Validated Designs for Streaming

Charlie1 · Post by **Charlie1** » 2014-01-04 12:54

Whilst my job is in IT, I still find the world of digital streaming to be a minefield. There are so many elements.

I want to put together a budget streaming solution at home. Whilst I may well have to trawl through the various forum threads to get tips on where to start, it would be great if we could have a sticky thread that includes a couple of validated designs at the beginning on the thread, that are kept up to date. Perhaps two designs, one for large installations, using a NAS, and a small setup using laptop or iOS/Android device. The difficulties being agreement on what's best from a Tune Method perspective and finding someone willing to take responsibility to keep it up to date. What do you folks reckon?

ThomasOK · Post by **ThomasOK** » 2014-01-04 20:59

First I think you need to define "budget streaming" a bit. Are you talking less than Linn money? That opens up a whole lot of questions including how robust the applications are, etc. Do you want to stick with UPnP or are other options considered? I will assume you are wanting Ethernet streaming rather than something like a USB DAC. Additional info would help.

Charlie1 · Post by **Charlie1** » 2014-01-04 22:28

I'm definitely not thinking of a Linn streamer. It's just a bit of fun and to be able to stream Spotify via our Kitchen midi system. There's also several dozen albums I can stream from Amazon having bought the vinyl

Budget is about 300USD, but actually I would like to get started at the very bottom and just buy a cable to link iPad/iPhone headphone jack to RCA, presuming this is the best method

However, if that proves successful, then I'm keen to know what the next step or two would be, within my limited budget

SaltyDog · Post by **SaltyDog** » 2014-01-05 07:09

Charlie1, I just bought my brother a Denon DNP-720AE from Crutchfields. Just as in only hours ago. At a price of $299.00 coincidently.

Never heard one or even seen one before. Unfortunately we live 1000 miles apart so I'll not be hearing it any time soon AFAIK.

I am quite sure I will know more about setting one up over the phone with a guy that still hasn't figured out how to turn on the wi-fi on his phone.

Plan is to use jRiver Media Center on a PC with external HDD.

rowlandhills · Post by **rowlandhills** » 2014-01-05 09:35

No real comments yet on musicality, but I have a Raspberry Pi in use as a streamer in my bedroom. It shows up in Kinsky like my Linn DSs, can access the same music etc. Cost is under £50, which allows lots of potential for adding a DAC, better power supply etc to improve musicality later.

Charlie1 · Post by **Charlie1** » 2014-01-05 13:37

Thanks guys!

Is jriver only used when playing your own stored music - i.e. Not when streaming off amazon or Spotify?

I looked at Raspberry PI. Is the main advantage being I don't need to leave my Laptop or idevice connected to the stereo? Must admit that messing around with Linux etc doesn't appeal much. My fear is spending many hours getting it all to work, which is not the direction I want to head down, unless you think otherwise Rowland?

Linnofil · Post by **Linnofil** » 2014-01-05 15:13

I think a cable is a good place to start. Try to find a cable with the Apple connector in one end and RCA in the other.
Like this one:

It sounds a lot better than when using the headphone output. Then you can stream from WiMP, Youtube etc. or FLAC/MP3 files from a computer/NAS in your home. Another option is uploading the FLAC/ALAC files to your iPad and play directly from the iPad. (Using the app, media:connect or any other similar app.)

SaltyDog · Post by **SaltyDog** » 2014-01-05 16:29

Charlie1 are you a PC guy?

jRiver has a new MAC version but the old one was as bad as the PC one is good. No idea about the new one.

I listen almost exclusively to my library. There are so many features I haven't looked into. I just had a glance and found under the AUDIO - CONNECTED MEDIA menus (not sure menu is the correct term) all kinds of things like radio stations, SHOUTCast and such.

Amazon, CD Baby, HD Tracks, are in SERVICES & PLUGINS.

There is a free 30 day trial download available.

Charlie1 · Post by **Charlie1** » 2014-01-05 23:10

Linnofil wrote:I think a cable is a good place to start. Try to find a cable with the Apple connector in one end and RCA in the other.
It sounds a lot better than when using the headphone output. Then you can stream from WiMP, Youtube etc. or FLAC/MP3 files from a computer/NAS in your home. Another option is uploading the FLAC/ALAC files to your iPad and play directly from the iPad. (Using the app, media:connect or any other similar app.)

Cheers for the pic and info Linnofil

I've been looking into the various cables. Nothing is ever simple!

Our iPad 4 uses the newer Apple Lightning connector and, reading online, doesn't appear to include a DAC and analogue out, so I presume I can't use it instead of the headphone socket, although not 100% sure

The iPhone 4S belongs to work. I didn't really want to use it, but it might be the best option after all, following your comments. I've ordered a cable which was cheap enough (£5)

The Galaxy Ace 2 is my wife's phone and we could use this. It has a headphone socket and also micro-USB. The micro-USB seems to be a bit like the Apple Lightning socket and I don't think it provides analogue out

Our HP ProBook is running Windows 7. It has a 3.5mm headphone socket and that's about it. The 3.5-to-RCA cables are so cheap (£2) that I've ordered one anyway

Thanks again!

Charlie1 · Post by **Charlie1** » 2014-01-05 23:13

SaltyDog wrote:Charlie1 are you a PC guy?

jRiver has a new MAC version but the old one was as bad as the PC one is good. No idea about the new one.

I listen almost exclusively to my library. There are so many features I haven't looked into. I just had a glance and found under the AUDIO - CONNECTED MEDIA menus (not sure menu is the correct term) all kinds of things like radio stations, SHOUTCast and such.

Amazon, CD Baby, HD Tracks, are in SERVICES & PLUGINS.

There is a free 30 day trial download available.

Thanks Salty! Yes, we use Windows 7 on the laptop

Once the Internet streaming is working, then I'll explore storing my own music and JR trial

PS I've now spent over £8 incl shipping on this project - I need to get a grip before things spiral out of control

SaltyDog · Post by **SaltyDog** » 2014-01-06 00:12

Charlie1 be warned. My venture started with the simple desire to stream Christmas music for a party 9 years ago.

I think I went from 400-500 CDs to 2900 Albums in 9 years.

400-500 LP albums were accumulated in 25 years of LP12 use.

Listening hours proportional.

ThomasOK · Post by **ThomasOK** » 2014-01-07 00:25

You might want to check out a couple of the devices from Arcam. They have some relatively inexpensive units that sound pretty good (although, admittedly, I haven't tune method compared them to more expensive products). The rDock-Uni has a lightning connector and the ability to connect older 30 pin iDevice units through a USB connection. It has a decent DAC, and a coax output for connection to even better DACs. It sells for $299US. There is also the rBlink that is similar except input is only through Bluetooth that runs $249US. I would hope you would have a dealer there who would let you try them out.

Charlie1 · Post by **Charlie1** » 2014-01-07 15:17

Connected the iPhone via 30-pin-to-RCA cable today and it sounds fine via the midi system downstairs. Just have to see how much use it gets now.

I also connected it to my main system and it went bonkers. It doesn't like mobile devices near it at the best of times, but this was worse. There was a really loud click every second or so - as well as the normal gibbering I get from mobiles. The iPhone and Kikkin volume were both turned right down, but it was really loud. Not going to do that again in a hurry

ThomasOK wrote:You might want to check out a couple of the devices from Arcam. They have some relatively inexpensive units that sound pretty good (although, admittedly, I haven't tune method compared them to more expensive products). The rDock-Uni has a lightning connector and the ability to connect older 30 pin iDevice units through a USB connection. It has a decent DAC, and a coax output for connection to even better DACs. It sells for $299US. There is also the rBlink that is similar except input is only through Bluetooth that runs $249US. I would hope you would have a dealer there who would let you try them out.

Thanks Thomas. I'll check it out when the time comes. Sounds very flexible

Linnofil · Post by **Linnofil** » 2014-01-07 17:41

Charlie1 wrote:Connected the iPhone via 30-pin-to-RCA cable today and it sounds fine via the midi system downstairs. Just have to see how much use it gets now.

Good to hear that there is progress in your quest for streaming!

I would like to mention that the new lightning connector does not support analouge audio out. So the pretty good sound that you can get from a 3Gs to 4s via the 30 pin connector is not possible from the lightning connector in the newer Apple devices. My iPhone 5s sounds like crap with the Apple cable adapter. It turns out that Apple has a (crappy) DAC in the cable! I was so happy when I found an Apple original cable(*) that supported analog audio out. But that was a huge mistake! To bad it sounds like crap from the analouge headset output to... I need a 4s now!

I used to listen to my iPhone 3Gs when working in my shed with a 30 pin/RCA adapter(**) and I was happy with the sound for it's purposes. I mainly used the free "Jango Radio" app on it's highest audio setting over WLAN listening to my own station or some of the fun stations like "Hits of the 60's, 70's and 80's". Sometimes I used PlugPlayer for playing FLAC files from my (LS)NAS. It worked reasonably well until I got the new 5s!

So I think that using your iPad 4 is not possible for cheap streaming. You need a Arcam drDock or similar. But that is not so cheap anymore. You can get a Squeezebox Classik and a NAS (both used) for £200!

(*)I bought this cable in Sweden here:
http://www.netonnet.se/art/dator/kabel- ... 7277.7939/
(**)The cable pictured in my previous post. I bought it in Sweden here:
http://www.teknikproffset.se/MOBIL/Appl ... h-iPad.htm

Charlie1 · Post by **Charlie1** » 2014-01-11 11:20

Thanks Linnofil. Got the headphone-to-RCA connector and even that isn't too bad, especially through the Linn system. Surprising how low-fi never sounds as bad as you expect. Musically, it is hard work and you wouldn't want to play any jazz through it, but for children's tunes for the girls it's no big deal

ThomasOK · Post by **ThomasOK** » 2014-01-11 17:08

If you decide to try out an Arcam dock make sure that you get the rDock-Uni as the drDock does not support the lightning connector. The rDock-Uni has a lightning connector built in and a USB port on the back into which you can plug the 30 pin to USB cable that comes with older iDevices. They are both the same price.

Charlie1 · Post by **Charlie1** » 2014-01-11 22:24

Thanks for the heads-up Thomas

Lego · Post by **Lego** » 2014-02-25 00:38

Hi Charlie ..I found Deezer to sound way better than spotify ..spotify sounds bland in comparison .....I've started buying cds for the first time..be careful .Also dont take anything for granted listen to every combo..My nas died last week luckily I had an email from it warning me the drives were degraded..My daughter wanted to listen to her albums(flac) so I told her just to stream it via wireless from the Note to the Dell mini...she said it sounded the same or slightly better than the Nas wd book plugged in via ethernet..No chance i said..and to my surprise there wasnt much in it(hard drive vs ssd)..the storage definitely has the biggest influence on the sound...eg..deezer vs spotify..or you could buy a lightning thingy to usb out adapter and try a cheap dac like maplins for 30 quid

Charlie1 · Post by **Charlie1** » 2014-02-26 09:31

Cheers Leo. If things pick up, then I'll give them a go. Must admit, that there has been little interest in home music with the rest of the family since connecting our i-devices. I'm sure as my daughters get older and start playing in their own bedrooms, then things will change. Thanks again.