Routers and switches.

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ThomasOK
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Re:

Post by ThomasOK » 2016-10-24 23:56

tokenbrit wrote: Also, a quick question to ThomasOK with respect to the preferred 'polarity' of the Netgear power supply: Since US outlets have a broader flat pin, & a narrower one, did you find the better orientation of the power supply to be with the cord on the same side, or the opposite side to the broader pin? Or do you think it's likely to be inconsistent / wiring / supply dependent?
Just noticed I failed to answer this. With both power supplies it was best with the wire opposite the larger pin. This should be the same if the house is wired properly unless the ps has changed and is wired differently.
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Re: Routers and switches.

Post by erho » 2016-10-25 03:19

Nature wrote:Netgear GS108GE.

GE = Europe, Ordering Information.
Thanks.

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Re: Routers and switches.

Post by Tendaberry » 2019-03-28 13:27

I'm reviving this thread again, this time with the focus on the router and not the switch. This was prompted by the fact, that after upgrading my internet speed at home, I also received a new router for free. The one I received was the current top of the line from AVM, the FritzBox 7590. This may only be pertinent to the German speaking countries, where this brand is very popular.
Anyway, since I already had their previous top model (7490), I didn't expect much to happen, except better WLAN (Mesh).

I had already had the new, higher internet speed for a week, when I received the router, so we can rule that out as an influence.
Before connecting the new router, I listened to a few tracks from my NAS for reference. With the new 7590 in place I immediately noticed a better musical flow, everything sounded clearer and more natural, "live-like" too. Bass melodies were also easier to follow and seemed deeper than before. Needless to say, with an upgrade like that cost-free, I'm very pleased.

Have any of you experienced the same?

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Re: Routers and switches.

Post by phino » 2019-03-28 23:40

Tendaberry wrote:
2019-03-28 13:27
I'm reviving this thread again, this time with the focus on the router and not the switch. This was prompted by the fact, that after upgrading my internet speed at home, I also received a new router for free. The one I received was the current top of the line from AVM, the FritzBox 7590. This may only be pertinent to the German speaking countries, where this brand is very popular.
Anyway, since I already had their previous top model (7490), I didn't expect much to happen, except better WLAN (Mesh).

I had already had the new, higher internet speed for a week, when I received the router, so we can rule that out as an influence.
Before connecting the new router, I listened to a few tracks from my NAS for reference. With the new 7590 in place I immediately noticed a better musical flow, everything sounded clearer and more natural, "live-like" too. Bass melodies were also easier to follow and seemed deeper than before. Needless to say, with an upgrade like that cost-free, I'm very pleased.

Have any of you experienced the same?
Good result! Does everything plug straight into the router or is there a switch involved as well?
My Ds and Nas both plug into a switch which is in turn plugged into the router. I'd always assumed this insulated me from the effects of the router, but maybe not...?

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Re: Routers and switches.

Post by Tendaberry » 2019-03-29 11:52

I'm using a Cisco WS-C2960-8TC-L switch, where the ADSM and the Qnap are connected and a Netgear ProSAFE GS108T-200GES , where the TV, BluRay, Apple TV are connected.

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Re: Routers and switches.

Post by Defender » 2019-03-29 17:19

thats interesting to hear
could it be „accidentally“ better polarity now or better power supply for the new one?

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Re: Routers and switches.

Post by donuk » 2019-03-29 18:54

I do not feel qualified to report on the sound of switches and cables.
However I do think there are audible advantages to having the NAS (and Melco in my case) in a different room to the streamer.

What I have also found makes a positive improvement, not least in functionality, is to install, effectively a sub-network to include one's digital audio equipment. That is, for example, my ISP, Virgin Media provide a superhub which can be used either as a router or a modem.

As a router it is rubbish. Wifi is slow, components hang, and control softwares frequently lose their targets.
So I use the Virgin Superhub configured just as a modem.
This then feeds to a Netgear AC1750 Smart Hifi Router.
Which then feeds to an 8 port Netgear switch.
Everything plugs into this.
I have had the system running like this for a few months now. And everything is so much better.

I have heard others in the trade say this is the best way to run audio equipment that requires ethernet access.

Donuk beautiful downtown York.
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Re: Routers and switches.

Post by Tendaberry » 2019-04-02 10:19

Defender wrote:
2019-03-29 17:19
thats interesting to hear
could it be „accidentally“ better polarity now or better power supply for the new one?
Well, it IS a different power supply, so that could also be the explanation. I did test both for polarity.

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Re: Routers and switches.

Post by matthias » 2019-04-05 10:51

My experience with WiFi is not bad and I would like to share a post from another forum which shows how a Wifi network can be done well:

"Thought some of you may be interested in my network optimisation for the Innuos Statement.
I can’t begin to give answers as to exactly why this stuff works, given that we’re moving a digitally formatted analog signal around but the end result most certainly justifies the anal approach. That I guarantee.
As we’re almost never sure what the original recording sounded like, I set my goals in terms of naturalness (real humans singing and playing instruments) joy, excitement, listener involvement, total absence of listener fatigue, musical intensity, rhythmic drive and interplay, passion, ability to communicate atmosphere, mood, a sense of excitement or suspense and the system’s ability to immediately capture and maintain my attention track after track and album after album. When everything is working I should sit enraptured for hours, feeling all the emotions the music is capable of generating.

I started this project with an Innuos Zenith SE and have recently switched to the Statement. I reached the point I’m at now by trying a plethora of different networking strategies and gizmos, which I won’t bore you with. Suffice to say that every step was only taken if it brought a substantial step up in SQ. Some of the measures employed contradicted expectation, indeed one central strategy, a wi-fi connection, was initially avoided for that reason because I thought it would be rubbish.

I listen to both local and remote streaming via the Statement’s internal SSD and Qobuz from my ISP. I often use 128kbps Internet Radio. (Radio Swiss Classic) for warm up and the system is now so capitvating that I often end up listening to their beautiful program material for hours, utterly transfixed. 128kbps! And no, I’m not deaf!

When you look into the engineering of the Statement what you find are several key measures;
EMI optimisation
Computer task minimisation
Vibration control
Power supply optimization
My network optimisation attempts to implement those exact same measures where possible.

The system starts with a ISP cable and modem (Virgin) giving an incoming stream of ca.250Mbps. The modem, a Superhub 3 is connected with a short Synergistic Research Active ethernet cable to the WAN input of a TP Link Archer AC5400 Tri-band router. This way I can dedicate a 5GHz band exclusively to hi-fi duties with its own SSID and password,(so its invisible to other network users) no bandwidth sharing and up to 200mbps transfer rate. This is enough performance to make the iPad Pro controller feel like its a local -to-the-Statement GUI. Both modem and router are connected to a Sean Jacobs dual rail DC3 Mundorf option 5V LMPS, with anti-vibration measures provided by mini Atacama platforms.
In the hi-fi room a TPLink RE650 extender picks up the 5GHz band . Again the extender is dedicated exclusively to hi-fi, with no other clients and the 2.4GHz band and polling switched off. Normally the RE650 would plug into a wall socket, but this has several disadvantages;
It would be connected to the noisy house mains;
it would pick up wall-born vibration
It would generate internal vibration converting AC to 5V DC and
it uses a really cheap, nasty, noisy SMPS
To avoid all the above the RE650 was modified to remove its wall plug and internal power supply, attach it to an anti-vibration wall mount (to maintain antennae orientation) and provide it with 5V DC directly to its mother board from a Sean Jacobs DC3. The RE 650 outputs its data stream via an SR Atnosphere X Ref ethernet cable into a AQVox SE, itself wall mounted and supplied with power by another DC3 . Both DC3s stand on an Atacama minirack and are connected to the hi-fi’s dedicated mains supply through CHC IEC Black mains cables. From the AQVox SE a 1m AQVox Edge Ethernet cable connects to the Statement.
The system is in the final stages of running in, but I’m pretty pleased with the results. Delighted in fact. Once the system is completely stable I’ll try removing the AQVox switch, as the Statement’s OCXO controlled ethernet input may well do a better job alone.
So how does remote streaming compare to locally streamed files? Almost as good, certainly no shortcomings that I can identify. There’s far more difference between the actual recordings than between local and remote. And here’s the funny thing. Very often an improvement to remote streaming also improved local streaming’s performance, I’m guessing by removing noise sources that have an impact on processes common to both, like D to A conversion for example.
If you look at your system, this whole thing may look like a whole lot of faffing around but I doubt there’s anywhere in your system that you could spend a similar amount of money for anything like the same improvement in SQ. Not even close I’m guessing.
Oh and one other benefit. My home WiFi, home roaming and hi-res video streaming are now all rock solid."

Matt
 
LP12 / Exposure / JBL3677

donuk
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Re: Routers and switches.

Post by donuk » 2019-06-02 11:17

Hi Matt
Thank you for your long posting.
When I first read it I understood that you owned a Naim Statement!

I like your description of how to identify good music reproduction. Much like my own method.

I have found that using my Virgin Superhub as a modem and getting another router, and thence to a switch has greatly improved reliability of all communications. I like the idea of using 5G just for hifi! Although my music all comes via Ethernet cable.

Recently I have installed VPG from F-Secure to our computers for anonymity. I wish it were possible to install it on my Melco so I could see if streaming could be cleaned up.

In terms of the debate between which is better sounding, Qobuz or ripped CDs, I find it varies so much on the CD and the (presumably) original source of the Qobuz recording. Also a good CD can sound better than a High Resolution version. It varies so much - a bit like vinyl pressings it seems.

Cheers
Donuk.
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Re: Routers and switches.

Post by matthias » 2019-06-02 20:32

donuk wrote:
2019-06-02 11:17
Hi Matt
Thank you for your long posting.
When I first read it I understood that you owned a Naim Statement!
I like your description of how to identify good music reproduction. Much like my own method.
Hi Donuk,
my pleasure and I have to clarify that this long post is not mine but from a guy named "Blackmorec" who posts on AS and WBF. I selected this post because it mirrors my experiences with wifi.

My set-up for streaming is as follows:

Compal dual-band cable modem/wifi-router
MacBook Pro Mid 2010 High Sierra
Qobuz Studio for streaming up to 24/192
Khadas Tone Board DAC
Exposure 21 pre amp modified
Exposure 4DR power amp modified
JBL3677
All ICs: Linn Silver
Speaker cable: Exposure

At the moment I am streaming on the 2,4GHz band. After getting a new MBP I will stream on the 5GHz band which is supposed to be better.
Further I will make a diy PS for the Compal.

This set-up is very tuneful and lifelike, so I do not hesitate to recommend wifi for streaming.

Matt
LP12 / Exposure / JBL3677

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