The Linnofil Super NAS!

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k_numigl
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Post by k_numigl »

ThomasOK wrote: This would be the Lian Li PC -V354
If thinking about a LianLi case, make sure you order a 2.5 HDD mounting set with it (HD321 or 322, depending on the case) - otherwise you'll have a hard time fixing them.
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Post by k_numigl »

Linnofil wrote: Can you test with all HDD's and USB cables removed/disconnected, only with the 320 (+OS drive) and see if that makes a difference?
Very annoying stuff!: Yes, it makes a difference. 1) OS HDD plus Intel320 SSD; 2) plus USB3 HDD cable plugged in, drive sleeping; 3) as 2) but drive not sleeping. All three sound different, 2=best, 3=next best, 1=worst. I wouldn't believe it if someone told me. (The described result is confirmed repeatedly.) The USB3 is via a PCIe card on the mainboard. As the entire PC is far from the construction discussed here, I won't investigate this any further but rather wait until my Asus E45 mainboard arrives. The only useful message here is that really everything makes an effect, and this is (at least for me) not predictable.
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Post by Music Lover »

k_numigl wrote: The only useful message here is that really everything makes an effect
Great, welcome to the club :-)
It's all about musical understanding!
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Post by Music Lover »

Linnofil wrote:
Music Lover wrote:Plan to get back testing ripping later on as the NAS has a MUCH greater impact on musicality.
I know that getting a fully working LS NAS can be a bit of a revolution, but I still believe that ripping can have a very large impact as well. But with that knowledge, combining both is a no brainer.
True!
It's all about musical understanding!
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Post by Music Lover »

Not sure it has been mentioned, but please be careful - use an anti-static map with wrist strap when working with the LS NAS.
It's also important to connect the map to electrical earth.

If not, you may introduce ESD (Electrostatic discharge) that can affect the components, decrease long term stability and in the worst case affect performance.
It's all about musical understanding!
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Post by k_numigl »

That was it (E45M1-I deluxe). Asus says:
Sie haben in der Tat recht. Dieses Mainboard wird nicht mehr produziert und auch nicht mehr von uns vertrieben.
Wir empfehlen Ihnen Restposten Käufe, falls vorhanden, oder den Online- Gebrauchtwarenmarkt.
('We don't produce it any longer')
The question is, how long the Pro survives.
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Post by Nicolav »

These days listening LSNAS I noticed that, while appreciating its qualities strictly musical, sound has a tendency to always be excessively shine. Not that this affects his musicality but I have the impression that it is excessive and can get tired in the long run. Have you also found the same thing?
The thing is noticeable even by changing the power supply, so I think it is a feature of the motherboard, perhaps related to its break in?
Could also be my network cables I use, which in itself has this character. I'll get a try with others cables. Any thoughts?
LP12/RadikalM/Keel/Ekos SE1/Ekstatik/Urika II/Klimax System Hub/Klimax Exaktbox's/10 Solos/A242
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Post by Music Lover »

Nicolav wrote: sound has a tendency to always be excessively shine.
Not sure I follow you. Do you mean that the sound is bright?
- Lacking bass but mid and treble ok
OR
- Bass and mid ok but exaggerated treble

Building my LS NAS, the sound character was same as with my NV+/SSD but when I upgraded the PSU (from the R2 original to the "Platinum") the bass disappeared. Yes some bass lines suddenly wasn't there any more.
It slowly getting back with burn in. Weird but burn in can be rather strange!
Using it for three weeks and got roughly 50-60% of the bass back.
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Post by Nicolav »

Music Lover wrote:
Nicolav wrote: sound has a tendency to always be excessively shine.
Not sure I follow you. Do you mean that the sound is bright?
- Lacking bass but mid and treble ok
OR
- Bass and mid ok but exaggerated treble

Building my LS NAS, the sound character was same as with my NV+/SSD but when I upgraded the PSU (from the R2 original to the "Platinum") the bass disappeared. Yes some bass lines suddenly wasn't there any more.
It slowly getting back with burn in. Weird but burn in can be rather strange!
Using it for three weeks and got roughly 50-60% of the bass back.
In my case bass and mid is ok but exaggerated treble.
Anyway the treble is never harsh maybe a sort of hyperdefinition.
Hope this fix after burn in!
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Post by Linnofil »

k_numigl wrote:That was it (E45M1-I deluxe). Asus says:
...
('We don't produce it any longer')
The question is, how long the Pro survives.
That is indeed bad news. Lets hope they have a replacement on the way that is even better. (E55M1...?)

But as they say: Now is the time to go Pro!
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Post by k_numigl »

2 short questions:

- According to the QVL of the DIMMs, the A-Data requires a voltage higher than 1.5 V. Later in the manual there is a warning not to adjust it above 1.65 V. To what value did you adjust it?

- If you do nothing, the CPU Q-Fan control is enabled (= default). Did you switch that off?
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Post by Nicolav »

Music Lover wrote:
Nicolav wrote:Try to replace MSE with avg free and do a clean install of windows without updates.
THIS would be an interesting test! Looking forward reading your conclusion.
But I suggest if time permits changing only one parameter at the time:
1/ make a clean install of windows without updates and without MSE.
2/ update WIn, better? If not make a clean install of windows
2/ install MSE, better or worse?
3/ try other antivirus systems
Yesterday I played a bit 'with the configuration of the OS.
Uninstalled MSE and installed AVG: better.
Also uninstalled AVG: even better!
Uninstalled all programs including feature windows: there was a further improvement.
So I decided to completely clean the OS disabling access to internet: I think it's worth it.
I have yet to uninstall all updates of Win 7.
Tonight I will try the A-DATA ram and see what happens ...
Anyway yesterday sounded so ... magic! :)
LP12/RadikalM/Keel/Ekos SE1/Ekstatik/Urika II/Klimax System Hub/Klimax Exaktbox's/10 Solos/A242
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Post by Nicolav »

k_numigl wrote:2 short questions:

- According to the QVL of the DIMMs, the A-Data requires a voltage higher than 1.5 V. Later in the manual there is a warning not to adjust it above 1.65 V. To what value did you adjust it?

- If you do nothing, the CPU Q-Fan control is enabled (= default). Did you switch that off?
Maybe only if you overclock up to 1600 mhz, otherwise 1.5V should be fine.
Anyway you can leave auto and check the voltage given.
I've switched off CPU Q-fan.
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Burn-in

Post by David Neel »

After leaving the LSNAS switched on, but not playing, for four days, I've come back to a HUGE improvement. :)

Also a package from Linnofil with 2x Deltaco SATA cables - yet to be installed. And then I'll have to uninstall MSE and revert to AVG - it could be a busy weekend!
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Post by Nicolav »

Last night I put the A-Data 2x4 GB 1600MHZ Game Series in place of my Kingston 2x KtH9600B/4G 1333 mhz.
To my surprise, my Kingston wins hands down!
Probably we have to consider running in of the A-data, despite the fresh Kingston played very well from the start.
A-data with the LS NAS is less "super" than before, having lost much of his phenomenal musical breath.
So this leads me to think that there is still much to be experienced on the ram, given the great influence they have on the performance of LS NAS!
I think I'll try other sticks of ram to see if it is possible to further improve the performance of these Kingston, possibly even from the point of view of the sound that is their point lacking (a bit bright). However, in terms of tune and musical strength, for now, they are the top!
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Post by k_numigl »

Interesting test of the RAM.

Another question about the SATA cables:
After having determined their optimum direction by playback, is it advised to change their direction for ripping/download?
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Post by Music Lover »

Nicolav wrote: So this leads me to think that there is still much to be experienced on the ram, given the great influence they have on the performance of LS NAS!
I think I'll try other sticks of ram to see if it is possible to further improve the performance of these Kingston
Well done!
Looking forward reading your findings.
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Tweaking

Post by David Neel »

Started out tonight to uninstall MSE and replace with AVG. Ended up with a complete software re-install and a two-hour delay, so difficult to say how much better it is with AVG in place of MSE, but overall a small improvement.

Then I changed the power from domestic ring main to the hifi spur - an improvement, but not very big. So I eliminated the internal extension cable in the Node 304, plugging the power cord direct into the PSU (with the Node 304 top/side panels off). This gave a much bigger improvement, so much so that I am now thinking of unscrewing the power supply and mounting it on blu-tac or similar, so that I can recess it enough to accomodate the straight-in power cord.
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Post by Linnofil »

ThomasOK wrote:Since the topic of cases has come up I thought I'd share a bit of research I've done into them.
Thanks for the resaerch on cases, it seems I missed a lot with my suggestions. I agree with you Thomas, the Streacoms are out, for the PSU issue.
ThomasOK wrote:That brings me to another case which, while not being quite as sturdy as the Streacom units, might be just what we are looking for. This would be the Lian Li PC -V354 aluminum case shown here in the black finish (also available in silver and, I believe, red):

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 4AodIHoAIA
...
The one drawback I see, other than those blue fans, is that the motherboard is mounted vertically on one of the sides. If this does make the recommended motherboards sound worse this could be a problem. I suppose you could remofe the feet, put on some stick on feet and put it on its side. That wouldn't work well if you wanted the ripping drive internal, but since it should be better off external this may not matter.
I don't know if anyone else have tried this, but I have done some tests with his issue in mind. I placed a small cardboard box on a chair and then the the NAS on top of that. The thinking was that I would isolate the effect of the feet on the bottom of the case and only test the effect of the MB's direction. The best thing would probably to have the same feet on both sides and bottom. But the case is not equal in construction anyway, so it's hard to test with 100% accuracy. Anyway, the difference was very clear. Having the board horisontal was clearly superior. (Despite having the NAS in another room, away from the main system.)

So I think that the case I put in the specification is a better choice than the above Lian Li. But we are now entering the Pro zone (mATX), so it might be time to look at yet another case.
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Post by Linnofil »

jiddu_k wrote:Did some more testing yesterday.
Great that you continue to work on your LS NAS!
jiddu_k wrote:LS NAS is running continously for one week now (as is the KDS, KK is on mute) and I think it is getting better due to burn in.
jiddu_k wrote:Tested direct mains connection (on open case) - again a small step in the right direction.
Two things that takes it in the right direction, good.
jiddu_k wrote:Changed direction of (provided) sata cable. Going back and forth two times there definitely is a reproducable difference and it is worthwhile to check it out.
Yes, as you can hear, the difference is in most cables clear and with a good NAS easy to hear. So always check direction before testing cables.
jiddu_k wrote:Changed standard red sata cable for new Akasa Proslim AK-CBSA05-30BL - looking forward to the Deltaco, thanks Linnophil, will let you know when they arrive - which again was a small step forward when comparing the better direction of each cable.
Please let us know what you think of the new Deltaco cables.
jiddu_k wrote:Curios by the differences of the sata cables I tested another sata port on the motherboard - again there was a small improvement.
Wich one was the best?
jiddu_k wrote:To sum it up - LS NAS is getting better and small tweaks (mains cable, turning the plug, sata cable, direction of sata cable, sata port) are worthwhile.
I'm very pleased to hear this, It should be a lot better than your NV+. Let's hope you get there sooner than later!
jiddu_k wrote:@Linnophil: Don't be sorry about suggesting the Node 304 - it is a nice case and you said it was untested. If the psu can be mounted when turned around (making place for a straight mains plug) I'm sure one can find a way into the case.
Thanks, please let us know if you find a good mod for the 304 case.
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Post by Linnofil »

Music Lover wrote:Regarding burn in, the performance of my NAS still vary a lot after the latest upgrade (PSU 3 weeks ago)
And based on how many weeks (months) burning in can take, I advice those not perfectly happy with your LS NAS to take a deep breath.

Also I advice retesting your cables/direction after a month or two.
Two good advice right there. I agree with both.
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Post by Linnofil »

Nicolav wrote:Saturday, I tried the psu Seasonic of Paolo in place of my Corsair.
During the first hour the Seasonic sounded really bad.
The next few hours he started to play at the same level of my Corsair.
Obviously, I was expecting more from this power supply! :)

Netx day, late night the Seasonic (and all the LS NAS) sounded so beautiful!
But yesterday it sounded hurt again...
As ML said this is really frustrating, but it's comforting to know that in the end it will be fine. ;)
That's burn in for you, frustration, mixed with great happines.
Nicolav wrote:Despite the break-in, it's clear that the LS NAS opens a new dimension in playing with the DS. It 's like listening for the first time, every song you listen to, even if we know well. You can not understand unless you try!
I'm really happy for you Nicolav. It's great to hear about your progress and succeess. And I agree with you. The LS NAS effect is hard to comprehend, unless you hear it for your self. That's why I called it Super! :-)
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Post by Linnofil »

David Neel wrote:Linnofil, no apologies needed! The initial post was quite clear, you hadn't tried it, it just looked good on paper (or screen). I looked at several others before deciding that it was a good choice - so it was MY choice.
Thanks, it feels a little bit better...
David Neel wrote:Anyway, there is another solution to the power cord extension issue - we can remove the internal extension cord completely! This would leave a hole in the back of the case where the IEC socket used to be, and allow a good quality power cord to go direct to the PSU. This power cord will require a right-angle connector at the PSU end, just like the internal one supplied. Linn do not offer this (I asked), but they buy their power cords from Volex, and Volex probably make an equivalent with a right-angle socket. This afternoon I spotted that my work laptop has a Volex power cord with exactly the same mains plug and Baohing cable as my Linn power cords. Now I just have to find out how to buy one, as I can't afford the Volex minimum quantity of 5,000 units. Maybe another 4,999 LSNAS builders would like to join me in an order?
The case in my updated specification cost almost like a new linn power cord. So I advice all that have this issue with the 304 and can't find a good way to fix it, to get the newly recommended case.
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Post by Linnofil »

Linnofil wrote:With a nice fat bonus to the inventor for each one sold, surely? :-)
ThomasOK wrote:Certainly! What type of licensing fee would you desire? :-)
I'm sure I can think of something! :-)

How about 1/20 of a Tundra Mono, so when you have sold 40 LS NAS'es I get a pair of Monos? Sounds good to me!

But I also need Dynamiks for my KK and Radikal... Just add $1-200 on every LS NAS on top of your build/parts/profit cost for the NAS. What good ideas I have. I should go into business... :-)
Last edited by Linnofil on 2013-02-09 15:52, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Linnofil »

Nicolav wrote:Yesterday I played a bit 'with the configuration of the OS.
Uninstalled MSE and installed AVG: better.
Also uninstalled AVG: even better!
Great testing Nicolav! This confirms the tests done in Sweden. (And in some way David Neel's also.)

Nicolav wrote:Uninstalled all programs including feature windows: there was a further improvement.
What is "feature windows"? Where there any special SW that did a bigger difference than the others"? I ask because I have a feeling that Linn Konfig (with MS .net) didn't do my NAS any god. The NAS got worse the same night I installed Konfig, but this was during some other changes, so I'm not 100% sure of what it was. I have yet to uninstall it. Maybe this weekend I'll have the time to try it.

Nicolav wrote:So I decided to completely clean the OS disabling access to internet: I think it's worth it.
I have yet to uninstall all updates of Win 7.
It's to bad I need internet on my control devices (mostly iOS). I don't really dare to try without AV... My wife and kids would go nuts if I tried disabeling internet on the WLAN! (Or disabled DS control from the WLAN?)

Nicolav wrote:Anyway yesterday sounded so ... magic! :)
Wonderful! Thanks for testing and sharing your great results. I hope all the LS NAS builders can come to this state of satisfaction. (I'm sure they will, at some point soon).
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