The Linnofil Super NAS!

Hardware and software, modifications and DIY

Moderator: Staff

Linnofil
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 343
Joined: 2007-02-05 22:22
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden

Post by Linnofil »

cortina wrote:I realize that this question is a difficult one
...
It would be good to get an indication of which part has the biggest influence
It really is a sum of all parts. The more optimized it gets, the more difference can be heard from the small components. In a finished LS-NAS it is easy to hear the difference between the best and the second best SATA cable. Swap out the PSU to a bad one and almost no differences can be heard for any changes. Swapping the second best PSU with the Seasonic is a small difference. But get it wrong and all is ruined. The same can be said about the 320 SSD's. They are the best I have tested. But at the same time a ES.2 drive in a LS-NAS is vastly superior to any standard NAS.

I would say that the main parts is the MB. If you can't get a new one, try to get a used one from eBay or any other similar source.
Tractor Boy
Member
Member
Posts: 30
Joined: 2011-02-25 20:31
Location: Sweden

Post by Tractor Boy »

Linnofil wrote:
Tractor Boy wrote:a few retailers have both versions listed, and the "K" version is about twice the price of the non-k version
That's like buying cheap pasta when trying to cook a great meal. It's the wrong place to go cheap, because it doesn't really effect the total price and may ruin it all.
ThomasOK wrote:I'd stick with the faster rated cables.
That's what I would do...

The main reason is that all LS-NAS owners benefit from having the same spec. Then we can trust that others findings about performance also applies to our LS-NAS. A good idea is to buy one of the other cables (it's cheap!), test and report the results!
You're absolutely right that this is the wrong place to go cheap, but as you well know, more expensive is not the same as better especially in this area. The specs on the two cables are identical, ie they're both Gb/s, and after futher invesitgation it seems like the only difference is the packaging, with the "k" version more of a retail package and the "non-K" kind of a bulk. When looking at Deltacos home page they have different pages for the K and non-K versions but the attached PDF with futher information about the cables are identical.

But if you say that the K version is the way to go I believe you. Maybe you should update the first post?
Hindsight is always 20/20
cortina
Active Member
Active Member
Posts: 90
Joined: 2011-09-05 05:13

Post by cortina »

Linnofil wrote: It really is a sum of all parts. The more optimized it gets, the more difference can be heard from the small components.
...
I would say that the main parts is the MB. If you can't get a new one, try to get a used one from eBay or any other similar source.
Thanks Linnofil, clear enough.
Linnofil
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 343
Joined: 2007-02-05 22:22
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden

Post by Linnofil »

Tractor Boy wrote:as you well know, more expensive is not the same as better especially in this area.
That is very true!
Tractor Boy wrote:But if you say that the K version is the way to go I believe you. Maybe you should update the first post?
I looked at my source for this cable
( http://www.inet.se/produkt/8906189/seri ... 6gb-s-0-3m ) and they now state the K version. When I bought my last cables (for a LS-NAS builder on this forum) I got them in a small plastic bag with a Deltaco sticker on it. Hardly what I call a "retail" packaging! All my cables have been bought in this packaging from this retailer and has performed very similar. (Tested all of them for direction before shipping.)
Azazello
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 630
Joined: 2007-01-30 21:59
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

Post by Azazello »

I managed to pick up a new 160 GB Intel 320 at a good price from ebay today, since I already have the motherboard, I'm one step closer...
Tractor Boy
Member
Member
Posts: 30
Joined: 2011-02-25 20:31
Location: Sweden

Post by Tractor Boy »

Tractor Boy wrote:Have anyone else tested the 730 series already?
Now I have, and I'm sad to say that the 730 is not as good as the 320. The difference is there but not as big as Linnofil describes the difference to many other SSDs to my ears, but then again there's a difference and I seldom exaggerate things like this.

So I had to order two more 320 series 600 Gb SSDs, let's just hope those are as good as my first.
Hindsight is always 20/20
Lemmy
Member
Member
Posts: 33
Joined: 2009-05-18 18:50

Post by Lemmy »

So you have built the LSNAS now Tractor Boy?
What are your impressions?
Tractor Boy
Member
Member
Posts: 30
Joined: 2011-02-25 20:31
Location: Sweden

Post by Tractor Boy »

Lemmy wrote:So you have built the LSNAS now Tractor Boy?
What are your impressions?
Yes, I have. But I don't have another server running since the OS drive from my old music server/htpc, an Intel X-25 now serves as OS drive in the LSNAS.

Soon the 730 will be installed in the htpc and then I can make a compairson
Hindsight is always 20/20
User avatar
Linncredible
Active Member
Active Member
Posts: 70
Joined: 2008-01-12 14:01
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

Post by Linncredible »

Hi all!

I’m now in the start up phase of the project of building myself my very own LS-NAS! Lots of fun and high expectations when it comes to performance! I have bought almost all of the components but some of the components are, as you know, by now discontinued. However some thorough searching on the internet has given results. The motherboard is a bit of a gamble, it is the recommended one, but used and bought on eBay, I hope this will turn out to work fine. A few other components (the recommended RAM and one Intel 320 SSD 600 GB) has also been bought on eBay – though unused and in unopened original packaging. The other components (recommended internal cables, OS drive and cooling fan) is still available and has been bought new. By now I really have three remaining components left to acquire:

1. NAS Case: I’m thinking seriously about getting the suggested Cooler Master Elite case. The only thing holding me back a little bit at the moment is the fact that I plan to have the NAS quite near the main system in the living room and, to be honest, I would like the NAS case to have as high WAF as possible. This is perhaps a bit extra important since I’m thinking about getting a Yggdrasil rack for NAS, switch etc and the only option seems to be to place the NAS on the top shelf, which means that the NAS will be quite visible in the living room! Well, well, this is however, when looking at the big picture, not a big problem. It is quite probable that I after all, finally will buy the suggested case. But if someone has any other suggestion I’ll be happy to hear! :)

2. My biggest remaining question though concerns the Power supply. I’m frankly not certain that it is the recommended model I’m about to purchase. The name of the product seems to vary a bit and I have had a little bit of a problem identifying the right type of unit. It’s also confusing, as has been up for discussion earlier in this thread, with the platinum and the gold version and identifying the platinum one. These are some pages I have been looking at: http://shop.compless.com/?p=utforska&artid=66984 and http://www.128bit.se/article.php?id=307613. (Sorry for the Swedish links!!). Or maybe I should buy from http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6817151099 (as linked in Linnofils very first post in this thread), but I’m not sure newegg ships to Sweden where I live (some info on their web suggests the opposite). Any advice? (Sorry if I have missed any information about this in the thread!)

3. Power cable: I think I still have a Lejonklou Power One 1 m that’s lying around unused. I guess this ought to work fine, any comments?

So that’s it for now. Hoping for some hints from the experienced LSNAS-builders here on the forum and hoping to be able to start the next phase – assembly – soon!! :)
pleddyboy
Member
Member
Posts: 22
Joined: 2013-10-01 13:59
Location: Norway

Post by pleddyboy »

Hi.
Personally I used this housing for my LS-NAS <<http://www.lian-li.com/en/dt_portfolio/pc-c37/>>
Look like a Hifi unit, for proper mounting of 2,5"SSD I used something like this <<http://www.amazon.com/Silverstone-Tek-3 ... B002BH3Z8E>>
If you plan to use lots of SSD´s you may need som bigger, but for my 2 SSD´s it´s perfect, inclouding a cd-rom
Best of luck, and enjoy your building project.
cheers
Last edited by pleddyboy on 2014-08-27 22:03, edited 1 time in total.
KRDS/1, Tundra Stereo, M109 with stands, Silver RCA, K400 and Linn skeets, LS-nas
User avatar
DelNaja
Active Member
Active Member
Posts: 93
Joined: 2011-12-30 11:22
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden

Post by DelNaja »

Nice to hear that you're embarking on your LS-NAS voyage, Linncredible! :-) Please, do keep us posted on your progress.
User avatar
Linncredible
Active Member
Active Member
Posts: 70
Joined: 2008-01-12 14:01
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

Post by Linncredible »

DelNaja wrote:Nice to hear that you're embarking on your LS-NAS voyage, Linncredible! :-) Please, do keep us posted on your progress.
Thank you DelNaja! It feels good to finally get started with this! I know you’re thinking about going for the LSNAS to, hope you come to a conclusion soon (and start to build! ;-) ).

When it comes to the case, thank you pleddyboy for your suggestion for the Lian Li PC-C37 chassi! The thing that however makes me not choose this is the lack of disk space. I have already one OS-disk (the suggested Samsung SSD) and one Intel 320 SSD 600 GB. I also have 2 Seagate Constellation ES.2 2 TB, today spinning in a Readynas DUO, that I plan to move to the LSNAS (or at least one of them depending on if it affects performance having 2 HDD:s in the NAS). I also plan getting one more Intel 320 SSD 600 GB. So the number of hard drive bays in the Lian Li chassi are to few I’m afraid. But I agree with you, it looks nice!

The Streacom chassis have been up for discussion earlier in the thread but it has been judged that these chassis are not possible to use for the LSNAS (se earlier posts in this thread). Especially the FC10 looks very nice, stable and also with some WAF I think and it has place for a number of disks (3 x 2.5″ + 2 x 3.5″). But as I said, the FC9-10 have been concluded not being suitable for the LSNAS earlier in this thread so of course they are nothing for me.

Based on this I have now decided to go for the Cooler Master Elite 120 Advanced suggested in Linnofils first post. It’s not very expensive and I guess I can always, at a later time, change this case to another case if something interesting comes up! One remaining issue concerning the case however is the problem described by David Neel in an earlier post, see http://www.lejonklou.com/forum/viewtopi ... 6978#16978, where you, David, write: “that the Fractal design side fan recommended will not fit. It's 25mm thick, and the coolermaster fan is only (at a guess) 15mm.” David, have you (or any one else for that matter) come up with any kind of solution for this problem? If not, my own conclusion based on what has been written in this thread so far, is that the recommended fan should be used to get the expected performance level. But how should it be mounted in the case if it does not really fit?!? (I guess it will also be necessary from a cooling point of view with a fan if I have one or two ES.2’s in the case?) When I get the case in my hands I might understand this a little bit better, but if you have any input, please post.

When it comes to PSU, I now think I’ve got it right and this is what I have bought: http://r.ebay.com/bTXqYX.

Regarding the power cable I have now acquired a Linn Longwell in line with was has been suggested earlier in the thread.

The stuff I have ordered has now also begun to arrive, among the things is the motherboard. As I said in my earlier post it’s a bit of a gamble having bought it used on eBay, I must say I’m not perfectly comfortable with the way it arrived (when it comes to static electricity protection etc) in an old shoe box, see pic. below , but I still hope for the best…

Image

So what remain now before building can start? (Apart from the rest of the things to arrive that is.) Well, Music Lover is perfectly right recommending an antistat mat, will get one. Also thinking ‘bout getting a torque screwdriver, to capitalize on the findings of ThomasOK on how to mount the MB, and maybe, if time allows, be able to experiment.
Last edited by Linncredible on 2014-08-30 21:40, edited 1 time in total.
David Neel
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 975
Joined: 2008-02-08 23:17
Location: The Magical Forest

Post by David Neel »

Linncredible,

I've not yet solved the fan issue. I didn't find another fan to fit. As I understand it, just connecting the recommended fan as specified helps the motherboard perform optimally. Currently I've got the coolermaster supplied fan installed but disconnected and it seems that temperatures do not get too high. It is quite noisy if running, so wouldn't suit you in the listening room. Maybe I should try connecting the recommended silent fan, and leaving it outside the case?

Unfortunately, I've not been able to compare my LSNAS with any other NAS, as it has twice refused to be found on my dealer's network. I'm 90% vinyl, so this hasn't reached the top of the to-do list yet.

As I've just finished a 4-year work project, and not got the next job lined up yet, maybe it's time to get back to the LSNAS....
pleddyboy
Member
Member
Posts: 22
Joined: 2013-10-01 13:59
Location: Norway

Remote LS-NAS

Post by pleddyboy »

I have not seen explained any solution of how people control(maintenance) their LS-NAS, probably most people have an monitor and a keyboard connected to the LS-NAS. But if you are like me and dont have the place needed for the monitor next to the HIFI rack, there is a software solution. I simply install TeamViewer on my LS-NAS and remote pc/device, then I can remote control everything from my laptop or IOS/Android device. There are probably other programs doing the same thing, but TeamViewer work perfect in my system for doing Windows update or update virus program, or copying new FLAC files to the specified folder on my LS-NAS. No need for any monitor or keyboard or mouse any more. Maybe other have figured out other solutions? Would be nice to know how you do it.
cheers Pål :-)
KRDS/1, Tundra Stereo, M109 with stands, Silver RCA, K400 and Linn skeets, LS-nas
David Neel
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 975
Joined: 2008-02-08 23:17
Location: The Magical Forest

Post by David Neel »

Teamviewer sounds like a good solution. I have a 15m hdmi cable going to a TV in another room, and wireless keyboard - so I have to coil the cable and put it away each time.
flojo
Member
Member
Posts: 31
Joined: 2007-02-01 18:34
Location: Netherlands

Post by flojo »

I'm using MS RD Client accessing both my LSNASses, but I'm running W7 Ultimate stripped down on both machines. I installed the Ultimate version as I didn't find out any audible difference between the stripped down Ultimate and the recommended W7 Home premium install from the forum.

Cheers,

Florens
Lemmy
Member
Member
Posts: 33
Joined: 2009-05-18 18:50

Post by Lemmy »

flojo wrote:I'm using MS RD Client accessing both my LSNASses, but I'm running W7 Ultimate stripped down on both machines.
In what way did you strip the OS down? Just curious since I'll probably use W7 Ultimate as well.
christian
Active member
Active member
Posts: 103
Joined: 2009-02-22 10:21
Location: Sweden

Post by christian »

Hi
I suggest LS NAS owners to try the Linn Kazoo Server. I have tried this for a couple of days and feel that it is an improvement sound wise compared to Asset which I used before. It can also be controlled remote by Linn Konfig which is good when you want to do a rescan.
Kind regards
Christian
flojo
Member
Member
Posts: 31
Joined: 2007-02-01 18:34
Location: Netherlands

Post by flojo »

In what way did you strip the OS down? Just curious since I'll probably use W7 Ultimate as well.
Next to disabling all unneeded W7 services and W7 tools (100+ in my case), I did the following:

Disabled System Restore
Disabled drive indexing
Disabled the page file
Disabled Hibernation
Disabled prefetching in the registry
Disabled Windows' write caching
Disabled the SuperFetch and Windows Search services
Disabled ClearPageFileAtShutdown and LargeSystemCache
Adjusted power settings

Timeout To Kill Service Or App to minimum:
1. HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control
2. HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Control Panel\Desktop

Only achieved this trying to disable a feature/service/tool etc. and testing if the system kept on working.

Cheers,

Florens
Lemmy
Member
Member
Posts: 33
Joined: 2009-05-18 18:50

Post by Lemmy »

OK, thanks for the info.
christian
Active member
Active member
Posts: 103
Joined: 2009-02-22 10:21
Location: Sweden

Post by christian »

christian wrote:Hi
I suggest LS NAS owners to try the Linn Kazoo Server. I have tried this for a couple of days and feel that it is an improvement sound wise compared to Asset which I used before.
Not so sure about this anymore. It seems there are other software factors that might have changed during the installation of Kazoo that might have given these results. I will investigate further and report back.
Kind regards
Christian
User avatar
Music Lover
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 1673
Joined: 2007-01-31 20:35
Location: In front of Lejonklou/JBL/Ofil

Post by Music Lover »

christian wrote:
christian wrote:Hi
I suggest LS NAS owners to try the Linn Kazoo Server. I have tried this for a couple of days and feel that it is an improvement sound wise compared to Asset which I used before.
Not so sure about this anymore. It seems there are other software factors that might have changed during the installation of Kazoo that might have given these results. I will investigate further and report back.
Looking forward to get your update on this!
It's all about musical understanding!
christian
Active member
Active member
Posts: 103
Joined: 2009-02-22 10:21
Location: Sweden

Post by christian »

Hi all!

Well I have been experimenting with various setting in the LS NAS for some time now. It would be nice if someone else could confirm my findings.

First of all there is a setting in the Bios of the motherboard that affects the performance of the disks. You find it under advanced configuration an SATA. The setting can be AHCI or IDE. Normally you would set this to AHCI if you are using SSD because the disk performance is so much better. For instance I think it took me about ¼ of the time when I was installing windows 7 from scratch compared to the IDE setting. The whole computer becomes faster and you can also notice this when accessing the media server. Trouble is that it sounds worse with AHCI than with IDE. At first I thought AHCI was better because the SOUND gets better, more details but in the end not so much fun to listen to. Beware that in my case I had to completely reinstall Windows when I went from the different settings because otherwise windows hangs completely and I don´t have the knowledge to solve this in another way than to reinstall.

Then there are a few other settings that I have found affect the music:

Swap file: Better with swap file than without.

.Net: Better if you uninstall Microsoft .Net.

RDC (Remote Differential Compression): Better with this installed.

Bluetoth Support: Better off

Wifi: Better off

I am sure that there are lots of other settings that also affect.

Performance is also better if I unplug the monitor, keyboard and mouse.

I saw that there was a version of Asset media server for Debian Linux so today I installed Linux and that version of asset. I am not sure yet if this is better than Windows but It is not unlikely. Right now it plays really good so it feels promising. I am not anxious to get back to windows right now.
Kind regards
Christian
User avatar
ThomasOK
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 4358
Joined: 2007-02-02 18:41
Location: United States
Contact:

Post by ThomasOK »

Thanks for the report, definitely some interesting findings. I'll have to try them when I have a chance. I can confirm that the LS-NAS is more musical with the mouse (USB), keyboard (keyboard port) and monitor (DVI or HDMI port) are unplugged. It has been a while since I played with it but if I remember correctly the monitor made less difference than the input devices.
David Neel
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 975
Joined: 2008-02-08 23:17
Location: The Magical Forest

More experiments...

Post by David Neel »

Really been meaning to sort out my LSNAS and optimise it, but time just vanishes and I've done nothing since the coolermaster case. So:

I've just ordered the recommended Kingston memory to replace my A-data.

I will order additional 320 SSDs so that I have some room to expand my modest collection (most is on vinyl).

I'm also going to try Kazoo Server - ThomasOK thought Songbox was better then Asset, and Christian has not yet reported back, so I'll try it myself.

Then I will need to sort out my ripping. I'm still using dbpoweramp, as I find EAC a total pain. But that's for later.
Last edited by David Neel on 2014-09-28 14:06, edited 1 time in total.
Post Reply