Have I killed my Klout?

[Music Lover]

Many would describe the changes wrought by cleaning connectors as subtle, but as you can hear they can be very musically important.

OT
I have some difficulties understanding how an improvement can be subtle...
If you change anything, you either detect it or not. Not “yes perhaps slightly”.
If it’s better, it’s better.
People tend to forget that many small improvements make a huge difference.
Hence the importance of a perfect installation where all small aspects are considered and validated using tune dem!

I get the impression that people describing an improvement as subtle really saying "yes it was an improvement but it was not (for me) worth the extra money/effort"

[Ceilidh]

....it is quite safe to say that you would have no problem hearing differences between a CD12 and UniDisk 1.1 or an Ekos and Ekos SE after reading your reaction to cleaning the internal connectors on your Klout. Many would describe the changes wrought by cleaning connectors as subtle.....

Well, it's always quite possible that I'm "hearing" more than is actually there! I'm still new to all this, and it's only with experience (such as all of you have) that a person can learn consistency and perspective -- so I hope everyone is taking my comments with a grain of beginner's salt.

But bottom line, I'm very, very happy with my system now, and it's been a joy to listen to all my favorite CDs these past evenings. (And in the end, it's the music that counts, yes?) :D

Happy June, everyone!

-C

[ThomasOK]

Many would describe the changes wrought by cleaning connectors as subtle, but as you can hear they can be very musically important.

OT
I have some difficulties understanding how an improvement can be subtle...
If you change anything, you either detect it or not. Not “yes perhaps slightly”.
If it’s better, it’s better.
People tend to forget that many small improvements make a huge difference.
Hence the importance of a perfect installation where all small aspects are considered and validated using tune dem!

I get the impression that people describing an improvement as subtle really saying "yes it was an improvement but it was not (for me) worth the extra money/effort"

I certainly agree that in almost all cases "better is better" (although you might want to check the thread on UniDisk software updates to see a case where there are varying opinions on an "upgrade"). You might also note that I said "many would describe" not that I would.

However, I do believe that some changes, while they are definitely improvements, are obviously more subtle than others. Changing the direction of the fuse in an Ikemi to the proper direction gives a subtle improvement. Changing from a Mimik to an Ikemi is certainly anything but subtle (and going from any CD palyer to an LP12 is far from subtle).

I believe I am as aware as anyone of the importance of proper setup (as is Lejonklou) down to the point where I use extremely precise torque settings when setting up LP12s, speakers and even attaching plugs to AC cords! And these are all things that make an important improvement. But an improvement can be worthwhile and still be subtle. The important thing to me when discussing improvements gained from cleaning connections, orienting cables, positioning speakers, etc. is that the improvements are FREE so why would you not want to do them!

[lejonklou]

I agree with you, Thomas. But sometimes it takes a while before you can properly judge how big the improvement actually was. Detecting differences is one thing, judging the importance of it is something else.

When designing electronics, this becomes really important. Often I need to quickly determine whether a new idea brings a worthwhile improvement compared to the cost and time it might require to implement. More than once I have retried an old idea at a later date to see if it didn't show promise after all. Usually the first impression was right, though.

[sommerfee]

Another voodooing tip for the Klout: Remove the extra, unused fuse. I know that this sounds extremely silly, but please try it out before you laugh.

[springwood64]

A quick 'thanks' to Ceilidh for posting such a detailed report. I stumbled on this thread while looking for something else. I have a 10 year old Klout so I thought I'd try out the contact cleaning you described. And voila! I put on just 30 seconds of Yello to see if I could hear a difference and the impression was immediate. More - of everything. I'm looking forward to spending a bit more time listening to what I've been missing ....

Maybe I should consider poppop's suggestion of replacing the capacitors ...

[Music Lover]

Maybe I should consider poppop's suggestion of replacing the capacitors ...

Not sure that is a good idea.
I know Naimies like to recap their units but never heard anyone doing it on Linn amps.
Fredrik&Thomas - thoughts?

[lejonklou]

I have done some recap work and would like to say that the choice of capacitor makes a big difference. If you pick the wrong cap, it becomes a downgrade.

Either you should replace them with the original type - which I don't know whether it still exists - or you need to evaluate a bunch of caps to find the good ones. I don't have any specific recommendation for the Klout.

[springwood64]

I'll do some online research and see if I can dig up some concrete recommendations. I'm not skilled enough to experiment myself.

If anyone else is interested in cleaning the internal connections of the Klout, here's what I did in a little more detail:

My first approach was to use 'Kontak' electrical cleaner with a cotton bud:

1. First I removed the fuse and cleaned it and its contacts. There was some sign of oxidation on ends of the fuse but little around the outside.
2. I then removed the spade connectors attached to the power cable socket. These showed a lot of oxidation. The cotton bud and contact cleaner removed a fair amount of dirt from these.
3. I detached and cleaned the five 'prong' and socket connectors - one on each channel board and three on the 'front' board. These showed no obvious signs of oxidation. I could not get into the sockets so I just cleaned the prongs. There was no obvious sign that the contact cleaner removed anything.
4. Finally I turned the amp over and switched the voltage selector a few times. It was a bit stiff at first, but eased up gradually.
5. I reconnected the amp and played Pretenders 'Learning to Crawl', Yello and some Bowie. It sounded horrible. Although the bass had increased significantly, vocals sounded like they were being sung in a tin can. It was genuinely unpleasant to hear.

Second time around I decided to use some fine grade wet'n'dry to clean the contacts. I repeated the process above with wet'n'dry but no 'Kontak' and each time I removed a fair amount of fine dark 'stuff', enough to clog up the wet'n'dry. I paid much more attention this time to ensuring each contact was as clean as I could get it.

I then reconnected the amp, and the result is much much better. The lesson appears to be to take your time and ensure that the contacts really are as clean as possible. I'd guess that the reason it sounded so bad the first time around is that when reconnecting some contacts I'd actually increased the resistance of some contacts by moving from the old point of contact to a new point of contact with a higher degree of oxidation. It also seems that the 'Kontak' was not effective enough, since the wet'n'dry removed a lot of oxidation. Interestingly, the levels of oxidation were not even in the first place. The most badly affected contacts were the spade connectors, followed by the 6-pin connector on the 'front' board and the prongs on the right hand channel. The left hand channel showed no signs of oxidation at all.

[lejonklou]

I'll do some online research and see if I can dig up some concrete recommendations.

Beware of most recommendations! Be very sceptical and ask how they evaluated it. I'd check if Linn still stock the spare part first.

Thanks for the detailed description of the cleaning! I generally recommend careful mechanical cleaning and no fluids. Some fluids very clearly degrade the sound.

[poppop]

Frederik and all

The original caps were difficult to identify as they had the Linn logo on them - as Im sure you know.

A couple of years ago I had the boards on a klout renewed by Linn, and Im "fairly" sure they were Elna caps - but could definately be wrong!

When I had 3 klouts active, all three had the caps replaced with Aerovox - as another conversation Fredrik, these were chosen on the basis of a recommendation from Les W.

Steve.

[lejonklou]

The original caps were difficult to identify as they had the Linn logo on them - as Im sure you know.

Yes, that's true. My idea was to check with Linn if they are available from them. Sometimes they don't charge a fortune for spare parts.

When I had 3 klouts active, all three had the caps replaced with Aerovox

There are some really good ELNA and Aerovox/BHC caps to be found. Linn used BHC caps in many of their older models.

The problem is that there is no specific model that is best for all applications. To make a proper selection, one has to first select a bunch based on specifications, then compare them in the application and preferably also use them for a while to know if the performance remains stable. Linn's safety recall of all LK240, 5105, 5150 and Melodiks were due to a capacitor that would fail catastrophically (blow up) over time.

Since you were so pleased with your renovations, Steve, you obviously got capacitors that worked well in the Klout. I just wanted to point out that recapping is not always a success.

[matthias]

Hello,

recently I recapped my Exposure 4DR Power Amp with four EPCOS SIKOREL caps. Very expensive, very good.

matthias