main bearings/platters etc., I don't know to what extent new ones usually differ.
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Re: Booplinth

Post by ThomasOK »

Charlie1 wrote:Thanks for the in-depth review Tom. Like many, I'm also interested in the Booplinth although it does seem expensive.

One question, is there any value in using the same deck to perform plinth comparisons in general? I presume you feel that any differences between the more fundamental elements (from source first perspective) such as main bearing/motor are not sufficient to warp the overall result. As someone that's not experienced the differences between main bearings/platters etc., I don't know to what extent new ones usually differ.
I would have to say that it is difficult, if not impossible, to use the same turntable for plinth comparisons. The obvious reason is that you are going to have something like a half hour minimum space between A and B. Then you would have another half hour to go back to A. That half hour is also assuming everything fits nicely and goes together easily - a rash assumption. There are times when I have pulled an LP12 mechanics out of one plinth and put it into another just to find out I have to redo the suspension. Why is this? Well, the top plate rests on the three wood strips on the front, back and left side of the plinth as well as the two blocks front and back. As Chris Harban has pointed out on the Linn forums, and any good LP12 technician knows, this interface is very important to the sound of the LP12. But there are few plinths that are as accurate in terms of the flatness and levelness of the strips and the blocks as the Woodsong plinths. These are, after all, pieces of wood and not exactly suited to precision manufacture. So if there is a bit of difference in the strips it will change how the top plate fits and that can change how the suspension works.

I knew I could make a fairly quick switch back from the booplinth to the stock Linn Walnut as I didn't have to readjust the suspension when I had moved it to the booplinth in the first place. Since I have the torques for the top plate bolts, and since these turntables had Urikas so there is no worry about cable dressing, it is a fairly quick matter to make the change. But trying to move it into a plinth you hadn't used before is likely to be more time consuming.

Certainly there are subtle differences between different cartridges so an A/B with two turntables can never be perfect. But the difference a plinth can make, while certainly not in the league of what a Radikal or a Keel does IMHO, is still quite substantial and easily audible. I do not believe the normal differences between two very good sounding Kandids, or Urikas for that matter, come close to changing the level of difference between two plinths.
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Re: Booplinth

Post by Charlie1 »

Thanks Tom. Makes sense. I certainly don't think anyone could do more. I suspect there are very few dealers that would even go to this far to decide whether or not to take on a new product.
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Re: Booplinth

Post by csfan »

Discussion about the pros and cons of Booplinth stopped shorly after ThomasOK's review in 2016.

It was before
1) the "LP12 Radikal problem" in 2018.
2) Linn's release of the Karousel bearing replacement kit in 2020.
Time for an update, isn't it?
How relevant is Booplinth today?

A member of the Lejonklou forum since 2015, it is the first time I dare contributing.
I learned a lot reading from you all, I feel it is time for me to reciprocate and share my experience.
I acquired my first LP12 in 1980 (when I joined a semi-professional choir my Rega3/Supex 900S was not enough anymore).
Linn LP12 is great because it has been continuously improved and I never regretted any of the multiple upgrades I made.
When well adjusted, true, the LP12 brings listening pleasure for hours and allows in-depth discovery of new music all sorts.
However, it is mission impossible to manufacture a product which is completely insensitive to the way it is installed.
Despite all Linn's care and efforts, LP12 is no exception.

I am the happy owner of a (gorgeous dark brown) Booplinth, why?
It all started when I replaced my Revox A700 with a much more reliable (and tape-friendly) Studer PR99 MK III.
This allowed me to further dig into my stock of studio master tapes.
Several 15ips tapes had been commercially released on LP allowing me to A/B compare at 33rpm and 45rpm on LP12.
Unsurprisingly the same music reproduced on tape was significantly more engaging.
Because LP is much more user-friendly I investigated on how to reduce the gap.
Among different options I chose to remain with Linn and explore around the LP12.
Reason why in 2016 I visited House of Linn and placed an order for Booplinth to replace a Linn walnut plinth on my LP12/Keel/Radikal/Urika/EkosSE/Akiva.
Listening at home I found that Booplinth had no plinth-ringing effect, a quality confirmed by Tune Dem.
A plinth "signature" can be pleasing at first, but to my ears a system able to reproduce music as close as intended by the musician/engineering team is more satisfactory.
BTW, could it be that this musical improvement was also because Booplinth is slightly higher than standard?
In which case perhaps Booplinth had solved by anticipation the "LP12 Radikal problem" (yet to be unveiled at the time).
Anyway, at this point the result was closer to the tape.

When my Akiva needed replacement I was A/B demo'ed a Kandid at my retailer by David Williamson.
I mostly listen to classical music (over 30 hours per week) and I instantly realised that Kandid was not for me.
A friend had a Koetsu Rosewood which I enjoyed on his system.
But as I couldn't compare and my Akiva was tired I decided to temporarily try a more affordable MC cartridge.
I was recommended an Ortofon Cadenza Blue, I immedialtely enjoyed its spaciousness.
It is still in use on another vintage LP12/Ittok.
I had already upgraded my Ekos SE with the latest version (Ekos SE/1) when Linn issued Krystal.
The wee beauty was fitted shortly after.
It sounded different, very enjoyable if less detailled than Cadenza, with a strong personality at ease with hard rock.
When it started to show signs of tireness, I started to look around for a more neutral option.
I attended an Audio Technica cartridge demo.
My blind test second choice after the beautifully lifelike and expensive ART1000 was the OC9 of the time.
Following HiFinews' enthousiast review in October 2019 I acquired the new model called AT-OC9XSH.
At half the price of a stylus change for Krystal it was a no brainer.
What? A cheap cartridge on a Klimax Aktiv system?
YES, provided it is aligned with care (took me ages as the Shibata stylus is very demanding), it extracts loads of details and vividly sings with any kind of music.
Plus it tracks amazingly well, a quality many MC lovers don't put first but which, to me, is a critical requirement.
It contributed to reduce the gap, but still, not enough for me.

The Karousel kit was announced just when I was seriously considering a swap of my ageing Cirkus with a new one.
For a while I had suspected the LP12 bearing was the weak point of the LP12.
I even tried Tiger Paw Tranquility.
I must say that by comparison I enjoyed many aspects of it.
But still there was something mising compared to my other vintage LP12/Cirkus/AC motor.
It was shocking!
I use my main LP12 a lot more than the two others but it had been regularly serviced, so why?.
In despair I vacuumed the bearing and put 100% new Linn oil.
I suppose there were debris or something because I heard a real improvement and TP's Tranquility was removed.
At least, my LP12 was back to life again.
But Karousel brought the ultimate answer with further 3D details, beautifully textured voices and instruments, and better rhythm accuracy.
With Karousel the gap with tape was significantly reduced, excellent!

Ultimately, I found that installing the LP12 directly on the frame spikes of my wall-mounted shelf constantly provided a more natural yet spectacular presentation.
Spikes are holding Booplinth exactly where the basic Linn rubber feet would be located.
The Trampolin feet are hanging, bypassed but not removed so the LP12 integrity is not compromised.
I guess that the Booplinth said to be rigid, one-piece, resonance-free and light bamboo design brings extra stability to the suspended sub-chassis which is now solely in charge of the acoustic isolation.
With no interference from the wobbly rubber feet of Radikal my LP12 never sounded so close to real life with any kind of music played on acoustic instruments by soloists or big orchestras... as well as heavy metal at very high volume!
Gap with tape still exists, of course, but is tiny enough to position my LP12 back as my #1 source, by far.

Today I would say that the LP12 weak point is somewhere at the plinth/Trampolin wobbly feet level and that until Linn produces an upgrade Booplinth remains a relevant upgrade option.
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Matteo
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Re: Booplinth

Post by Matteo »

Thanks csfan

Great story

M.
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