The Linnofil Super NAS!

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k_numigl
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Post by k_numigl » 2013-02-23 21:55

Music Lover wrote: previously user changed bios, upgraded the firmware etc
What differences did you observe between the firmware versions?
Which did you compare? How is that related to BIOS settings?

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Post by Nicolav » 2013-02-23 22:21

k_numigl wrote:
Music Lover wrote: previously user changed bios, upgraded the firmware etc
What differences did you observe between the firmware versions?
Which did you compare? How is that related to BIOS settings?
Two of the four Intel 320 owned by Linnofil have the same fw of my 160 GB, so I don't think the disappointing performance can be attributed to fw version.
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Post by lejonklou » 2013-02-24 00:22

Nicolav, why don't you just sell your Intel 320 and get a new one?

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Post by Nicolav » 2013-02-24 02:43

lejonklou wrote:Nicolav, why don't you just sell your Intel 320 and get a new one?
In fact, is what I'll do.
I'm sorry to have bored you with my complaints.
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Post by Linnofil » 2013-02-24 09:03

lejonklou wrote:Nicolav, why don't you just sell your Intel 320 and get a new one?
Nicolav wrote:In fact, is what I'll do.
Smart move. I think that is the only way forward in your present situation.
Nicolav wrote:I'm sorry to have bored you with my complaints.
Not at all. It's very interesting to know that this can happen. Nobody knew about this before, so it has been very informative! Since I'm so happy with my 320's it would be hard to believe this can happen without a report from a tunedem person. Now we know this can happen and if anyone else reports performance problems we can point to a faulty SSD as a possible cause.

It's not easy to be a believer in the Intel 320 SSD on the Linn forum either, but for completely different reasons: http://forums.linn.co.uk/bb/showthread.php?tid=21943
I'm glad I'm here! (Keep the comments short on this so we can stick to the subject.)
Last edited by Linnofil on 2013-02-24 09:56, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by k_numigl » 2013-02-24 09:31

Nicolav wrote:
lejonklou wrote:Nicolav, why don't you just sell your Intel 320 and get a new one?
In fact, is what I'll do.
Can you change the order of action? I think it would be benefitial to be able to compare a new and the present SSD.
If it is not for the sake of speediness, it would perhaps be possible to expedit the seemingly defective SSD to someone who can compare it already with another one. I believe it is premature to label Nicolav's SSD as faulty.

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Post by Linnofil » 2013-02-24 09:54

k_numigl wrote:Can you change the order of action? I think it would be benefitial to be able to compare a new and the present SSD.
...
I believe it is premature to label Nicolav's SSD as faulty.
I think that is a good idea. Testing is as we know the best way to gain knowledge. Does Paolo have a Intel 320 yet? It probably is faster and cheaper to ship nationally. I still belive that Nicolav's 320 is faulty, but testing with another 320 will clear that up. If Nicolav can do this test before he sells it then great. If not he can test relative to his ES.2 when he gets the new/other 320.

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Post by Nicolav » 2013-02-24 10:01

Linnofil wrote:
k_numigl wrote:Can you change the order of action? I think it would be benefitial to be able to compare a new and the present SSD.
...
I believe it is premature to label Nicolav's SSD as faulty.
I think that is a good idea. Testing is as we know the best way to gain knowledge. Does Paolo have a Intel 320 yet? It probably is faster and cheaper to ship nationally. I still belive that Nicolav's 320 is faulty, but testing with another 320 will clear that up. If Nicolav can do this test before he sells it then great. If not he can test relative to his ES.2 when he gets the new/other 320.
Hi Linnofil, unfortunately Paolo not yet have a intel 320 to compare.
But if does not bother you I'll send you to compare against yours.
What do you think?
Last edited by Nicolav on 2013-02-24 10:35, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Linnofil » 2013-02-24 10:03

Minor update on the specification. The case recommendation has been updated with information on the preferred horizontal placement of the MB. The RAM recommendation has been updated to the Kingston RAM tested by Nicolav and Music Lover. I still haven't tested this RAM myself, but I hope I can do it soon.

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Post by Linnofil » 2013-02-24 11:43

Nicolav wrote:if does not bother you I'll send you to compare against yours.
What do you think?
If you don't mind shipping it to me that would be great. I'll send you a pm with the shipping adress.

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Post by lejonklou » 2013-02-24 13:02

Nicolav wrote:In fact, is what I'll do.
I'm sorry to have bored you with my complaints.
As Linnofil wrote; you provided very important information! I only thought that since you bought it second hand, you could probably sell without loss. And since it works for data, the new owner is likely to be happy with it.

To have Linnofil testing your 320 is of course even better. Good thinking by k_numigl.

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Post by Music Lover » 2013-02-24 14:27

k_numigl wrote:
Music Lover wrote: previously user changed bios, upgraded the firmware etc
What differences did you observe between the firmware versions?
Which did you compare? How is that related to BIOS settings?
Sorry, I obviously misled you.
This was my suggestions on possible items causing the performance deficit on Nicolav's SSD.
Never tested this myself.

But I have tested many NAS firmwares, Twonky versions and different NAS and PC settings, and KNOW all these impact performance. So likely the SSD going to behave in a similar way.
It's all about musical understanding!

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Post by ThomasOK » 2013-02-25 17:14

Just thought I'd drop a note that it appears the Asus E45M1-M PRO mATX motherboard might be discontinued as well. While it is currently still available from a number of places in the US, the newegg link on page one says it is discontinued. Furthermore if you search newegg for E45M1 it will only take you to the E35M1 as they have deactivated the pages for both E45M1 variants.

For anyone in the US interested there is currently a new Asus E45M1-I Deluxe on eBay with a buy it now price of $210 and free shipping. It says they only ship to the US so I don't know if they'll ship elsewhere if asked. Here's the link:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ASUS-E45M1-I-DE ... 2a298940e4

By the way, I noticed a couple of the reviews for the Asus E45M1-I Deluxe stated that it couldn't run with Windoze 8 and there would be no upgrade from Asus to allow it to do so. I know that isn't relevant to the LSNAS but it makes me wonder if that isn't part of the reason for discontinuing the boards?

Edit: Another note. The newegg links for the Intel 320 600GB SSD have all been deactivated and they are out of stock for the 300GB versions. A quick check on Google shopping shows that J&R, a big reseller I have dealt with before, has also pulled the pages for the 600GB and 300GB versions although they have the smaller ones in stock (as does newegg). It appears that about half the dealers listed in Google shopping don't have stock of the 600GB. Amazon themselves is also out of stock but still shows some sub-vendors with stock though most are pricey. So these are starting to get thin on the ground as well. (Bet you can't guess how I've been spending my Monday morning! ;-)

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Post by k_numigl » 2013-02-26 18:15

Case; Lian Li Q08
PSU; Seasonic Platinum 460FL 460W
Motherboard; Asus E45M1-I DELUXE mini-ITX / AMD E-450 / HD 6320
RAM; G.Skill, 2x 4GB, see OVL, F3-10666CL7D-8GBRH
Music storage; Intel SSD 320, 120 GB
OS storage; same disk
2 * SATA cable included with motherboard; Serial-ATA 6Gb/s 0.3m
Power cord; Linn
OS; Windows 7 Home Premium (64-bit) (OEM DVD)
Mediaserver; none
Anti-virus; none
Switch; none
LAN cable; none
Firewire cable; Prism supplied
DS; none
ADDAC; Prism Sound Orpheus
DAW; Sonar X1

Up and running since 1 hour.
No comment on sound before 3 years running in ... :)) , but it seems
immediately as if vertical/horizontal does play a role. At the moment, I prefer horizontal. (But that maybe a question of torqueing the board.)

I will have to adjust a lot of (software-)parameters during the next week end, but wanted to let you know that the equipment is on work.

BR Klaus
Last edited by k_numigl on 2013-02-27 12:44, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by k_numigl » 2013-02-27 12:36

Are the changes I made for W7 and BIOS OK?:

- turned off Aero design and chose 'Windows Classic'
- turned off Windows features as shown by Nicolav
- disabled C-state P-min in BIOS
(Allows you to determine whether to let the CPU enter C1 mode in system halt state. When enabled, the CPU core frequency and voltage will be reduced during system halt state to decrease power consumption.)

I left the Q-Fan control at 'standard'. Did anybody change this and recognize effects? (The rear case fan is connected to the CPU fan socket. No front fan used.)

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Post by k_numigl » 2013-02-27 21:45

@Nicolav:
Can you test your PC _upside down_ ?
This is the only position my own is playing OK (= lively) in the moment.
I do not dare to describe the others.
Thanks, Klaus

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Post by Nicolav » 2013-02-27 23:08

k_numigl wrote:@Nicolav:
Can you test your PC _upside down_ ?
This is the only position my own is playing OK (= lively) in the moment.
I do not dare to describe the others.
Thanks, Klaus
Yes, I'll try. But keep in mind that the result could be affected because on the other side there are no feet.
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Post by k_numigl » 2013-02-28 09:16

Nicolav wrote: But keep in mind that the result could be affected because on the other side there are no feet.
I suggest to use the same support for a comparison, e.g. small pieces of wood, plastic, eraser rubber, or similar. If that's not possible, the result is nevertheless interesting.

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Post by k_numigl » 2013-02-28 22:08

Plays great now. (Still upside down.)

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Post by paolo » 2013-03-01 00:59

Hi all,
I've finally collected all the needed items to build the LSNAS and assembled everything in a Fractal Array R2 case bought used.
Just a quick question before installing: which SATA configuration have you chosen, IDE (default) or AHCI? I wonder if it can affect the HDDs/SSDs performance so I'd like to stick to the "standard" LSNAS configuration.

Thanks, Paolo

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Post by k_numigl » 2013-03-01 21:55

Update: E2KM1I-deluxe now playing.

I was able to get one of the first boards delivered. They deviate a bit from the
layout of the CES presentation, but overall they are pretty similar to this, and to
the E45 deluxe, too. At least connectors are at the same place, so installation
was easy. But everything had to be set up again, windows complaining about the
mobo change, requesting a totally new build up from scratch.

There was a need to proceed, as the E45 I used was on loan only. After this had
been producing mangificent results, further tweaking seemed superfluos and appeared
to be better spent on the new mainboard.

@paolo
This new installation came up with AHCI automatically as it recognized the SSD.

Comments on the sound quality are premature, of course, but it does not start at
a level as low as the E45. Perhaps this is due to the already used DDR-modules?
Who knows.

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Post by lejonklou » 2013-03-01 23:04

Klaus: Thank you for your reports! Your comments on performance, however, are cryptic. Can you be more precise?

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Post by paolo » 2013-03-02 16:16

Just up and running with my new LSNAS!

At the moment it's still in a very sub-optimal HW configuration: Fractal Array R2 case's PS, A-Data RAM, Kingston SV300 60GB SSD (both for OS and for test music), but it's already CLEARLY better than my optimized Readynas NV+! Clearly more flowing and melodic, much easier to follow instruments and voices, more fun and lively. NV+ sounds a bit hard and congested, quite mechanical in comparison. Musically a big improvement.
I am VERY HAPPY with these very first results, my inconditionate thanks to Linnifil, Music Lover and to all other guys who have put their effort in developing this great machine!!!

Back working on it and install a Seagate ES.2 HDD, ciao!

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Post by k_numigl » 2013-03-03 06:41

lejonklou wrote:Can you be more precise?
Yes, graag, easy to tell.

The complete installation of the E45 with I320 in the Q08 case initially played simply lame and tame, veiled, without any musical flow. Whether Cannonball Adderley, Joe Henderson, Bach piano fugues, Shostakovitch string quartet or piano solo - there was no power and excitement. The performers seemed to go to sleep and, even worse, didn't communicate in any way with each other but were troting each his own path, seemingly having to labor hardly while reading from their sheets. Not easy to follow instruments and voices, no fun and life.

I started playing with the case in the position LianLi had intended (MoBo vertical), but soon swapped to a horizontal board position. By accident, this was the board hanging upside down. There was more life and energy and musical structure and sense, but below par when compared to my previous PC (stand alone XP/Intel dual core, PC for music only, normal HDD). After a while I decided to bring the board to a 'normal' (parts above the PCB) horizontal position: sleepy again. So upside down was best, though not good.

The sensitivity against board orientation may be specific to the case. The posts upon which the mainboard resides, have a conical end in the Q08 (I guess in all LianLi cases). The mainboard does not sit on top of them, but the cones penetrate into the holes of the MoBo (making any torqueing close to impossible). The slightest discrepancy between the dimensions of case/MoBo thus causes a marked force on the Mobo. So I released the screws a bit and put the equipment back to play. No big improvement. Still upside down MoBo orientation.

One evening I switched on the stuff - only for the sake of running in, not much desire to listen - , and was immediately struck by the power and vigour the music suddenly had. I did (at least intentionally) nothing with respect to the equipment. Drive, wit, musical sense, ease of flow, communication between musicians (check e.g. Cannonball, Know What I mean - the piece makes neither sense nor fun without the band interacting) - all was there. I didn't switch back to my ordinary PC, I just kept listening. Schumann Lieder, Ameling; Dylan, Love and Theft; all of the above mentioned albums; Hank Jones, Compassion - really everything sounded great, and although I did not test it, I guess I would have had a hard time to distinguish the LP12/Orpheus AD-DA throughput from the files playback.

The E2K played initially much more controlled and less 'muddy' than the E45. Now I wonder how long one should have patience to let the system develop by itself. The new board seems similarly sensitive to certain features: The CPU fan makes an effect and music is best when it is running at full speed (CPU fan control disabled in BIOS). Windows features (best to turn them off) also make a marked effect (more life and natural flow when off). But there's only a very slight effect of board orientation at present, perhaps due to my mod with respect to the mounting of the board (I placed M3 plastic washers on top of the case cones, so they cannot intrude into the MoBo holes), perhaps due to the different board and different heat sink. BTW, doesn't the heat sink mount require urgently to be torque controlled (on both types of Asus MoBo)?

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Post by k_numigl » 2013-03-03 16:05

Post scriptum:
It makes sense to care about the heat sink mounting. I disassembled my set and found that the six screws were unevenly tight. Without observing any special torque value, I tightened them alike. The sound got better (less analytical, more musical). It remains to be checked whether there is an optimal value. (PC forum members recommend to take the heat sink completely off, remove the surplus gel, and keep only the necessary amount of heat conducting gel - in most assemblies there seems to be too much of it.)

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