The Linnofil Super NAS!

Hardware and software, modifications and DIY

Moderator: Staff

Linnofil
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 343
Joined: 2007-02-05 22:22
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden

Post by Linnofil » 2013-03-03 20:31

paolo wrote:Just up and running with my new LSNAS!
Great news!
paolo wrote:At the moment it's still in a very sub-optimal HW configuration: Fractal Array R2 case's PS, A-Data RAM, Kingston SV300 60GB SSD (both for OS and for test music), but it's already CLEARLY better than my optimized Readynas NV+! Clearly more flowing and melodic, much easier to follow instruments and voices, more fun and lively. NV+ sounds a bit hard and congested, quite mechanical in comparison. Musically a big improvement.
Wonderful! Since you have been thinking about this for a long time now it's really great that you finally have it up and running! Isn't it amazing that the results are so good despite a very suboptimal SSD? I also think that Nicolav burning in the PSU for you helped a bit. New RAM will also help.

paolo wrote:I am VERY HAPPY with these very first results, my inconditionate thanks to Linnofil, Music Lover and to all other guys who have put their effort in developing this great machine!!!
Thank you Paolo, you are very welcome! I'm very happy for you. Welcome to the musical world of the LSNAS! :-)
paolo wrote:Back working on it and install a Seagate ES.2 HDD, ciao!
Let us know how it goes. It can only get better from now on! Any Intel 320 SSD on order?

Linnofil
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 343
Joined: 2007-02-05 22:22
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden

Post by Linnofil » 2013-03-03 21:06

ThomasOK wrote:Just thought I'd drop a note that it appears the Asus E45M1-M PRO mATX motherboard might be discontinued as well. While it is currently still available from a number of places in the US, the newegg link on page one says it is discontinued. Furthermore if you search newegg for E45M1 it will only take you to the E35M1 as they have deactivated the pages for both E45M1 variants.
Thanks for the warning Thomas, time for shopping for you DS owners!
ThomasOK wrote:For anyone in the US interested there is currently a new Asus E45M1-I Deluxe on eBay with a buy it now price of $210 and free shipping. It says they only ship to the US so I don't know if they'll ship elsewhere if asked. Here's the link:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ASUS-E45M1-I-DE ... 2a298940e4
Great tip, did anyone here buy one?
ThomasOK wrote:By the way, I noticed a couple of the reviews for the Asus E45M1-I Deluxe stated that it couldn't run with Windoze 8 and there would be no upgrade from Asus to allow it to do so. I know that isn't relevant to the LSNAS but it makes me wonder if that isn't part of the reason for discontinuing the boards?
That looks like a good reason to discontinue it. To bad for us! I hope the new motherboards are good to.
ThomasOK wrote:Another note. The newegg links for the Intel 320 600GB SSD have all been deactivated and they are out of stock for the 300GB versions. A quick check on Google shopping shows that J&R, a big reseller I have dealt with before, has also pulled the pages for the 600GB and 300GB versions although they have the smaller ones in stock (as does newegg). It appears that about half the dealers listed in Google shopping don't have stock of the 600GB. Amazon themselves is also out of stock but still shows some sub-vendors with stock though most are pricey. So these are starting to get thin on the ground as well.
I'll se if I can update the specification with new links for the SSD's. But I strongly suggest placing an order for these SSD's for anyone who have a DS and want the most from it. (And building a LSNAS.)
ThomasOK wrote:(Bet you can't guess how I've been spending my Monday morning! ;-)
How about spending some money instead of just time? :-) Spending time helps us, spending money helps you!

ThomasOK
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 2800
Joined: 2007-02-02 18:41
Location: United States
Contact:

Post by ThomasOK » 2013-03-04 00:36

Linnofil wrote:
ThomasOK wrote:(Bet you can't guess how I've been spending my Monday morning! ;-)
How about spending some money instead of just time? :-) Spending time helps us, spending money helps you!
At this point, since I don't own a DS, spending money would tend to help my store and possibly the forum members (through additional research in a 120 Volt country) more than it would help me personally. But I undertand and appreciate the thought, and am sorry I am not contributing directly through my building experiences. Right now I have to say it is in the planning stage (although I did put an offer in on two Intel 320 600GB SSDs on Friday - it was not responded to and the auction ended).

WIth the status of the E45M1 boards not looking good and the seeming limitations of almost every case design, I have been reticent to jump in (not to mention having to decide where to put the money as I really need to get some Tundra Monos in here, not to mention a Klyvia). Since Klaus has some interesting ability to get the new boards before the dealers in the US even seem to know they exist, and since his preliminary findings on the E2KM1I-deluxe seem to be good, it is likely I will wait at least a little longer to jump into the fray. I am hoping we will know soon how the new board stacks up and really hoping it is an improvement.

But, as is obvious, I am keeping an eye on things (I was even investigating the idea of modifying that nicely built Streacom FC10 case to fit the proper power supply internally but it appears it isn't tall enough even if you did machine a hole in the back panel to fit it). Hopefully before too long I will be able to be one of the first in the US building and testing an LSNAS unit. I don't intend to bypass the opportunity you have so graciously given us.

k_numigl
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 345
Joined: 2008-01-30 12:23
Location: Friesland

Post by k_numigl » 2013-03-05 08:59

The E2K makes promising progess. At the moment, the little beast is very sensitive to stress/strain on the MoBo, with sound tending to congested vs. natural, free, and lively. As the sole E2K user I report this here only, because I can imagine that the problems with E45-s not sounding convincing might stem from the same reason.

It was only after I 1) readjusted the heat sink mounting screws, 2) loosened the MoBo mounting screws a bit, 3) positioned the case so the MoBo is upside down, 4) loosened the 6 case screws of my case top plate (LianLi's side panel), that the ensemble played at its present optimum. The fan is the next thing to care about.

(to 1): The heat sink screws are fitted with small springs. At my board, some were completely compressed, others not. My actual setup is to tighten them until they are completely compressed and then loosen 1/4 turn. This allows the springs to act as apparently intended.
to 4): each of the 6 screws holding the case panel made a difference.)

In the light of this, the case is definitely not solid enough. The entire case twists with the support, the position and mounting of the heavy PSU, etc.. I therefore intend to replace the case panel the MoBo is mounted on by a solid, better quality aluminium plate (I feel at home with this, in contrast to Windows-tweaking :) ). This is easy with the LianLi case, as the side panel is simply laying on the main structure and is secured with 6x M3 screws.

I expect/fear that other MoBos are also sensitive to similar parameters, what renders any comparison really difficult. In principle, one would need to individually optimize each ensemble before comparing them. I think even a replacement of a memory card can alter the mechanics, as you have to apply quite some force to the MoBo.

@Nicolav: did you check upside down?

Nicolav
Active member
Active member
Posts: 172
Joined: 2008-04-07 22:46
Location: Italy - Rome

Post by Nicolav » 2013-03-06 22:51

k_numigl wrote:@Nicolav: did you check upside down?
Yes, checked just now.
On the other side of case there are no feet so I used four Linn skeet.
As said a few posts ago, the condition of the test is not quite ideal since the other side the feet are of rubber.
That said, upside downside sound more detailed and apparently fast, maybe with more drive. However I prefer the other side of case the music have a more natural flow and and the instruments are much more coordinated with each other.
At the end I'm convinced that the differences depend more on the material of the feet that the overthrow of the case, so the test should be redone with the same foot.
LP12/RadikalM/Keel/Ekos SE1/Adikt/Gaio/Klimax System Hub/2 Klimax Exaktbox/2 A4200/1 A2200/A242/2

k_numigl
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 345
Joined: 2008-01-30 12:23
Location: Friesland

Post by k_numigl » 2013-03-07 09:12

Thanks, Nicolav!

I think at this moment it is only important to learn that there is a difference, and mechanics do matter. It is another thing to optimize them. (I agree that metal feet might not be exactly the best. I always start with pieces of medium hard wood.)

This morning, I finished the drawing and ordered a 4mm better quality aluminium plate (AlMg4.5Mn) which fits the Q08 case and holds the mainboard. That's quite solid stuff which should result in a basic stability of the mechanical setup.

Nicolav
Active member
Active member
Posts: 172
Joined: 2008-04-07 22:46
Location: Italy - Rome

Post by Nicolav » 2013-03-11 23:59

I want to share with you a cd ripping experience with LSNAS.
The results are very interesting, although a little smaller than I expected.
I used two recorders that I own: a NEC-Optiarc 7200SA and a Plextor 820SA. Both are internal but I have them connected by running outside the case the power cable and data. Therefore, also due to the lack of length of the cables, the readers have been put on the floor.
So I compared a couple of ripping done some time ago with the NEC connected to a standard PC with those made with LSNAS.
With ripping made ​​LSNAS the most important thing you notice is some musical passages that previously appeared remained in the background, now become more clear and explicit. So the musical message becomes overall more vibrant and colorful.
In addition, the best reproduction of higher frequencies give a touch of freshness and greater agility to the sound.

A few brief note on EAC. The version used is the 1.0 beta 3. In drive settings I tried accurate stream checked and unchecked. Unchecked gave the best results. The rest of the settings i got them from this guide http://filesharingtalk.com/threads/4352 ... -%28EAC%29
The settings of version 1.0 differ slightly from those in version 0.99 that there is this excellent guide http://blowfish.be/eac/Setup/setup1.html

PS: Today I returned the Seasonic borrowed from Paolo and refitted my Corsair.
A good slice of music is gone. Not that the Corsair goes wrong, is that the Seasonic is great! The interesting thing is that now the difference between the ripping made with PC and ​those with LSNAS is much less evident.
LP12/RadikalM/Keel/Ekos SE1/Adikt/Gaio/Klimax System Hub/2 Klimax Exaktbox/2 A4200/1 A2200/A242/2

paolo
Active member
Active member
Posts: 124
Joined: 2007-01-31 12:49
Location: Rome, Italy

Post by paolo » 2013-03-13 16:04

Hi all, time for some updates. My LSNas has been up and running since several days now and I've some interesting findings to share.

First one. At the beginning I was very positive, then as days passed I realized something was not sounding right anymore. I initially though it was just burn-in of the MB (all other items should be already run in: PS was from used Fractal Array R2 case, RAM had been used by Nicolav). But performance was really not satisfying, at that moment clearly less good than the Readynas NV+, mainly due to a lack of coherency and integration in the bass and a distracting light/metallic overall caracter. I finally had a check inside the NAS and found that the MB screws had become quite loose (I initially used 4 screws with integrated anti-unscrew washers like the ones Linn uses inside their products). Consequently screws have been changed with standard MB sceews (without any washers) and firmly tightened (I didn't use any torque screwdriver but I guess they are around 0.4 Nm now). Result: BIG difference, bass has become MUCH better, more integrated, and time coherent, and the ringing/metallic character on mid-highs has very much mitigated. Overall much more tuneful performance than before.

Second one, RAM test. I've started with the "standard" ADATA Gaming Series DDR3 1600Mhz, only 4 GB. Then Nicolav lent me one Kingston 4 GB DDR3 PC10600 1333MHz he had been using in a PC. Surprising result: worse performance than the A-Data RAM, despite opposite results with same RAM model from Nicolav and Music Lover. Less integrated, less exact, slow and uncohesive.
Next step was returning this Kingstone RAM to Nicolav and borrowing from him another one of exactly the same type, to have a cross check. This time the Kingstone RAM was clearly BETTER than the A-Data. Nicolav confirmed that the former Kingstone RAM performed unsatisfactorily also on his NAS.

Last test has been to try Nicolav's Intel 320 SSD. Four notes have been enough to have things clear, it was clearly worse than the Constellation ES.2 HDD.

Summing up:
1) if anyone is dubious about the performance of the LSNAS I strongly suggest checking the MB screws are correctly tightened. This has an important impact on musicality.
2) Same models of RAMs or SSDs can sound substantially different. It's not clear to me if it's just a matter of variability or it's any sort of damage (which doesn't seem to have influence on the proper functioning of the memory/SSD anyway) but that's a fact we have to take into consideration and possibly further investigate.

Now I'm looking forward to install the Seasonic PS returned by Nicola, and compare with the PS included in the Fractal Array R2 case I've been using until now. Anybody has experience on how to adapt the Seasonic to the R2 case (quite deep infact and interfering with the aluminium support for the HDDs)?

Paolo

k_numigl
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 345
Joined: 2008-01-30 12:23
Location: Friesland

Post by k_numigl » 2013-03-14 12:26

Thanks for your reports, Paolo and Nicolav! In the light of the mechanics' importance, it is perhaps a good idea to stick to the solid Streacom cases. Regarding the softness of the alu construction and the adverse shape of the MoBo mounting bolts in the LianLi, I would advise to keep clear of that.

Your RAM experience sounds like a lottery. Here in Germany, we collected a couple of 4GB RAM pairs - we'll see what comes out of this, after the mechanics are put on a solid basis.

Personally, I'm back at running a E45 in the moment. How well everything fits together, seems to me kind of a synergy effect, including the HDD/SSD. I had environments where the I320 sounded really lazy, but in the moment it is very nice (with the E45). Detailed, lively, natural.

Can you specify whether you changed any standard BIOS setting? (Mine runs at CPU-Q enabled, standard profile, now. Did the Swedish all disable CPU-Q fan control?)

User avatar
Music Lover
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 1667
Joined: 2007-01-31 20:35
Location: In front of Lejonklou/JBL/Ofil

Post by Music Lover » 2013-03-14 13:15

k_numigl wrote: In the light of the mechanics' importance, it is perhaps a good idea to stick to the solid Streacom cases. Regarding the softness of the alu construction and the adverse shape of the MoBo mounting bolts in the LianLi, I would advise to keep clear of that.
Please be careful, stiffer is not always better.

Inconclusive test results are interesting, it's obviously something we yet have to discover.
It's all about musical understanding!

David Neel
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 654
Joined: 2008-02-08 23:17
Location: In the groove

Frustration!

Post by David Neel » 2013-03-16 19:09

I took my LSNAS to my Linn dealer today, with the intention of comparing it to a standard NAS. Unfortunately, we couldn't get it to work. It was working fine when I left home, and is working fine again now it's back at home.

We connected it up to the dealer's network and TV - we were able to see that Asset was running, and we connected to the dealer's network so that the LSNAS could see the rest of the network. But the rest of the network could not see the LSNAS. It would not show up on any control point, despite Asset running and LSNAS able to see all other network devices. Then we connected it to a mini-network with Ethernet cable direct into the router - still no visibility of the LSNAS on any control point. At that point we gave up and talked about the Akiva replacement!

Can anybody suggest why this happened? And what I need to do to fix it?

k_numigl
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 345
Joined: 2008-01-30 12:23
Location: Friesland

step forward

Post by k_numigl » 2013-03-23 09:46

Not much to say, pictures tell it all. A definite improvement. The aspects of congestion and lazyness disappeared. It is running 1 day only, so more detailed listening will follow.

Image

Image

Image

Image

My personal conclusions are that standard PC cases are not well suited for music. Comparisons between PC systems and parts seem to be difficult, as the mechanical set up determines so much of the performance (whether I understand the reason or not). If an advice is allowed, I recommend to push in all connectors while the MoBo is not mounted, so it is possible to apply the needed counterforce at the location of the connector on the backside of the MoBo (not bending it).

The shown plate is the first attempt to have a solid one. Recess of the screw heads and perhaps black anodizing may follow.

Nicolav
Active member
Active member
Posts: 172
Joined: 2008-04-07 22:46
Location: Italy - Rome

Re: step forward

Post by Nicolav » 2013-03-29 11:18

k_numigl wrote:Not much to say, pictures tell it all. A definite improvement. The aspects of congestion and lazyness disappeared. It is running 1 day only, so more detailed listening will follow.

My personal conclusions are that standard PC cases are not well suited for music. Comparisons between PC systems and parts seem to be difficult, as the mechanical set up determines so much of the performance (whether I understand the reason or not). If an advice is allowed, I recommend to push in all connectors while the MoBo is not mounted, so it is possible to apply the needed counterforce at the location of the connector on the backside of the MoBo (not bending it).

The shown plate is the first attempt to have a solid one. Recess of the screw heads and perhaps black anodizing may follow.
Great work Klaus!
I am glad that you have found an improvement by changing the lower and bottom panel.
Please keep us updated after a deeper and long term listen.
I too believe that the improvement of the mechanical part of the nas can provide some benefits in terms of musicality. Tests carried out by tightening the screws on the chassis of my 'NV + confirm that broadly a greater rigidity are beneficial. However, it should always be confirmed by listening with tune dem, because there are no recipes that work a priori.
LP12/RadikalM/Keel/Ekos SE1/Adikt/Gaio/Klimax System Hub/2 Klimax Exaktbox/2 A4200/1 A2200/A242/2

k_numigl
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 345
Joined: 2008-01-30 12:23
Location: Friesland

Post by k_numigl » 2013-03-31 14:37

Today I end this project. It has sufficiently gained in quality to
finish work on it. Thanks in particular to Linnofil to have pointed
out the importance of this digital stuff - by my own I had never thought
to care about it! - and the PC world is that large, that without a
decent compass I just would have felt lost.

Recent activities included a E2K trial:

Image

Image

using a 8 GB Kingston RAM (HyperX KHX16C10B1B/8), mounted in the blue
slot. I was about to leave the E2K alone, as I could not bring it to
a consistent performance witht he LianLi case. But as I had more than
one 4mm alu plate made, I eventually felt, why not give it a try. Overall,
I can't make out a significant difference between the E2K and the E45
performance, when mounted in this way.

The main result, beyond those stated by Linnofil, is in my view
the surprisingly large effect of mechanics (mainboard). Many times
I felt the Intel320 sounded laid back, lazy, short of energy, etc..
It seems as if this is completely cured when the MoBo has the right
mechanical set up. To me it seems a bit funny to cure something
which was attributed to the SSD with the MoBo setting, but this is
simply the experience.

At present (E45 running, 8GB RAM as mentioned mounted, not in QVL),
the music is both detailed, fine, while engergetic and natural. The
tune(s) can be followed with ease, this is evident in particular
with multi voiced Jazz and Classic, but even Depeche's Hole to feed
sounds fine. Hank Jones's Compassion album - lively and nicely
interacting players; Mahler's sym. 3 (Levine - that's the record to
chose if interested in the piece) refined, well structured, powerful.
You may know from previous posts that equipment that is not capable
to reproduce Monk and Bach with fun is discarded here quickly.

I decided to use the E45 at the moment, because the CPU fan on the
E2K is less accessible (the small connector below the heat sink
in the first pic, visible behind the USB connector) and has an
unusual format. It is not possible to use an other fan than the
one that comes with the board/heat sink without additional effort.
I'm too lazy for that, as the other board plays well together with
the LianLi case fan (connected to CPU fan conn.).

In review, the main mechanic ingredients seem to me
- solid plate for the MoBo - without this, results have not been
repeatable here (no wonder when considering the effect of
MoBo bending, see below)
- check of the heat sink mounting screws (shutting the springs dead,
then turn back a bit to allow the springs to work)
- avoidance of any bend in the MoBo. This means at my set up that
I fasten the two screws on the RAM-side well, but the two at the
connection panel side only just so. At this side, my MoBos bend
very easily when I turn the screws further in.
- and finally, both MoBos play here best when positioned
horizontally, but upside down. Vertical position was a clear
compromise, as Linnofil already suggested.

Please note, that this is a Firewire/PC, not a DS-system. My idea is
that what happens inside the PC has a similar effect in both
systems.

Thanks again, and BR, Klaus

Nicolav
Active member
Active member
Posts: 172
Joined: 2008-04-07 22:46
Location: Italy - Rome

Post by Nicolav » 2013-03-31 19:11

k_numigl wrote:Today I end this project. It has sufficiently gained in quality to
finish work on it. Thanks in particular to Linnofil to have pointed
out the importance of this digital stuff - by my own I had never thought
to care about it! - and the PC world is that large, that without a
decent compass I just would have felt lost.

Recent activities included a E2K trial:

Image

Image

using a 8 GB Kingston RAM (HyperX KHX16C10B1B/8), mounted in the blue
slot. I was about to leave the E2K alone, as I could not bring it to
a consistent performance witht he LianLi case. But as I had more than
one 4mm alu plate made, I eventually felt, why not give it a try. Overall,
I can't make out a significant difference between the E2K and the E45
performance, when mounted in this way.

The main result, beyond those stated by Linnofil, is in my view
the surprisingly large effect of mechanics (mainboard). Many times
I felt the Intel320 sounded laid back, lazy, short of energy, etc..
It seems as if this is completely cured when the MoBo has the right
mechanical set up. To me it seems a bit funny to cure something
which was attributed to the SSD with the MoBo setting, but this is
simply the experience.

At present (E45 running, 8GB RAM as mentioned mounted, not in QVL),
the music is both detailed, fine, while engergetic and natural. The
tune(s) can be followed with ease, this is evident in particular
with multi voiced Jazz and Classic, but even Depeche's Hole to feed
sounds fine. Hank Jones's Compassion album - lively and nicely
interacting players; Mahler's sym. 3 (Levine - that's the record to
chose if interested in the piece) refined, well structured, powerful.
You may know from previous posts that equipment that is not capable
to reproduce Monk and Bach with fun is discarded here quickly.

I decided to use the E45 at the moment, because the CPU fan on the
E2K is less accessible (the small connector below the heat sink
in the first pic, visible behind the USB connector) and has an
unusual format. It is not possible to use an other fan than the
one that comes with the board/heat sink without additional effort.
I'm too lazy for that, as the other board plays well together with
the LianLi case fan (connected to CPU fan conn.).

In review, the main mechanic ingredients seem to me
- solid plate for the MoBo - without this, results have not been
repeatable here (no wonder when considering the effect of
MoBo bending, see below)
- check of the heat sink mounting screws (shutting the springs dead,
then turn back a bit to allow the springs to work)
- avoidance of any bend in the MoBo. This means at my set up that
I fasten the two screws on the RAM-side well, but the two at the
connection panel side only just so. At this side, my MoBos bend
very easily when I turn the screws further in.
- and finally, both MoBos play here best when positioned
horizontally, but upside down. Vertical position was a clear
compromise, as Linnofil already suggested.

Please note, that this is a Firewire/PC, not a DS-system. My idea is
that what happens inside the PC has a similar effect in both
systems.

Thanks again, and BR, Klaus
Thanks for the interesting report Klaus.
I am convinced that the optimization of the structural rigidity of the case is a matter that deserves to be investigated. And I'm glad you're doing that.
However, after three months of use, I can say without a doubt that my LSNAS sounds already amazing without any further tweak. Certainly could go even better, but for now this is the best nas I'ave tried so far. My system has never sounded better!
For the record, I shut off my NV + with no regrets!

Ciao
Nicola
LP12/RadikalM/Keel/Ekos SE1/Adikt/Gaio/Klimax System Hub/2 Klimax Exaktbox/2 A4200/1 A2200/A242/2

k_numigl
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 345
Joined: 2008-01-30 12:23
Location: Friesland

Post by k_numigl » 2013-04-14 05:48

A small idea how to mount the SSDs

Image

Image

I felt that the usual cable chaos inside a PC might not be be beneficial for a good sound. There seem to be no guidelines for this. Here, at least the Sata cables and the power cables for the SSDs have their own level each.

User avatar
Music Lover
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 1667
Joined: 2007-01-31 20:35
Location: In front of Lejonklou/JBL/Ofil

Post by Music Lover » 2013-04-15 12:30

k_numigl wrote:Today I end this project. It has sufficiently gained in quality to
finish work on it. Thanks in particular to Linnofil to have pointed
out the importance of this digital stuff - by my own I had never thought
to care about it! - and the PC world is that large, that without a
decent compass I just would have felt lost.
Hi Klaus, you should not end the project!!

It's not even the end of the beginning... it's just the start ;-)
The intention is to build on this knowledge and experience to further enhance the performance.
It's all about musical understanding!

ThomasOK
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 2800
Joined: 2007-02-02 18:41
Location: United States
Contact:

Post by ThomasOK » 2013-04-17 17:01

k_numigl wrote:A small idea how to mount the SSDs

Image

Image

I felt that the usual cable chaos inside a PC might not be be beneficial for a good sound. There seem to be no guidelines for this. Here, at least the Sata cables and the power cables for the SSDs have their own level each.
Glad to see you are still experimenting, Klaus. Good work on the metal plate, orientation, etc. I like this idea and imagine there might also be a musical benefit from mounting the drives to the solid aluminum piece. Have you found this to be the case?

k_numigl
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 345
Joined: 2008-01-30 12:23
Location: Friesland

Post by k_numigl » 2013-04-19 09:46

Sorry to state that I can't comment on the sonic effect of SSD mounting. There is still too much change all the time to identify this in the moment. Indeed, I still do not feel to walk on solid ground with the PC.

Just recapitulate: Mechanics playing an important role; memory seemingly differing between individuals of the same type; ReayNAS sometimes better than E45 construction; Intel SSDs mostly good, but sometimes not; file transfer via upload and download leading to inconsistent results ....

My last finding was a strong effect of sound quality (for me, this is the equivalent term to musical performance) on CPU-fan speed. But the speed is normally varying with board temperature, so no wonder that peformance varies due to the assembly situation. Different fans also draw different currents. It is the question, whether the sound difference is due to the varying total current or the PWM pulse width or both. I had experimented with no fan at all (sound good, but rapidly getting too hot - remember it is the E2K), full speed fan, and 70%. The last was the best of this tiny population of set points. The situation seems somehow to resemble the search for optimum torque setting on a tonearm mount screw ;)) , so it is not likely that I met the best setting yet.

It would be really nice to know which fan settings are used by other forum members.

BR, Klaus

k_numigl
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 345
Joined: 2008-01-30 12:23
Location: Friesland

Post by k_numigl » 2013-04-22 20:49

web's progressive state of dementia?

ThomasOK
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 2800
Joined: 2007-02-02 18:41
Location: United States
Contact:

Post by ThomasOK » 2013-04-23 04:03

Well, I'm on my way to building a LSNAS! A couple of quick questions for the last items I need to order.

Klaus, did you find the 8 GB Kingston RAM (HyperX KHX16C10B1B/8) to be the best one (as I assume from the fact you are using it)?

On the fan, should the 140mm version of the same fan work as well (as that is what will fit in the case I have coming)?

I'll give a bit more detail once I get confirmation on the rest of it but I will say that some new alternatives would be useful with some of these items becoming increasingly difficult to get.

By the way, Klaus, it has been a while since I read through all of this but I seem to remember that it was recommended to connect the fan to the CPU fan connector and not the chassis fan connector. I also believe it was said it was best not to change the default fan speed settings (although I'm not sure about this). Maybe Linnofil can explain more clearly?

Now if I can just get hold of some Taco Bell, sorry Deltaco, SATA cables I should be in good shape.

ThomasOK
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 2800
Joined: 2007-02-02 18:41
Location: United States
Contact:

Post by ThomasOK » 2013-04-23 04:11

A quick note: Debbie just ran Deltaco through the translator since I told her about my Taco Bell pun (Del Taco is a fast food "Mexican" restaurant chain in the US). It turns that Deltaco in Swedish translates to Belkin in the US! We do have Belkin here so maybe those cables aren't unobtanium over here. I will have to do some checking to see if they make the same cable with the same wire in it stateside.

k_numigl
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 345
Joined: 2008-01-30 12:23
Location: Friesland

Post by k_numigl » 2013-04-23 13:12

ThomasOK wrote:8 GB Kingston RAM (HyperX KHX16C10B1B/8) to be the best one (as I assume from the fact you are using it)?
No. I had only 4 types, and the G.Skill from the E45 OVL and the KHX mentioned above sound the same here in my E45. I skipped the A-data and some older tiny other Kingston.

Are you using a E45 or a E2K mainboard?
ThomasOK wrote:it has been a while since I read through all of this but I seem to remember that it was recommended to connect the fan to the CPU fan connector and not the chassis fan connector. I also believe it was said it was best not to change the default fan speed settings (although I'm not sure about this).

My experience at present is focused on the E2K (I changed to the E45 only yesterday, just for fun, not for a special reason). With the E2K, the CPU fan speed makes a lot of a difference (built in fan). And yes, it was recommended to use the CPU fan and not to use the chassis fan. Up to date I follow this advice. The 'standard' setting in the BIOS (both E45 and E2K) includes a fan speed control. BTW this inhibits the programme SpeedFan to work. The 12V fan voltage (= fan speed) is reduced by a PWM on the board for a lower noise level, if CPU-temperature allows for that (old 3-pin fan connector design). When the CPU is getting warmer or hot, the fan speed increases to up to 100% (voltage increases to 12V). This leads to a varying current to the fan. If sound quality is correlated to fan speed/current, this setting is therefore certainly not the best. A better control is achieved, imo, by setting the fan speed to a constant value.

BR, Klaus

ThomasOK
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 2800
Joined: 2007-02-02 18:41
Location: United States
Contact:

Post by ThomasOK » 2013-04-23 16:56

I'll be using a used E45 motherboard that appears to be in excellent shape and which I got for a good price. The E2K does not appear to be available in the US yet.

Any other comments on the RAM - is the Kingston 2x4 GB DDR3 PC10600 1333MHz (KTH9600B/4G) still generally felt to be the best?

ThomasOK
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 2800
Joined: 2007-02-02 18:41
Location: United States
Contact:

Post by ThomasOK » 2013-04-26 21:31

OK, I've been watching this long enough and have decided to get my feet wet. Actually I might have done so sooner but some critical parts have become hard to get so I had to bide my time to find what I wanted. A good example is the Intel SSD drives. I started keeping an eye on them a while ago and saw a seller on eBay listing the 600GB models at $709 or best offer new (it said he had four). I offered him $689 each for two and received no reply. After the auction ended I emailed him again and asked him if they were still for sale and was told they were sold. Since another seller had listed them for $729 I didn't figure it was a big problem. However, when I went back online I found that he had raised his price to $829 and then ended the auction early. Checking just now there are only 4 listings for new 600GB models - two at $925 and $950 were removed as fraudulent, one at $999 was ended early by the seller due to "an error in the listing" and the only real listing for one now is at $2550! With this sudden escalation of prices I wasn't about to jump in with both feet. But I did find a used one at a reasonable price from someone with good feedback so I picked it up.

Similar problems were had with the recommended E45 motherboard as it is discontinued. The replacement E2K is not yet available in the US. Again after searching for some time I purchased a lightly used E45M1-I deluxe board with all accessories. With the two difficult parts down I turned to the third problem: finding a suitable case. It seemed like there were several cases that were mostly right but pretty much none that really had everything we would want in a case. But, although I couldn't read the Chinese in the link, the case wywyaa pointed to in the thread "a little nas for linn ds" looked like it had promise. I had to do a lot of searching to find an English language website selling it but I finally did and ordered one. Here is what it looks like:

Image

If this is as it is shown to be it could be an ideal case for Mini-ITX based NAS units. It is 232.5mm W x 170 H x 361 D. It is all reasonably thick aluminum. The back, top and bottom are 3mm thick and the sides are 4mm thick. It screws together solidly. It mounts the motherboard horizontally and has claimed room for 7 drives (combination of 3.5" and 2.5") and fits a standard power supply. It has a front mounted fan 140mm in size and it comes with stick on feet so it could be placed upside down easily as per Klaus' findings. Price including shipping comes up to a little over $150US. Based on the information and photos I have seen I have ordered one of these. As they quote 2 to 8 days before it is shipped it could be another week or two before I get it but my order has been received and verified as in process. I will update the thread with more info once it has arrived.

So with the three difficult parts sorted out I have placed orders for almost everything else. Windows 7 Home edition is here, Kingston 2x4 GB DDR3 PC10600 1333MHz (KTH9600B/4G) is on the way along with the Seasonic X-460FL Platinum Power Supply. I have checked with Belkin here but they don't have the same SATA Internal cables as the Deltaco so I could use some help there.

So, as you can see I Have everything ordered I need to put together a LS-NAS. For starters I will likely just use part of the 600GB drive for the OS unless it is felt to be a bad idea. I do have a question about the fan. As the case is designed for a 140mm fan and I see that there is a Fractal Design SS version in that size, is there any reason to believe it will not work as well as the 80mm? I have one of the 140mm in my shopping cart but didn't want to pull the trigger before I found out if there was something special about the 80mm size. I also bought a mounting sled to let me put the 600GB SSD in my Mac Pro in case I want to test it there.

So in a couple of weeks I should be able to start testing my own unit and hearing what this is all about.

Post Reply