Scheming a DIY Tunebox idea in my head. Would like to move to Chakra twins one day, but as I use aktiv cards in my 2250's I can't. As the Klimax aktiv boxes are no longer available for Ninka. Plus would have added a lot more expense.
So, mount cards in a box, and power them with some sort of power pak.
What voltage do they require ?
Could I buy a SMPS, and power them direct, or is some other power regulation circuits needed after the SMPS.
Don't want to go back to Mono cards and an LK tunebox..... Might even consider getting new chakra cards to mount. Are they better than the stereo cards I wonder.
Thanks for any ideas.
Aktiv cards out of the amps
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Re: Aktiv cards out of the amps
The stereo aktiv cards have their own voltage regulation, which means they are reasonably easy to please. Power them with around +-20 V DC. You should check the heat and post-regulated voltages on the cards to make sure they are comfortable.9designs wrote:So, mount cards in a box, and power them with some sort of power pak. What voltage do they require ?
Could I buy a SMPS, and power them direct, or is some other power regulation circuits needed after the SMPS.
One challenge will be to make sure you get the grounding part right. This needs some planning and trial and error to obtain the best possible sound. The aktiv cards have both signal ground and power ground connections.
The new chakra (always mono) cards sound a bit better than the old (stereo or mono) cards, mainly due to (I suspect) better power regulation. The reason I suspect that is that the old cards had voltage regulation on-board, but were fed with quite different voltages from the amps they were put in. This made them run too hot (over voltage) or too cold (under voltage) in some card-amp combinations. This can in some cases cause under-performing systems and oscillation/hum problems.Might even consider getting new chakra cards to mount. Are they better than the stereo cards I wonder.
The new chakra cards don't have any regulation on-board. Instead this part is placed in the Chakra amp, which is a better solution IMO. The adapter cards that makes the new cards useable in older amps houses the voltage regulation part, and to prevent the over/under-voltage problem, some resistors in the old amp need to be replaced.
Re: Aktiv cards out of the amps
Is this always the case? I have not yet installed my Chakra aktiv cards in my LK100, but I've read the instructions and can't remember anything about removing resistors.lejonklou wrote: The adapter cards that makes the new cards useable in older amps houses the voltage regulation part, and to prevent the over/under-voltage problem, some resistors in the old amp need to be replaced.
Well, it was easy to misinterpret what we were discussing...
If you think about it, isn't there really an enormous amount of things that Linn retailers are required to know and do? Keeping track of old models, how they perform and what they can do, how to modify them by cutting links, soldering cables and even replacing electronic components!
It might seem easy for those who have been involved for decades, but imagine starting as a Linn retailer today, from scratch, knowing nothing. That would be a challenge...
If you think about it, isn't there really an enormous amount of things that Linn retailers are required to know and do? Keeping track of old models, how they perform and what they can do, how to modify them by cutting links, soldering cables and even replacing electronic components!
It might seem easy for those who have been involved for decades, but imagine starting as a Linn retailer today, from scratch, knowing nothing. That would be a challenge...
Frederik,
agree. Just out of interest I have been reading some of the requirements for DS installation. This now adds network building/maintenance and all the jargon and expertise this entails.
I also read somewhere that Linn suggest that if the level of knowledge is insufficient, there are college/university courses that may be of value!!! Indeed, poor retailer. "and while you are setting up my new network could you just install the keel"!! Well at least the work is varied.
Steve.
agree. Just out of interest I have been reading some of the requirements for DS installation. This now adds network building/maintenance and all the jargon and expertise this entails.
I also read somewhere that Linn suggest that if the level of knowledge is insufficient, there are college/university courses that may be of value!!! Indeed, poor retailer. "and while you are setting up my new network could you just install the keel"!! Well at least the work is varied.
Steve.
You definitely aren't kidding about what is involved. Even the Linn software uploads for UniDisks and others aren't simple - they don't work on some PCs and work fine on others, and none of them work on Macs.
Starting a new dealership from scratch would indeed be difficult. Come to think of it, considering that I have worked on and sold Linn products for almost 30 years, sold macs and PCs for 14 years, am an Apple Certified service technician for computers and printers, can set up LP12s as good as any and better than most and am referred to by customers and co-workers as a walking encyclopedia on Linn equipment, you would think I would be in really high demand! So why am I making less than I was 8 years ago?!
I guess it is a good thing I like my work.
Starting a new dealership from scratch would indeed be difficult. Come to think of it, considering that I have worked on and sold Linn products for almost 30 years, sold macs and PCs for 14 years, am an Apple Certified service technician for computers and printers, can set up LP12s as good as any and better than most and am referred to by customers and co-workers as a walking encyclopedia on Linn equipment, you would think I would be in really high demand! So why am I making less than I was 8 years ago?!
I guess it is a good thing I like my work.
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Re: Aktiv cards out of the amps
Fredrik
This thread got me thinking...
I have a great business idea for you :mrgreen:
Design your own tunebox with PS and connections to host chakra Xover boards!
With same attention to details (cable direction, earthing etc) as usual, I bet you can make it faar better than having boards inside the amps...
Halfway to Klimax Xover filters even?
What about 1k€ for the box without Xover cards?
I think the market going to be HUUUUGE :shock:
Optional, make it possible to adjust the filters in steps less than the chakra standard +-1dB.
Down to 1/8dB make a huge difference!
+-1dB is almost useless :?
This going to further enhance performance a GOOD step.
Bring it on mate
btw, I have heard that 350A has same X-over boards inside the speaker as the "chakra boards", used in chakra amps.
If the Artikulat Klimax Xover is constructed as other Klimax Xovers, it has the same Xover circuit design as chakra boards but are fully integrated on the circuit board
This thread got me thinking...
I have a great business idea for you :mrgreen:
Design your own tunebox with PS and connections to host chakra Xover boards!
With same attention to details (cable direction, earthing etc) as usual, I bet you can make it faar better than having boards inside the amps...
Halfway to Klimax Xover filters even?
What about 1k€ for the box without Xover cards?
I think the market going to be HUUUUGE :shock:
Optional, make it possible to adjust the filters in steps less than the chakra standard +-1dB.
Down to 1/8dB make a huge difference!
+-1dB is almost useless :?
This going to further enhance performance a GOOD step.
Bring it on mate
btw, I have heard that 350A has same X-over boards inside the speaker as the "chakra boards", used in chakra amps.
If the Artikulat Klimax Xover is constructed as other Klimax Xovers, it has the same Xover circuit design as chakra boards but are fully integrated on the circuit board
It's all about musical understanding!
Thanks for the idea!
What I wonder is how much better it can get to house the cards in a tunebox instead of the amps. I don't think they will ever come close to the Klimax Xovers in performance. The regulated power and the level adjustment circuitry is already present in the Chakra amps, feels like a bit of a waste not using them.
But for those moving up to Klimax Twin, Solo or another brand (where there is no room for aktiv cards), a separate box to a lower price than Klimax Xovers could be a good idea.
I agree about the level of adjustment, though. Steps of 1 dB are far too big. On the other hand, when the adjustments are hardly ever used, the retailer has one less thing to care about on the installation.
EDIT: Didn't think of the amps without room for aktiv cards...
What I wonder is how much better it can get to house the cards in a tunebox instead of the amps. I don't think they will ever come close to the Klimax Xovers in performance. The regulated power and the level adjustment circuitry is already present in the Chakra amps, feels like a bit of a waste not using them.
But for those moving up to Klimax Twin, Solo or another brand (where there is no room for aktiv cards), a separate box to a lower price than Klimax Xovers could be a good idea.
I agree about the level of adjustment, though. Steps of 1 dB are far too big. On the other hand, when the adjustments are hardly ever used, the retailer has one less thing to care about on the installation.
EDIT: Didn't think of the amps without room for aktiv cards...
Last edited by lejonklou on 2007-12-09 13:17, edited 1 time in total.
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I never really got to the bottom of just what you do to a Chakra to modify it, just some power supply lead tweaks ?
On Linn speakers, that need a bit of "rounding off" maybe they are better. But my Dynaudio units are more demanding and revealing :D
Huge improvement ???, few things make "huge" improvements at this end of the scale IMO. I'm keeping that relative term in reserve for when I one may one day listen to a Kontrol and DS....Then Huge may be an appropriate term.
On Linn speakers, that need a bit of "rounding off" maybe they are better. But my Dynaudio units are more demanding and revealing :D
Huge improvement ???, few things make "huge" improvements at this end of the scale IMO. I'm keeping that relative term in reserve for when I one may one day listen to a Kontrol and DS....Then Huge may be an appropriate term.
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Inside chakra amps, it's a cable mess.
What you do is to basically put each cable in its correct direction, then you align them; each pair running parallel or each pair to be twisted? listen to decide.
In total three tweaks, each of them an improvement. The amp can be put back to original if needed...
Yes, I consider the total enhancement huge - given you have a high resolution and musical system that will say. Better flow...musicality...more POWER, DYNAMIC and SPEED...darker background...more details...effortless = Klimax feeling
Heard many chakra amps and compared them with other Linn amps...and Klimax amps are in a level for themselves!!
BUT - I like to compare a tweaked 200w chakra with a Twin.
I think it's halfway towards Twin in performance - if that can give you a feeling of what I call huge
NOTE all modifications have been done a by Linn specialists, do not open the amps yourself
What you do is to basically put each cable in its correct direction, then you align them; each pair running parallel or each pair to be twisted? listen to decide.
In total three tweaks, each of them an improvement. The amp can be put back to original if needed...
Yes, I consider the total enhancement huge - given you have a high resolution and musical system that will say. Better flow...musicality...more POWER, DYNAMIC and SPEED...darker background...more details...effortless = Klimax feeling
Heard many chakra amps and compared them with other Linn amps...and Klimax amps are in a level for themselves!!
BUT - I like to compare a tweaked 200w chakra with a Twin.
I think it's halfway towards Twin in performance - if that can give you a feeling of what I call huge
NOTE all modifications have been done a by Linn specialists, do not open the amps yourself
It's all about musical understanding!
That's a big improvement claim for tweaked cables...so Linn screwed the standard Chakra up then !!
Well problem is now solved......
As today I won the LK Tunebox on ebay.... and OUCH it cost..... But short of an Klimax TB, this must be second best....
Late spec, crinkle finish, black power button, Slimline SMPS, and full set of Ninka cards, in the late Surface Mount board design.... as about as common as rocking horse poo !!!!
So what tweaks can I do to get it closer to a Klimax TB....shame the looms are not available any more Fredrik.... swap my stereo ones for mono's !!!
So SMPS loom tweak, and the active looms ...yes ?
Now to save and find some Twins..... oh this is going to hurt !
Well problem is now solved......
As today I won the LK Tunebox on ebay.... and OUCH it cost..... But short of an Klimax TB, this must be second best....
Late spec, crinkle finish, black power button, Slimline SMPS, and full set of Ninka cards, in the late Surface Mount board design.... as about as common as rocking horse poo !!!!
So what tweaks can I do to get it closer to a Klimax TB....shame the looms are not available any more Fredrik.... swap my stereo ones for mono's !!!
So SMPS loom tweak, and the active looms ...yes ?
Now to save and find some Twins..... oh this is going to hurt !
To be fair, Linn have started paying attention to the direction of internal cables. At least some of them. Others are random or, in a few cases, impossible to change direction on due to the design.
I think the Chakra amps, both 100 and 200W, sound great. But with a little help they can gain those last few percent of performance, something that gives a rather strong impression when you hear it.
One free improvement is something Linn have already mentioned in a service paper (as a cure to a rare but possible hum problem, I believe) and that is to remove the 2-wire link (a black and red cable) that is connected at the rear of the amp, across the power inlet, between the right and the left main boards (on models 4100, 5100 and 6100) or input boards (on models 3200 and 4200). The purpose of this link is to bring all channels out of standby as soon as a signal arises on any channel. IF you use all channels for stereo, they will all wake up by themselves, so this link is not really needed. What it does that is not so good is to create an earth loop between the two boards, which decreases sound quality slightly. Remove it and all that happens is that the sound becomes a little more open and alive. If you run a home cinema system on that amp, you might have to live with the fact that each channel wakes up when it actually gets a signal.
The usual disclaimer applies: Don't open without knowing what you do and working at an anti-static workstation etc. But if you are installing the internal audio links between the inputs (those that replace the interconnects), you are already in there and can disconnect one end of that link at the same time. The internal audio links are directional, by the way, but they are not marked. To find out which direction is the best, you have to listen and compare... The amount of twist on them also matters, this is slightly more important than the direction in my opinion.
Another improvement that is a bit more costly is the speaker output cables I make out of K400, Knekt bananas and a special Japanese connector that is both crimped and soldered. This makes the output signal route much shorter and better sounding than the original. I haven't really talked about this as they are time consuming to make and what I need the most right now is more time to develop my projects...
Great you found that Tunebox, 9designs! Chances are that the cables in there might be of a good type. Check the text on them and pm me, there were many version of those looms but I think I have notes on them all.
I think the Chakra amps, both 100 and 200W, sound great. But with a little help they can gain those last few percent of performance, something that gives a rather strong impression when you hear it.
One free improvement is something Linn have already mentioned in a service paper (as a cure to a rare but possible hum problem, I believe) and that is to remove the 2-wire link (a black and red cable) that is connected at the rear of the amp, across the power inlet, between the right and the left main boards (on models 4100, 5100 and 6100) or input boards (on models 3200 and 4200). The purpose of this link is to bring all channels out of standby as soon as a signal arises on any channel. IF you use all channels for stereo, they will all wake up by themselves, so this link is not really needed. What it does that is not so good is to create an earth loop between the two boards, which decreases sound quality slightly. Remove it and all that happens is that the sound becomes a little more open and alive. If you run a home cinema system on that amp, you might have to live with the fact that each channel wakes up when it actually gets a signal.
The usual disclaimer applies: Don't open without knowing what you do and working at an anti-static workstation etc. But if you are installing the internal audio links between the inputs (those that replace the interconnects), you are already in there and can disconnect one end of that link at the same time. The internal audio links are directional, by the way, but they are not marked. To find out which direction is the best, you have to listen and compare... The amount of twist on them also matters, this is slightly more important than the direction in my opinion.
Another improvement that is a bit more costly is the speaker output cables I make out of K400, Knekt bananas and a special Japanese connector that is both crimped and soldered. This makes the output signal route much shorter and better sounding than the original. I haven't really talked about this as they are time consuming to make and what I need the most right now is more time to develop my projects...
Great you found that Tunebox, 9designs! Chances are that the cables in there might be of a good type. Check the text on them and pm me, there were many version of those looms but I think I have notes on them all.
Hi Lejonklou,
Did you manage getting your chakra aktv boards yoking inside LK100?
How did you power them ? did you make a voltage divider with addiding " resistors by card or did you power them with +-30 V or +- 40V that are available on the LK100 ?
I have chakra mono cards, new ones, but miss adapter board, so I have to power them with a piece of DIY wiring and soldering...
With many thanks for your help getting to it !!
Adalgrim
Did you manage getting your chakra aktv boards yoking inside LK100?
How did you power them ? did you make a voltage divider with addiding " resistors by card or did you power them with +-30 V or +- 40V that are available on the LK100 ?
I have chakra mono cards, new ones, but miss adapter board, so I have to power them with a piece of DIY wiring and soldering...
With many thanks for your help getting to it !!
Adalgrim
Hi adalgrim!
Sorry but it was seven years since I wrote about aktiv cards in this thread. And decades since I had an LK100. Today I'm into perfecting passive systems.
If you want to put Chakra cards into an LK100, you need to add regulation for sure. The easiest way is to get the mono adapters. Surely some retailer has a box of those? Linn used to supply them free of charge.
Sorry but it was seven years since I wrote about aktiv cards in this thread. And decades since I had an LK100. Today I'm into perfecting passive systems.
If you want to put Chakra cards into an LK100, you need to add regulation for sure. The easiest way is to get the mono adapters. Surely some retailer has a box of those? Linn used to supply them free of charge.
Hi,
I contacted linn dealers (only 2 in the south of France, Marseille and Bordeaux area)... so to say that they are more likely to sell new products than help people rising sound quality in their homes... very kind people, but they do not really care and help.
Anyway, I've found out what must be done, on the voltage: 13/15V seems ok and the chakra has 0.022/0.023 A of current consumption. I did those measurement by supplying 15V between ground and +Vcc.
This measns 2 voltage divider are necessary: one on the +Vcc side and the other one on -Vdd side.
I'm I right .... or may I be right ??
I contacted linn dealers (only 2 in the south of France, Marseille and Bordeaux area)... so to say that they are more likely to sell new products than help people rising sound quality in their homes... very kind people, but they do not really care and help.
Anyway, I've found out what must be done, on the voltage: 13/15V seems ok and the chakra has 0.022/0.023 A of current consumption. I did those measurement by supplying 15V between ground and +Vcc.
This measns 2 voltage divider are necessary: one on the +Vcc side and the other one on -Vdd side.
I'm I right .... or may I be right ??
ok, for non electronicians, there's a simple solution: a small power supply for chakra cards can be : +/-15V 1A AC/DC Regulator Power Dual Supply input 15-18V based on 7815 - 7915 regulators. (ex: http://www.ebay.fr/itm/301036463175?ssP ... 1439.l2649, or google "7815 7915 power" and choose images, you'll find some modules)
Modules are available on the market, simply replace capacitors if those are less than 50V on the input side.
With those modules, you can use your +/-40V or +/-30V power supply from the LK100 board to power the module. On the output side of the modul: gnd, +15V, -15V where you can power the chakra boards (GND, +Vcc, -Vdd).
Signal in and signal out from your chakra board the diectly goes on the LK100 board according to LINN procedure (depending on the serial number <>3000 of your LK).
Cheers
Modules are available on the market, simply replace capacitors if those are less than 50V on the input side.
With those modules, you can use your +/-40V or +/-30V power supply from the LK100 board to power the module. On the output side of the modul: gnd, +15V, -15V where you can power the chakra boards (GND, +Vcc, -Vdd).
Signal in and signal out from your chakra board the diectly goes on the LK100 board according to LINN procedure (depending on the serial number <>3000 of your LK).
Cheers