The Linnofil Super NAS!

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Post by Music Lover » 2013-01-25 07:13

Music Lover wrote:
Linnofil wrote: One Swede has a Intel 330 (Sandforce SF-2281 ) in his L.S. NAS as the OS drive. He is very happy with it.
And fyi, I have 4 * Intel 320 in my LS NAS.

jiddu_k nice that you also notice the Intel SSD 320 performance
It's all about musical understanding!

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Post by k_numigl » 2013-01-25 07:58

Thanks for checking the PSU! In order to clear up possible confusion, here is how the PSU is described at Seasonic

Platinum-460 FANLESS (SS-460FL2 Active PFC)

with already an error that migrates like other errors in the dealers' descriptions: the FL2 is originally FL-squared. This is the 'X-series', so some call it X-460. It can also be found as P-460 (apparently to point out it's 'Platinum'). Seasonic's program comprises only one 460W retail PSU, so all those are the same. At one dealer, I found the piece listed under different names with different pricing..... (would not be my favourite to work in the IT hardware business). Pictures are frequently not updated, therefore it is possible to get the platinum when a gold is shown. Standard IT consumers do not care.

A second note on the SSD. You have probably noticed that you can get the Intel 320 as 9.5 mm bulk (ending G310) or retail (ending eg G3K5), and as 7 mm. (Paolo's Lenovo version has ending G3L) The retail comes with useful accessories, as Sata cable and mounting (2.5 to 3.5 adapter rail and screws), and data migration software. The 9.5 mm has a plastic sheet underneath to make a nice fit in places where a 2.5'' HDD was installed otherwise. In a NAS you do not need it, as far as I see, as the dimensions for the mounting at the sides are the same. (I ordered a 7 mm, 120 GB, it will arrive soon. So comparison to my 2.5 Seagate will be reported in the very near future.)

If the 2.5'' 500GB Seagate standard HDD is not as good for music as the Intel (what I expect), it could eventually serve as a OS drive without the adverse effect of the 3.5'' HDD. Noise is not a problem, and power consumption is with only 1.8 Watt comparable to the SSD take up of 0.8 W, 3.5'' HDD use much more. Just a guess, of course, there might be other factors, and perhaps too tedious to try.

BR, Klaus

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Post by paolo » 2013-01-25 10:35

Linnofil wrote:I'm working hard to keep everybody happy in this thread! I usually don't post this much here. But I feel I have to take some responsibility for my "creation". My wife is not superhappy with my new life in front of the PC. But I'm glad that my true music friends are. :-)
Very much appreciated!

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Post by paolo » 2013-01-25 15:09

k_numigl wrote: This is the 'X-series', so some call it X-460. It can also be found as P-460 (apparently to point out it's 'Platinum'). Seasonic's program comprises only one 460W retail PSU, so all those are the same.
Thanks Klaus for the details about PSU and SSDs.

The Platinum version should have a big silver "P" marked on the chassis, where the Gold version has a gold "X" instead, is it right? I confirm I can find the platinum version usually referred as P-460.

As for the A-Data RAM, this seems a reasonably good deal:

http://www.ebay.it/itm/ADATA-XPG-Gaming ... 999wt_1084

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Post by jiddu_k » 2013-01-25 15:35

Just placed the platinum power supply into the fractal design node 304 case. The cases manual states that the power supply has to be placed facing downward due to ventilation opening being below. The power supply manual states it has to be placed facing up.
As it is a fanless design, does it matter?
When facing down (power pins in V orientation) there is little space to connect the power cable - the cable has to be bend along the outer case.

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Post by Music Lover » 2013-01-25 17:01

jiddu_k wrote:Just placed the platinum power supply into the fractal design node 304 case. The cases manual states that the power supply has to be placed facing downward due to ventilation opening being below. The power supply manual states it has to be placed facing up.
As it is a fanless design, does it matter?
When facing down (power pins in V orientation) there is little space to connect the power cable - the cable has to be bend along the outer case.
Due to the very small power consumption, I would say no it doesn't matter.
My PSU is not warm at all. More or less as touching cold metal in the NAS.
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Post by jiddu_k » 2013-01-25 18:20

Thanks for the quick reply, ML - tried to turn it around, but two of the three holes for the screws/threads are unreachable in this case if the psu is facing up.

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Post by David Neel » 2013-01-26 00:11

jiddu_k,

I've just put my PSU into the case. Three screws are now secured, only the front left being slightly obscured. I've installed correct way up, i.e. power socket ^ - this makes sense to me as warm air will rise, and if installed upside down there is no fan to extract the trapped warm air. It does mean that the vent on the base of the case is now obscured, but I felt that was better than an upside-down power supply.

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Post by k_numigl » 2013-01-26 10:24

paolo wrote: As for the A-Data RAM,
ADATA-XPG-Gaming-Series-DDR3-1600-CL9-8-GB
@paolo
I guess that the 1600 version is overkill, my Asus manual (e45 deluxe)states that 1333 is maximum. The respective card is a bit cheaper, but in the overall costs this plays a very minor role, of course. Check the Asus board manual for info (download at Asus). But in order to stick to the described construction, it's perhaps good to use the 1600.

Correct, the Seasonic X and P print refers to gold and platinum version. But as mentioned, the dealers do not care much about the version they send and often fail to update their description.

KR, Klaus

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Post by jiddu_k » 2013-01-26 10:54

David Neel wrote:jiddu_k,

I've just put my PSU into the case. Three screws are now secured, only the front left being slightly obscured. I've installed correct way up, i.e. power socket ^ - this makes sense to me as warm air will rise, and if installed upside down there is no fan to extract the trapped warm air. It does mean that the vent on the base of the case is now obscured, but I felt that was better than an upside-down power supply.
I think I'll leave it facing down - I think it won't matter which way as the CPU is cooled passively as well. If it will get hot I'll turn it around. We could compare temperatures, if not sure which way is better.

Did you take the three case fans out of the case (they could react to vibration) or leave them inside unconnected?

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Post by David Neel » 2013-01-26 12:44

I've left the fans in place, and intend to connect them. From what I understand, the noise is so low it won't matter. I've only partially built so far, hope to complete the physical build this weekend if the last parts turn up today. Then get the software done and data transferred next weekend.

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Post by Linnofil » 2013-01-26 13:16

k_numigl wrote:
paolo wrote: As for the A-Data RAM,
ADATA-XPG-Gaming-Series-DDR3-1600-CL9-8-GB
I guess that the 1600 version is overkill, my Asus manual (e45 deluxe)states that 1333 is maximum. The respective card is a bit cheaper, but in the overall costs this plays a very minor role, of course. Check the Asus board manual for info (download at Asus). But in order to stick to the described construction, it's perhaps good to use the 1600.
As I have mentioned, I have not tested RAM's effect on NAS performance. This RAM was the only 8 GB RAM I could find that was on the QVL (Qualified Vendor List) and was garanteed to work with the MB.

Usually this is never a problem, all correct spec RAM normally works fine. But I had just put some RAM in another PC that didn't work and got the answer that if not on the QVL, no garanteee...

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Post by jiddu_k » 2013-01-26 15:11

Is Media (DLNA) Server SW (Asset UPnP) chosen for musical reasons - meaning being better than Twonky?

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Post by paolo » 2013-01-26 16:00

k_numigl wrote:
paolo wrote:I guess that the 1600 version is overkill, my Asus manual (e45 deluxe)states that 1333 is maximum. The respective card is a bit cheaper, but in the overall costs this plays a very minor role, of course. Check the Asus board manual for info (download at Asus). But in order to stick to the described construction, it's perhaps good to use the 1600.
Thanks Klaus, I agree sticking exactly with all the items suggested by Linnofil is the best way to go, even if some of them has not been tested for performance. This way all of us are starting from the same reference point.
BTW my LSNas will be exactly like yours (and David Neel I guess), I'm ordering Fractal Design chassis too (all other cases I've come across could accomodate less SSDs/HDDs or are considerably bigger).

Keep up with the good work, ciao!

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Post by Linnofil » 2013-01-26 16:51

jiddu_k wrote:Is Media (DLNA) Server SW (Asset UPnP) chosen for musical reasons - meaning being better than Twonky?
In an earlier post on page one, as a reply to SaltyDog, Linnofil wrote:Asset, Twonky, JRiver and Logitech have been tested, Asset was much, much better than the Logitech DLNA server. Asset was also clearly better than Twonky.
So, yes!

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Post by jiddu_k » 2013-01-26 17:47

Linnofil wrote:
jiddu_k wrote:Is Media (DLNA) Server SW (Asset UPnP) chosen for musical reasons - meaning being better than Twonky?
In an earlier post on page one, as a reply to SaltyDog, Linnofil wrote:Asset, Twonky, JRiver and Logitech have been tested, Asset was much, much better than the Logitech DLNA server. Asset was also clearly better than Twonky.
So, yes!
Sorry, should have checked that first.
LS-Nas-PC is running and getting its updates - takes hours.

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Post by k_numigl » 2013-01-26 18:08

Just to double check what RAM to use: Is there a general overview at Asus? From the path: Asus site / service / downlaod and then enter the mainboard and W7-64 I got a couple of files for the e45-pro and one file for the deluxe. For the pro there is a number of 8 GB possibilities listed: If 1600 then A-data, Corsair, G.Skill(ripjaw) are a possibility, 1333 contains a G.Skill only. For the deluxe I cannot find a 1600 entrance but only the 1333 G.Skill solution for 8 GB. As a PC is a mystery to me, I'm not sure to have read everything correctly.

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Post by Nicolav » 2013-01-26 19:08

k_numigl wrote:Just to double check what RAM to use: Is there a general overview at Asus? From the path: Asus site / service / downlaod and then enter the mainboard and W7-64 I got a couple of files for the e45-pro and one file for the deluxe. For the pro there is a number of 8 GB possibilities listed: If 1600 then A-data, Corsair, G.Skill(ripjaw) are a possibility, 1333 contains a G.Skill only. For the deluxe I cannot find a 1600 entrance but only the 1333 G.Skill solution for 8 GB. As a PC is a mystery to me, I'm not sure to have read everything correctly.
Yes you are correct, there are no mention of A-data 1600 mhz in QVL datasheet of the Asus E45 M1 deluxe. But if these works well in LSNAS who care? :)
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Re: The Linnofil Super NAS!

Post by David Neel » 2013-01-27 14:53

Linnofil wrote: The case fan (if any, it's better with a fan (80 mm F.D. S.S.) than without) must be connected to the processor fan pin header. Do not connect it to the chassis fan header.
Linnofil,
Can you please explain? The Node 304 case has a 3-setting fan controller, which I had thought to leave on the lowest setting. Does the processor only start the fan when necessary?
Thanks.

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Post by k_numigl » 2013-01-28 19:59

In my system, too, the Intel320 sounds great (Asus/W-XP/Firewire). Thanks a lot!

I installed it a few moments ago, and it will need more time and music to fully evaluate/appreciate it, but right from the first few seconds it is clear that it sounds superiour to what is built into the PC before. (Did I say that my Seagate 2.5'' sounds good? Dementi!).

Cannonball playing ('Presenting', a nice London/Decca pressing). Superb.

Thanks again, Klaus

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Re: The Linnofil Super NAS!

Post by Linnofil » 2013-01-28 23:40

David Neel wrote:
Linnofil wrote: The case fan (if any, it's better with a fan (80 mm F.D. S.S.) than without) must be connected to the processor fan pin header. Do not connect it to the chassis fan header.
Linnofil,
Can you please explain? The Node 304 case has a 3-setting fan controller, which I had thought to leave on the lowest setting. Does the processor only start the fan when necessary?
Thanks.
I use a Fractal Design Silent Series 80 mm fan for the processor (I have the mATX board.) and that has to be connected to the processor fan pin header, not the chassies fan pin header. This is for (musical) performance reasons. I have had no success with any fan connected to the chassies fan pin header (or to the PSU). The fan runs all the time, different settnings are available in the BIOS. (I have not checked which one is the best, yet.)

I have tried fan controls, but they have made it worse. I would try with and without to see what's best for this case and controller.

It's great that you have come this far!
Last edited by Linnofil on 2013-01-29 08:00, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Linnofil » 2013-01-28 23:54

Thanks Klaus!
k_numigl wrote:In my system, too, the Intel320 sounds great (Asus/W-XP/Firewire). Thanks a lot!
I'm glad more people are discovering the qualities of the Intel 320, they are great! Is it good for recording also? Would be nice to know, when you have time to test it.
k_numigl wrote:I installed it a few moments ago, and it will need more time and music to fully evaluate/appreciate it, but right from the first few seconds it is clear that it sounds superiour to what is built into the PC before. (Did I say that my Seagate 2.5'' sounds good? Dementi!).
:-D

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Post by Linnofil » 2013-01-29 00:03

jiddu_k wrote:Sorry, should have checked that first.
It's OK, all is forgiven! ;-)
jiddu_k wrote:LS-Nas-PC is running and getting its updates - takes hours.
Please let us know how it's going! Performance? I know it takes some time to run in. But we still want to know!

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Post by Linnofil » 2013-01-29 01:07

paolo wrote:
Linnofil wrote:I'm working hard to keep everybody happy in this thread! I usually don't post this much here. But I feel I have to take some responsibility for my "creation". My wife is not superhappy with my new life in front of the PC. But I'm glad that my true music friends are. :-)
Very much appreciated!
Thanks a lot Paolo!

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Post by k_numigl » 2013-01-29 09:53

Linnofil wrote: I'm glad more people are discovering the qualities of the Intel 320, they are great! Is it good for recording also?
Yes, recording on this disk is the logical next step. Up to date I only installed the drive and copied a few existing tracks (i.e. LP sides) on it. These had been recorded with a 1.5 TB 2.5''. Before reading your thread, I did not think/believe HDDs would make much of a difference, so I only recently discovered that they make a difference in recording as well. In any case, already the playback via the 320 in my system is great. And the improvement is not small. I installed the 7 mm SSD version, and was exited enough about the performance to order two more 300 GB disks (retail version this time, as I need the 2.5/3.5 adapters).

(Addendum to Intel 320 versions: There seem to be 2 retail versions, ending G3K5 and G3B5, including the same disk but the latter should include an USB/Sata adapter cable in addition.)

My next step is to build the full PC/Nas, most parts are ordered by now (including the A-Data Ram).

@paolo: My systems differs as it has another case: LianLi Q08. (I want to have a CD/DVD drive.) It is also not used as a NAS, but as a stand alone network free PC exclusively for music. (I do not own a DS.) The experience with the SSD corroborates my expectation, that while the final Ethernet/Firewire communication may play a role, the main parts of the PC determine the musicality in a similar fashion, so I think/hope that my results fit into this thread as well.

I don't know if it is really necessary to express also in words, that the reporting and patience especially of Linnofil is appreciated very highly, as it is so evident from the echo the NAS description experiences! For my part, I'm already delighted when the performance of the finished new PC keeps the level the SSD shows at present.... and keep being curious what happens next.

BR, Klaus

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