Tragedy.
The pride and joy of my little stereo system has been a (beloved and very pampered) Klout that's sat between my Classik and my Ninkas (yes, yes - far too much amplifier for a Classik and a grave violation of Source First: but it was a very nice deal and I really love the sound....).
Anyway, I (foolishly and unthinkingly) unplugged the power strip everything was attached to while the Classik was on standby and the Klout was powered up (I simply forgot to turn everything off), and after a quiet little "plep" from the Ninkas, the Klout is now completely lifeless: it doesn't power up at all, the LEDs don't light up, and it's completely inert.
Does anyone know what I've done? The two fuses at the power input are still intact, but otherwise I don't know what to check -- have I killed the amp? Can a dealer set things right? And any idea how much this'll cost?
Thank you very much for any advice(!). I'm actually kind of heartbroken at the moment, but hopefully things will be fixable. I'll be taking the Klout to the local dealer as soon as I can get time off work, but it'd be great if I had some idea what to expect before I go in.
Thank you again,
- C
Have I killed my Klout?
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Music Lover
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Thanks, Music Lover!
Alas, I purchased my Klout second-hand, and it didn't come with a manual (and for some reason the Klout wasn't in the online library on the Linn site). Could you tell me anything about how the protection circuit works? And in particular, how do I get things to turn back on?
Thanks again -- I'm hoping I didn't do anything fatal, so your words are encouraging!
- C
Alas, I purchased my Klout second-hand, and it didn't come with a manual (and for some reason the Klout wasn't in the online library on the Linn site). Could you tell me anything about how the protection circuit works? And in particular, how do I get things to turn back on?
Thanks again -- I'm hoping I didn't do anything fatal, so your words are encouraging!
- C
I also wouldn't think you could kill a Klout that easily although if the fuses are OK I can't think of what would be wrong. The Klout only uses one fuse - the other is a spare. If you just did a visual check on the fuses you might try swapping them just to make sure it isn't the fuse. Also, did you double check to make sure the power cord is plugged in thoroughly? Generally the protection circuits on Linn amps should reset if they are disconnected form the AC for a few minutes as long as there are no shorts in the speaker cables, etc.
If you do actually need repair Linn have a flat rate repair program in the US, I'm not sure if it is the same in other countries. You should be looking at about $250 to $300US plus shipping both ways and any charges the dealer has for verifying the problem before sending it to Linn.
If you do actually need repair Linn have a flat rate repair program in the US, I'm not sure if it is the same in other countries. You should be looking at about $250 to $300US plus shipping both ways and any charges the dealer has for verifying the problem before sending it to Linn.
Like others have said; your action as you described it should not kill anything. Unplugging the power strip or the power cords while the units are on is not a problem. Most machines are switched off that way; by breaking the mains power.
Have you flipped the Klout's switch at the back in the right direction? Middle is off, one way is remote-controlled-power-ON (by a Kairn for instance) and the other way is ON.
Have you flipped the Klout's switch at the back in the right direction? Middle is off, one way is remote-controlled-power-ON (by a Kairn for instance) and the other way is ON.
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Moomintroll
- Active member
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- Location: UK
As an owner of three Klouts, I would agree with everything that's been said here. I switch mine on and off from the mains socket, which is the same as pulling the plug. Linn actually suggested this as a suitable way of switching them if the rear switches can't be accessed. Like Fredrik, I would favour the position of the rear switch - I've fallen for this before without realising it. One other option, which probably won't affect you, but might be of interest to Kairn users who use the Remote Out socket to auto power on on their Klouts, is to ensure that the phono carrying the 12v feed is securely in place - I have seen instances where this has made intermittent contact when the Klouts were running hot, causing them to switch off and on during use. This shouldn't be a problem if good quality plugs are used (eg Linn knekts)
'Troll
'Troll
It lives!!! =)
Hello Everyone!
Well, the Klout is working now! Thank you for all the help and encouragement -- had it not been for your various suggestions (and especially your assurance that I could not have killed the amp by unplugging the mains), I would have given up long ago. But it's working wonderfully now, and here's what happened:
1) The most striking thing was your collective rock-solid certainty that unplugging a running amp could not have done permanent damage to it, and that the problem probably lay in the mechanical contacts and switches. That set the direction for what followed.
2) As per your suggestions, I first swapped around the fuses (and checked them with a circuit tester). When that didn't work, I tried a different mains cable & several different electrical outlets around my apartment. Next, I clicked the On/Off/Standby switch repeatedly through its positions, in the hopes of cleaning hypothetical oxidation off the contacts. Nothing worked, and the amp remained utterly lifeless.
3) At this point, I was ready to concede defeat (a completely lifeless amp (e.g., no glow from the LEDs, no hum, no clicking relays) is a depressing thing to experiment with; after a while you feel like you're trying to energize a brick....) -- but again, you were all so certain that it couldn't be dead! So, after forlornly cycling through Step 2 a few more times, I turned to the only moveable part of the Klout that I hadn't yet moved: the voltage selection dial. (And thank you for the online Klout manual, Pediatrik(!) -- it was from reading the manual that I thought of the dial at all.) That dial was correctly set at 120V (I'm in the U.S.), and for lack of anything better to do, I turned it to 220V, and then back to 120V. The movement was "gritty", as if the contacts behind the dial had oxidized a bit.....and when I plugged the amp back in and flipped the power switch, the relay clicked, the LEDs flicked on, and the amp came suddenly to life(!).
So what happened? I look forward to hearing from someone who knows much more about amplifier internals than I, but I can only guess that the electrical contacts in the voltage-selector must have been steadily oxidizing over the years, and were just about to stop conducting when I unplugged things from the wall. Somehow that unplugging action was the final straw, and suddenly the electrical contact was broken. (I've no idea how -- but I've noticed while jumpstarting cars (winter in Boston....) that a poor battery connection can work ok until the initial jump fails, after which the motor refuses to even turn over until you've cleaned up or tightened the contacts. Perhaps something similar was at work here....)
The really strange thing (and it might just be my imagination, as I've really missed and lamented the Klout while it seemed dead...) is that the Klout seems to sound better than it previously did. There's not much in tune dem terms (at least not within my fuzzy understanding of Tune Dem), but somehow orchestral instruments seem spaced farther apart than I remember them being last week, and if I close my eyes while listening, the space around me seems "bigger", with more distant walls and a higher ceiling than before. Again, it's probably my imagination! But in any case it's nice to have the Klout back. =)
(And on a separate but related note: to me, when hooked up to a Classik, a single (biwired) Klout on its own sounds (much) better than does a passively-biamped Classik + LK85 combo. Indeed, given current Klout prices on eBay, adding a Klout to a Classik is a very nice, cost-effective upgrade -- one that'll keep me happy for a good long while, until I've saved up enough for a better source....)
Thank you again, everyone! It's very kind of you all to help out a novice, and you've saved me time, money, and worry. Best wished to all of you, and please have a great week ahead. Cheers!
- C
P.S. -- just thought of something: when a conventional switch is thrown to disengage a component from the power supply, does the ground remain connected? And if so, would unplugging from the wall produce a somewhat different situation (in that unplugging would break not only the power connection, but the ground as well)? In the latter situation, I'm not sure how the component would dissipate all the inductive current built up in the transformers -- could that dissipation cause arcing in a poor contact (such as the one at my voltage selector)? Could that be why the contact failed on unplugging, and not during all the times I flipped the power switch?
Well, the Klout is working now! Thank you for all the help and encouragement -- had it not been for your various suggestions (and especially your assurance that I could not have killed the amp by unplugging the mains), I would have given up long ago. But it's working wonderfully now, and here's what happened:
1) The most striking thing was your collective rock-solid certainty that unplugging a running amp could not have done permanent damage to it, and that the problem probably lay in the mechanical contacts and switches. That set the direction for what followed.
2) As per your suggestions, I first swapped around the fuses (and checked them with a circuit tester). When that didn't work, I tried a different mains cable & several different electrical outlets around my apartment. Next, I clicked the On/Off/Standby switch repeatedly through its positions, in the hopes of cleaning hypothetical oxidation off the contacts. Nothing worked, and the amp remained utterly lifeless.
3) At this point, I was ready to concede defeat (a completely lifeless amp (e.g., no glow from the LEDs, no hum, no clicking relays) is a depressing thing to experiment with; after a while you feel like you're trying to energize a brick....) -- but again, you were all so certain that it couldn't be dead! So, after forlornly cycling through Step 2 a few more times, I turned to the only moveable part of the Klout that I hadn't yet moved: the voltage selection dial. (And thank you for the online Klout manual, Pediatrik(!) -- it was from reading the manual that I thought of the dial at all.) That dial was correctly set at 120V (I'm in the U.S.), and for lack of anything better to do, I turned it to 220V, and then back to 120V. The movement was "gritty", as if the contacts behind the dial had oxidized a bit.....and when I plugged the amp back in and flipped the power switch, the relay clicked, the LEDs flicked on, and the amp came suddenly to life(!).
So what happened? I look forward to hearing from someone who knows much more about amplifier internals than I, but I can only guess that the electrical contacts in the voltage-selector must have been steadily oxidizing over the years, and were just about to stop conducting when I unplugged things from the wall. Somehow that unplugging action was the final straw, and suddenly the electrical contact was broken. (I've no idea how -- but I've noticed while jumpstarting cars (winter in Boston....) that a poor battery connection can work ok until the initial jump fails, after which the motor refuses to even turn over until you've cleaned up or tightened the contacts. Perhaps something similar was at work here....)
The really strange thing (and it might just be my imagination, as I've really missed and lamented the Klout while it seemed dead...) is that the Klout seems to sound better than it previously did. There's not much in tune dem terms (at least not within my fuzzy understanding of Tune Dem), but somehow orchestral instruments seem spaced farther apart than I remember them being last week, and if I close my eyes while listening, the space around me seems "bigger", with more distant walls and a higher ceiling than before. Again, it's probably my imagination! But in any case it's nice to have the Klout back. =)
(And on a separate but related note: to me, when hooked up to a Classik, a single (biwired) Klout on its own sounds (much) better than does a passively-biamped Classik + LK85 combo. Indeed, given current Klout prices on eBay, adding a Klout to a Classik is a very nice, cost-effective upgrade -- one that'll keep me happy for a good long while, until I've saved up enough for a better source....)
Thank you again, everyone! It's very kind of you all to help out a novice, and you've saved me time, money, and worry. Best wished to all of you, and please have a great week ahead. Cheers!
- C
P.S. -- just thought of something: when a conventional switch is thrown to disengage a component from the power supply, does the ground remain connected? And if so, would unplugging from the wall produce a somewhat different situation (in that unplugging would break not only the power connection, but the ground as well)? In the latter situation, I'm not sure how the component would dissipate all the inductive current built up in the transformers -- could that dissipation cause arcing in a poor contact (such as the one at my voltage selector)? Could that be why the contact failed on unplugging, and not during all the times I flipped the power switch?
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Music Lover
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- Location: In front of Lejonklou/JBL/Ofil
Re: It lives!!! =)
Thats normal!Ceilidh wrote:The really strange thing (and it might just be my imagination, as I've really missed and lamented the Klout while it seemed dead...) is that the Klout seems to sound better than it previously did.
If you also unplug and reinsert all internal cables a few times and retighten the screws in the chassis it going to sound even better. :D
It's all about musical understanding!
Glad to hear it got solved, Ceilidh!
Regarding the ground connection, it is not broken when you turn the unit of with the main switch. So you are correct that the situation is slightly different from when unplugging the mains cord.
There is however no current running in the ground connection. The ground is there for electrical safety only and the fault you had did not happen because you unplugged the cord instead of flipping the switch.
Regarding the ground connection, it is not broken when you turn the unit of with the main switch. So you are correct that the situation is slightly different from when unplugging the mains cord.
There is however no current running in the ground connection. The ground is there for electrical safety only and the fault you had did not happen because you unplugged the cord instead of flipping the switch.
Ah, I see....
Hello Folks!
1) Music Lover, thank you for the reassurance that I'm not going crazy (it still might just be the relief I'm feeling to have the Klout working again, but the amp really does seem to sound better!). Last night I flipped the Klout over again and clicked the voltage selector back and forth until all the "gritty" feel was completely gone, and now the sound seems improved in Tune Dem terms too (e.g., I can pick out internal instrumental lines that I don't recall hearing before). But as for opening up the chassis and unplugging/replugging all the internal connections: thanks for the suggestion, but no thank you!!! =) I believe you that it'll sound better afterwards(!), but after this last scare I'm not about to do anything with the Klout beyond letting it sit on its pampered shelf and generally enjoy a life of indolent ease. (In other words, I'm too chicken.)
2) Mr. Lejonklou, thanks for explaining how the ground connection works. It's still a mystery why the Klout chose my first accidental unplugging to take a long nap, but odd things do happen, and I guess it was just one of those unlikely coincidences!
3) By the way: I've read all your old Topica posts about how biamping with mismatched amplifiers really doesn't work, but before this recent incident, I didn't find that to be the case with the Klout and Classik -- in experiment after experiment, the Klout & Classik passive biamp combo came out ahead of the Klout on its own, both in Tune Dem terms and in vaguer senses of "excitement" and "drive". But now the solo Klout decidedly sounds better than it does in +Classik biamp mode. The rational side of my brain still tells me I'm crazy -- how can a dirty voltage-selector degrade the sound? -- but if this is a psychological effect, it's a pretty strong one!: I've never heard my system sounding so good!
Isn't it wonderful to be alive in the Spring, and to have a Linn system to listen to when you come home after work? =)
Best wishes, everyone!
1) Music Lover, thank you for the reassurance that I'm not going crazy (it still might just be the relief I'm feeling to have the Klout working again, but the amp really does seem to sound better!). Last night I flipped the Klout over again and clicked the voltage selector back and forth until all the "gritty" feel was completely gone, and now the sound seems improved in Tune Dem terms too (e.g., I can pick out internal instrumental lines that I don't recall hearing before). But as for opening up the chassis and unplugging/replugging all the internal connections: thanks for the suggestion, but no thank you!!! =) I believe you that it'll sound better afterwards(!), but after this last scare I'm not about to do anything with the Klout beyond letting it sit on its pampered shelf and generally enjoy a life of indolent ease. (In other words, I'm too chicken.)
2) Mr. Lejonklou, thanks for explaining how the ground connection works. It's still a mystery why the Klout chose my first accidental unplugging to take a long nap, but odd things do happen, and I guess it was just one of those unlikely coincidences!
3) By the way: I've read all your old Topica posts about how biamping with mismatched amplifiers really doesn't work, but before this recent incident, I didn't find that to be the case with the Klout and Classik -- in experiment after experiment, the Klout & Classik passive biamp combo came out ahead of the Klout on its own, both in Tune Dem terms and in vaguer senses of "excitement" and "drive". But now the solo Klout decidedly sounds better than it does in +Classik biamp mode. The rational side of my brain still tells me I'm crazy -- how can a dirty voltage-selector degrade the sound? -- but if this is a psychological effect, it's a pretty strong one!: I've never heard my system sounding so good!
Isn't it wonderful to be alive in the Spring, and to have a Linn system to listen to when you come home after work? =)
Best wishes, everyone!
Re: Ah, I see....
It's good to hear that your Klout is alive & kicking again!
I really like the combo Classik(-K)+Klout, too, for me it seems that the weakest part of the Classik is it's amp, so it seems to be some kind of "source first device": Wonderful CD part, really good integrated pre-amp and a good power amp.
I have the same impression with my Classik+Klout+Tukan combo, using the Klout amp only clearly wins over both mixed bi-amp combinations.Ceilidh wrote: But now the solo Klout decidedly sounds better than it does in +Classik biamp mode.
I really like the combo Classik(-K)+Klout, too, for me it seems that the weakest part of the Classik is it's amp, so it seems to be some kind of "source first device": Wonderful CD part, really good integrated pre-amp and a good power amp.
I do not find it surprising at all that it should sound better after you have "cleaned" the voltage selector contacts (which is what you have done). You have to remember that the power runs through the contacts on the selector so having clean contacts will definitely improve the flow of current into the Klout and, hence, the sound.
There is no question that unplugging and plugging in the internal cables would improve things further, but not everyone is comfortable going inside their unit to do this (nor should they be considering dangerous voltages and static precautions). However, a definite improvement can be had by unplugging and replugging ALL cables in the system (power, interconnect and speaker) at least a couple of times a year. And if you do a tune dem you can even hear a difference between which way the fuse is inserted in the unit!
There are many things that really don't make much sense but still have a repeatable effect on improving the tunefulness of the system such as turning your LP12 mat over. It may sound crazy but it sounds better with one side up than it does with the other! Try it sometime and see.
I'm glad to hear that the Klout is up and running and also that you took the initiative to try a few things bolstered by our feelings that you couldn't have blown it up. I am also honestly surprised that none of us thought of the voltage selector. Just goes to show even the "experts" miss things once in a while.
There is no question that unplugging and plugging in the internal cables would improve things further, but not everyone is comfortable going inside their unit to do this (nor should they be considering dangerous voltages and static precautions). However, a definite improvement can be had by unplugging and replugging ALL cables in the system (power, interconnect and speaker) at least a couple of times a year. And if you do a tune dem you can even hear a difference between which way the fuse is inserted in the unit!
There are many things that really don't make much sense but still have a repeatable effect on improving the tunefulness of the system such as turning your LP12 mat over. It may sound crazy but it sounds better with one side up than it does with the other! Try it sometime and see.
I'm glad to hear that the Klout is up and running and also that you took the initiative to try a few things bolstered by our feelings that you couldn't have blown it up. I am also honestly surprised that none of us thought of the voltage selector. Just goes to show even the "experts" miss things once in a while.
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Music Lover
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Re: Ah, I see....
As the voltage selector had a poor connection, other components may have as well...Ceilidh wrote: But as for opening up the chassis and unplugging/replugging all the internal connections: thanks for the suggestion, but no thank you!!! =) I believe you that it'll sound better afterwards(!), but after this last scare I'm not about to do anything with the Klout beyond letting it sit on its pampered shelf and generally enjoy a life of indolent ease. (In other words, I'm too chicken.)
I offer my assistans, send me your phonenumber in a PM and I can guide you on-line.
It´s quite simple really!
Up to you.
It's all about musical understanding!
How do I get the cover off?
Hello again!
Ok, ok, you've talked me into it -- I'll try to unplug and replug the internal connectors. One major problem however:
I've removed the two allen screws that hold down the back of the Klout's top cover, but I can't figure out what's holding down the front edge (the edge that butts against the faceplate). Is there some sort of catch that I should be releasing? There seems to be something attached to the middle of the front edge, and I don't want to bend the cover by pulling upwards too hard.
Suggestions appreciated! (And if you collectively think I should leave the Klout alone, please do say so and I'll stop where I am!)
Thank you again. =)
Ok, ok, you've talked me into it -- I'll try to unplug and replug the internal connectors. One major problem however:
I've removed the two allen screws that hold down the back of the Klout's top cover, but I can't figure out what's holding down the front edge (the edge that butts against the faceplate). Is there some sort of catch that I should be releasing? There seems to be something attached to the middle of the front edge, and I don't want to bend the cover by pulling upwards too hard.
Suggestions appreciated! (And if you collectively think I should leave the Klout alone, please do say so and I'll stop where I am!)
Thank you again. =)
Oh my goodness....
Alright, I'm a believer. =)
There's a harpsichord playing (quite loudly) that I never noticed before. Amazing. I'll post more (perhaps tomorrow?) as I have to go into work now, but oh my goodness, what an improvement a little unplugging / plugging makes. Thanks everyone -- I'll tell you all about it anon, but thank you!!!
- C :
There's a harpsichord playing (quite loudly) that I never noticed before. Amazing. I'll post more (perhaps tomorrow?) as I have to go into work now, but oh my goodness, what an improvement a little unplugging / plugging makes. Thanks everyone -- I'll tell you all about it anon, but thank you!!!
- C :
klout
Ceilidh,
I had 3 klouts for a while. If it is older than 10 years and you are friends with a competent electrical engineer or other. It may be worth considering getting it recapped. I had all 3 done - BIG difference. About £150 for each one?
Others may have diffeerent ideas, but I thought it was money very well spent.
good luck
Steve.
I had 3 klouts for a while. If it is older than 10 years and you are friends with a competent electrical engineer or other. It may be worth considering getting it recapped. I had all 3 done - BIG difference. About £150 for each one?
Others may have diffeerent ideas, but I thought it was money very well spent.
good luck
Steve.
Hello People!
I'll be posting a fuller account of Klout happenings later this weekend, but for now I wanted to express some thanks....
First of all, thank you, Mr. Lejonklou, for explaining how the top cover comes off -- the Klout pieces fit so beautifully that it never occurred to me that it would slide aft (I'm used to sliding covers that have little telltale gaps and a subtle amount of unevenness in the final fit; the Klout has none of that). I'm really glad the cover didn't bend in my original attempts to "release" it, and thank you for so quickly setting me straight!
Music Lover, I basically owe you thanks for a brand new stereo system: opening the Klout seemed pretty scary, but I'm really glad you suggested doing so! It's sobering to realize that I've had this Klout for months without knowing how good it really is (and thank you as well for offering to help guide me through the steps -- I would have taken you up on it, but the decision to open things up was sudden and impromptu). I'm just amazed at how nice my little 2-box system sounds now. =)
Sommerfree, I'm very glad to have met someone else with the same Classik + Klout combination! (And it's doubly reassuring that we're finding the same things, acoustically.) But how did you end up with this (rather unorthodox) combo? For me, it was from talking with a Linn engineer (Michael McDevitt) last summer, when an AV5105 amp was sitting unbid-for on eBay. Michael advised against my getting that amp, as its sound signature wouldn't fit well with the Classik's, and he encouraged me to look for a used LK-series amp instead. The recommendation was for an LK140 for biamping purposes, as Klouts were completely out of my league financially (he liked the LK140 much more than the LK85, and he also thought a Classik+LK100 combo would be cost-effective), and I spent basically the rest of the summer and fall getting outbid on one eBay LK140 after another. It was pretty depressing(!). But then one week a beautiful, pristine Klout showed up without anybody bidding on it (I think people were afraid it was a scam), and then my parents suddenly stepped in and said they'd help make up the difference between it and an LK140 (I think my father had been waiting for years, looking for a present that would really mean something to his son -- and after months of hearing me talk on the phone about amps, Linn, Klouts, and eBay, he realized he had found it). And that's how I ended up with a Klout. To be honest, I always felt a little sheepish about it (the Klout and my Classik were both built the same year, with the Klout at the very top of the then-Linn line and the Classik at the very bottom - so it's kind of a mismatch), and the Klout indeed is the single nicest thing in my entire apartment -- but I loved the sound from the very first day, and (especially given its associations with my parents) it's been my pride and joy (which is why I was so heart-broken when I thought I had accidentally killed it).
(By the way: I wonder what some of the other experts here think of the Classik + Klout combo? It's an apparent Source-First violation, but Sommerfree is liking it too, and it was Michael (at Linn)'s original suggestion to me as well (he felt that the sonic signatures of the Klout and the Classik Music were complementary in a way that made the combination sound surprisingly nice). At original retail prices, the combo would be absurd -- but a used Klout is far less costly than a used Ikemi (or Unidisk!!!), and perhaps the Classik's front end is not that bad?...)
To continue with the thanks: Pediatrik and Moomintroll, I've mentioned this already, but thanks again for the Klout manual and for the suggestions on how to get the Klout working again (it was very kind of you both!).
Poppop: thank you for the suggestion on the capacitors(!). My Klout is 6 years old, so hopefully it'll be ok for now (but goodness, I wonder how these units sounded when they were new?).
And ThomasOK, I've said this before, but it really bears repeating: it's really extraordinarily generous of you (and Mr. Lejonklou) to spend so much time and effort to educate and help all of us on this forum (and in particular, I so very much appreciate your taking the time to advise me on my Klout). The Internet is a marvelous creation, and there's much to be learnt on various forums, but whilst a good forum will have contributions from many skilled and expert enthusiasts (as is certainly the case here), it's rare for any public forum to have the regular attendance of an industry professional who is articulate, perceptive, and willing (and able) to write posts that not only advise on the matter on hand, but that also provide background, context, and implications.
To all of you: I came to this forum because of a brief mention of it on the Topica Linn list, and whilst I've wonderful respect and fondness for that list (I still enjoy reading the Topica posts, and there are some truly knowledgeable (and kind) individuals posting there), I'm beginning to find that this forum has a level of reasoned, factual, in-depth helpfulness that is an example of the Internet at its best. Goodness knows if this forum will grow and flourish, but I hope it does -- and if/when it does, I hope we can all work to nourish the spirit and culture that's in evidence here.
I'll give a wrapup on the Klout in a bit; until then, may you all please have a fine weekend!
-C
I'll be posting a fuller account of Klout happenings later this weekend, but for now I wanted to express some thanks....
First of all, thank you, Mr. Lejonklou, for explaining how the top cover comes off -- the Klout pieces fit so beautifully that it never occurred to me that it would slide aft (I'm used to sliding covers that have little telltale gaps and a subtle amount of unevenness in the final fit; the Klout has none of that). I'm really glad the cover didn't bend in my original attempts to "release" it, and thank you for so quickly setting me straight!
Music Lover, I basically owe you thanks for a brand new stereo system: opening the Klout seemed pretty scary, but I'm really glad you suggested doing so! It's sobering to realize that I've had this Klout for months without knowing how good it really is (and thank you as well for offering to help guide me through the steps -- I would have taken you up on it, but the decision to open things up was sudden and impromptu). I'm just amazed at how nice my little 2-box system sounds now. =)
Sommerfree, I'm very glad to have met someone else with the same Classik + Klout combination! (And it's doubly reassuring that we're finding the same things, acoustically.) But how did you end up with this (rather unorthodox) combo? For me, it was from talking with a Linn engineer (Michael McDevitt) last summer, when an AV5105 amp was sitting unbid-for on eBay. Michael advised against my getting that amp, as its sound signature wouldn't fit well with the Classik's, and he encouraged me to look for a used LK-series amp instead. The recommendation was for an LK140 for biamping purposes, as Klouts were completely out of my league financially (he liked the LK140 much more than the LK85, and he also thought a Classik+LK100 combo would be cost-effective), and I spent basically the rest of the summer and fall getting outbid on one eBay LK140 after another. It was pretty depressing(!). But then one week a beautiful, pristine Klout showed up without anybody bidding on it (I think people were afraid it was a scam), and then my parents suddenly stepped in and said they'd help make up the difference between it and an LK140 (I think my father had been waiting for years, looking for a present that would really mean something to his son -- and after months of hearing me talk on the phone about amps, Linn, Klouts, and eBay, he realized he had found it). And that's how I ended up with a Klout. To be honest, I always felt a little sheepish about it (the Klout and my Classik were both built the same year, with the Klout at the very top of the then-Linn line and the Classik at the very bottom - so it's kind of a mismatch), and the Klout indeed is the single nicest thing in my entire apartment -- but I loved the sound from the very first day, and (especially given its associations with my parents) it's been my pride and joy (which is why I was so heart-broken when I thought I had accidentally killed it).
(By the way: I wonder what some of the other experts here think of the Classik + Klout combo? It's an apparent Source-First violation, but Sommerfree is liking it too, and it was Michael (at Linn)'s original suggestion to me as well (he felt that the sonic signatures of the Klout and the Classik Music were complementary in a way that made the combination sound surprisingly nice). At original retail prices, the combo would be absurd -- but a used Klout is far less costly than a used Ikemi (or Unidisk!!!), and perhaps the Classik's front end is not that bad?...)
To continue with the thanks: Pediatrik and Moomintroll, I've mentioned this already, but thanks again for the Klout manual and for the suggestions on how to get the Klout working again (it was very kind of you both!).
Poppop: thank you for the suggestion on the capacitors(!). My Klout is 6 years old, so hopefully it'll be ok for now (but goodness, I wonder how these units sounded when they were new?).
And ThomasOK, I've said this before, but it really bears repeating: it's really extraordinarily generous of you (and Mr. Lejonklou) to spend so much time and effort to educate and help all of us on this forum (and in particular, I so very much appreciate your taking the time to advise me on my Klout). The Internet is a marvelous creation, and there's much to be learnt on various forums, but whilst a good forum will have contributions from many skilled and expert enthusiasts (as is certainly the case here), it's rare for any public forum to have the regular attendance of an industry professional who is articulate, perceptive, and willing (and able) to write posts that not only advise on the matter on hand, but that also provide background, context, and implications.
To all of you: I came to this forum because of a brief mention of it on the Topica Linn list, and whilst I've wonderful respect and fondness for that list (I still enjoy reading the Topica posts, and there are some truly knowledgeable (and kind) individuals posting there), I'm beginning to find that this forum has a level of reasoned, factual, in-depth helpfulness that is an example of the Internet at its best. Goodness knows if this forum will grow and flourish, but I hope it does -- and if/when it does, I hope we can all work to nourish the spirit and culture that's in evidence here.
I'll give a wrapup on the Klout in a bit; until then, may you all please have a fine weekend!
-C
Last edited by Ceilidh on 2007-05-30 13:56, edited 1 time in total.
Klout Wrapup - Part 1
Hello there!
Just wanted to tell you all what yours truly (the junior member of this forum) found with the Klout "servicing":
1) First of all, I now know what people mean when they refer to the Klout being a work of art!
I didn't realize that the sides, front, and back were all part of a solid, continuous casting (no wonder the thing feels so rigid and hewed-from-stone when you pick it up!). And the internals were absolutely pristine: the casing's so well sealed that when I opened it, there was not a speck of dust inside, and the circuit boards were gleaming like brand new. The manufacturing costs must have been considerable, and physically the internals are just gorgeous.
2) The connections are all power-related.
(This is something the experts here all already know, but I mention it in case a novice like myself ever comes across this post: before the Klout episode, I didn't understand why audiophiles talk so much about power supplies (after all, power is power, right?). But considering that all I did was clean off the contacts on the cables running from the transformer to the relay to the voltage selector and to the L&R channel power supplies -- and considering that my stereo now sounds far better than before -- it's clear now that power has a huge (HUGE!) effect on the sound. Again, old news to the folks on this forum, but I wasn't a believer before, and now I am. Call me converted. =)
3) My Klout must have lived in a humid environment before I purchased it.
It's a latest-version unit (2001-vintage), with literally not a mark on the outside, but as Music Lover pointed out, if the voltage selector had oxidized to the point that the amp quit, all the internal contacts were probably oxidized too. They were: the brass contacts on the piggy-back boards were clean, but all the white-metal power connectors had a visible colour change where the unplugging/replugging had cleaned things off. So the sound improvement on my Klout was probably much bigger than that experienced by the Topica posters who talked of Klout "servicing" in 2004.
4) There's much more treble than before.
The Classik has a tone control, and changing the treble settings has a much bigger effect on the sound (and on the non-Tune Dem feelings of "space" and "air") than was previously the case. That's one reason why I could hear a harpsichord that I didn't notice before: it was previously lost in the ensemble, but there's so much more (clean) treble now that the shimmering harpsichord notes are obvious, even amidst an orchestral forte.
5) A partial cleaning is worse than none at all.
When I first opened the Klout, I could get at all the connectors but one: the recalcitrant connector was the one deadended on the left-channel power supply, and I just couldn't reach it (on the right-channel, I could remove the piggyback board and gain access to the connector; the left-channel piggyback board would jam halfway out, and I feared breaking it). So I initially left that connector alone. Oh my, what a horrible sound! --
When I fired up the Klout after this initial "cleaning", there was a lot more treble alright -- but it was all in the right-hand channel! Although things just didn't sound right, at first I tried to persuade myself that it was all ok: after all, harpsichords sit on the right side of the orchestra, so maybe that just became more evident. But eventually I put on "An Excess of Pleasure" (Linn Records -- Palladian Ensemble; fantastic CD), where the violinist (Rachel Podger) stands on the left and a recorder player (Pamela Thorby) is on the right. And, oh my, that was just hideous....
Rachel Podger is one of the best early-music violinists around, and one of her many strengths is how she bows the notes so that each note - even in a complicated, rapid cascade - has a life and shape of its own. In prosaic, physics terms, that means (among other things) that she varies the bow pressure on each note so that (among other things) the mix of treble and midrange frequencies varies from the beginning of the note to the end. And with the right channel playing much more high treble than the left, that meant that on every note, Rachel Podger's violin was zooming left and right, left and right, smearing across the stage and occasionally landing on top of Pamela Thorby's recorder! It was absolutely weird (and extremely unpleasant).
Ooops -- work break is over. More later!
Just wanted to tell you all what yours truly (the junior member of this forum) found with the Klout "servicing":
1) First of all, I now know what people mean when they refer to the Klout being a work of art!
I didn't realize that the sides, front, and back were all part of a solid, continuous casting (no wonder the thing feels so rigid and hewed-from-stone when you pick it up!). And the internals were absolutely pristine: the casing's so well sealed that when I opened it, there was not a speck of dust inside, and the circuit boards were gleaming like brand new. The manufacturing costs must have been considerable, and physically the internals are just gorgeous.
2) The connections are all power-related.
(This is something the experts here all already know, but I mention it in case a novice like myself ever comes across this post: before the Klout episode, I didn't understand why audiophiles talk so much about power supplies (after all, power is power, right?). But considering that all I did was clean off the contacts on the cables running from the transformer to the relay to the voltage selector and to the L&R channel power supplies -- and considering that my stereo now sounds far better than before -- it's clear now that power has a huge (HUGE!) effect on the sound. Again, old news to the folks on this forum, but I wasn't a believer before, and now I am. Call me converted. =)
3) My Klout must have lived in a humid environment before I purchased it.
It's a latest-version unit (2001-vintage), with literally not a mark on the outside, but as Music Lover pointed out, if the voltage selector had oxidized to the point that the amp quit, all the internal contacts were probably oxidized too. They were: the brass contacts on the piggy-back boards were clean, but all the white-metal power connectors had a visible colour change where the unplugging/replugging had cleaned things off. So the sound improvement on my Klout was probably much bigger than that experienced by the Topica posters who talked of Klout "servicing" in 2004.
4) There's much more treble than before.
The Classik has a tone control, and changing the treble settings has a much bigger effect on the sound (and on the non-Tune Dem feelings of "space" and "air") than was previously the case. That's one reason why I could hear a harpsichord that I didn't notice before: it was previously lost in the ensemble, but there's so much more (clean) treble now that the shimmering harpsichord notes are obvious, even amidst an orchestral forte.
5) A partial cleaning is worse than none at all.
When I first opened the Klout, I could get at all the connectors but one: the recalcitrant connector was the one deadended on the left-channel power supply, and I just couldn't reach it (on the right-channel, I could remove the piggyback board and gain access to the connector; the left-channel piggyback board would jam halfway out, and I feared breaking it). So I initially left that connector alone. Oh my, what a horrible sound! --
When I fired up the Klout after this initial "cleaning", there was a lot more treble alright -- but it was all in the right-hand channel! Although things just didn't sound right, at first I tried to persuade myself that it was all ok: after all, harpsichords sit on the right side of the orchestra, so maybe that just became more evident. But eventually I put on "An Excess of Pleasure" (Linn Records -- Palladian Ensemble; fantastic CD), where the violinist (Rachel Podger) stands on the left and a recorder player (Pamela Thorby) is on the right. And, oh my, that was just hideous....
Rachel Podger is one of the best early-music violinists around, and one of her many strengths is how she bows the notes so that each note - even in a complicated, rapid cascade - has a life and shape of its own. In prosaic, physics terms, that means (among other things) that she varies the bow pressure on each note so that (among other things) the mix of treble and midrange frequencies varies from the beginning of the note to the end. And with the right channel playing much more high treble than the left, that meant that on every note, Rachel Podger's violin was zooming left and right, left and right, smearing across the stage and occasionally landing on top of Pamela Thorby's recorder! It was absolutely weird (and extremely unpleasant).
Ooops -- work break is over. More later!
Klout Wrapup - Part 2
Ok, hopefully this'll finish things up!
5) (Continued)
Regarding the wandering violin with the half-cleaned Klout: I wasn't exaggerating when I said that the violin sometimes wound up on top of the recorder: on some notes, Rachel Podger would lift her bow after the initial attack, and draw across the string lightly enough to excite only the high overtones. When she did that, the initial attack would come from the center-left of the soundstage, and the harmonic decay would zing over to the far right (where Pamela Thorby was standing with her recorder). So the initial cleaning was not what one would call a success. =) Hence I wound up opening the Klout again to "clean" the recalcitrant left-channel connector (eventually, I found a way to grab hold of it without having to remove the piggyback board). After unplugging and replugging that connector, the Klout finally sounded wonderful.
6) Tune Dem (I think....)
To be honest, I have trouble with Tune Dem: on the web, the instructions are to sing along and to discern when it's easier or harder to follow the tune -- but in practice, I've never noticed much difference in tune-singing ease between different setups, and I've mostly been checking for whether or not I can discern internal vocal or instrumental lines. (Perhaps it's because of the choirs I've been singing in: there were some nice groups in university, but of late I've been in non-audition church choirs where......um......where effectively there's a great deal of disagreement as to what notes (or harmonies, or tempi, or dynamics, or pitch, rhythm, key, or mode) we're supposed to be singing -- in these choirs, my assigned role is to guess at the key we've flatted to and to hold the tenor line regardless of everything going on around me. After several years of this I probably have a completely tin ear(!), and in any case I'm finding any recorded work to be unbelievably easy to sing along with....) So Tune Dem, as it's usually described, is kind of a mythic art to me.
But(!) -- after the Klout cleanup, I finally noticed something that might qualify as real Tune Dem! Going back to the Palladian Ensemble CD (Excess of Pleasure): Pamela Thorby is acclaimed as one of the finest recorder players to be found anywhere, but on my original system I couldn't really hear why. True, she was fast, clean, and articulate -- but so are several other recorder soloists, and I couldn't hear what distinguishes her from the rest. But after I recleaned the Klout and loaded up the "Pleasure" disc, it suddenly became obvious. She rarely plays a note "straight" -- that is, instead of holding a steady pitch, she subtly inflects, ornaments, or graces almost every note that goes by, so that (just as with Rachel Podger's violin) the recorder line comes to exuberant life. On the "old" system, I simply didn't notice she was doing this (and when I go back to the Classik (without Klout), I can sort of hear it, but it's really tough to sing along to - sometimes I get the inflections right, sometimes I'm just guessing); with the cleaned Klout, it's clearly evident, and singing along to it is easy.
So (yay!) I'm finally learning some Tune Dem!
Anyway, there's much more about the cleaned up system that I really like (e.g., the music somehow sounds more exciting than before), but the bottom line is that this little Klout episode has been really instructive (and so beneficial! -- if my Klout hadn't stopped working in the first place, my system would not be sounding so much better now). It'll be a while before I develop the expertise to hear the nuances the rest of you all discuss concerning Unidisk 2.1, LP12, CD12, and the like (and probably a long, LONG while before I ever get to hear such high-end components!), but I have a better idea now what I'm shooting for -- which is nice!
Thanks for assisting in my education, everyone, and good luck with your (breathtakingly high-end!) systems. All the best!
- C
5) (Continued)
Regarding the wandering violin with the half-cleaned Klout: I wasn't exaggerating when I said that the violin sometimes wound up on top of the recorder: on some notes, Rachel Podger would lift her bow after the initial attack, and draw across the string lightly enough to excite only the high overtones. When she did that, the initial attack would come from the center-left of the soundstage, and the harmonic decay would zing over to the far right (where Pamela Thorby was standing with her recorder). So the initial cleaning was not what one would call a success. =) Hence I wound up opening the Klout again to "clean" the recalcitrant left-channel connector (eventually, I found a way to grab hold of it without having to remove the piggyback board). After unplugging and replugging that connector, the Klout finally sounded wonderful.
6) Tune Dem (I think....)
To be honest, I have trouble with Tune Dem: on the web, the instructions are to sing along and to discern when it's easier or harder to follow the tune -- but in practice, I've never noticed much difference in tune-singing ease between different setups, and I've mostly been checking for whether or not I can discern internal vocal or instrumental lines. (Perhaps it's because of the choirs I've been singing in: there were some nice groups in university, but of late I've been in non-audition church choirs where......um......where effectively there's a great deal of disagreement as to what notes (or harmonies, or tempi, or dynamics, or pitch, rhythm, key, or mode) we're supposed to be singing -- in these choirs, my assigned role is to guess at the key we've flatted to and to hold the tenor line regardless of everything going on around me. After several years of this I probably have a completely tin ear(!), and in any case I'm finding any recorded work to be unbelievably easy to sing along with....) So Tune Dem, as it's usually described, is kind of a mythic art to me.
But(!) -- after the Klout cleanup, I finally noticed something that might qualify as real Tune Dem! Going back to the Palladian Ensemble CD (Excess of Pleasure): Pamela Thorby is acclaimed as one of the finest recorder players to be found anywhere, but on my original system I couldn't really hear why. True, she was fast, clean, and articulate -- but so are several other recorder soloists, and I couldn't hear what distinguishes her from the rest. But after I recleaned the Klout and loaded up the "Pleasure" disc, it suddenly became obvious. She rarely plays a note "straight" -- that is, instead of holding a steady pitch, she subtly inflects, ornaments, or graces almost every note that goes by, so that (just as with Rachel Podger's violin) the recorder line comes to exuberant life. On the "old" system, I simply didn't notice she was doing this (and when I go back to the Classik (without Klout), I can sort of hear it, but it's really tough to sing along to - sometimes I get the inflections right, sometimes I'm just guessing); with the cleaned Klout, it's clearly evident, and singing along to it is easy.
So (yay!) I'm finally learning some Tune Dem!
Anyway, there's much more about the cleaned up system that I really like (e.g., the music somehow sounds more exciting than before), but the bottom line is that this little Klout episode has been really instructive (and so beneficial! -- if my Klout hadn't stopped working in the first place, my system would not be sounding so much better now). It'll be a while before I develop the expertise to hear the nuances the rest of you all discuss concerning Unidisk 2.1, LP12, CD12, and the like (and probably a long, LONG while before I ever get to hear such high-end components!), but I have a better idea now what I'm shooting for -- which is nice!
Thanks for assisting in my education, everyone, and good luck with your (breathtakingly high-end!) systems. All the best!
- C
Last edited by Ceilidh on 2007-05-30 13:49, edited 2 times in total.
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Music Lover
- Very active member
- Posts: 1673
- Joined: 2007-01-31 20:35
- Location: In front of Lejonklou/JBL/Ofil
Glad to hear that everything is working well and that you are enjoying the improvement in your Klout. I feel it is quite safe to say that you would have no problem hearing differences between a CD12 and UniDisk 1.1 or an Ekos and Ekos SE after reading your reaction to cleaning the internal connectors on your Klout. Many would describe the changes wrought by cleaning connectors as subtle, but as you can hear they can be very musically important.
Thanks for the kind words and have fun with the music.
Thanks for the kind words and have fun with the music.