New firmware for DS: Bute

SaltyDog · Post by **SaltyDog** » 2009-04-20 21:03

The ADS can load 1000 songs with LinnGui. SongBook and PlugPlayer fall short.

sommerfee · Post by **sommerfee** » 2009-04-20 21:06

Linnofil wrote:Does anybody know if it's true that with a Bute DS, one can only add 50 tracks at one time?

Yes, it's true. An application needs to do several calls of the so called "PlaylistInsert" UPnP action, splitting the long playlist into several pieces of max. 50 tracks. There is also a limit in the other direction, with Auskerry and Bute one can only read the meta data of 50 tracks at one time.

BTW: With Cara one can only add 1 track at one time :lol:

Is that why my Plugplayer crasches when I try to add a lot of tracks?

Even when the developer is not aware of that (undocumented :roll: ) limit, the application should not crash but showing an error message instead since in this case "PlaylistInsert" returns with an error. So maybe it's a combination of both - 50 track limit and PlugPlayer fails in handling this error condition correctly.

Is this a limit in Bute or a limit in the mobile/iPod apps?

It's a limit in Bute.

What happens in the Linn GUI or Leia DS?

For LeiaDS just take a look at the function Media_PlaylistInsert() in src/princess/linn_source.c :lol: (It splits the playlist in pieces.)

Maybe Axel knows this?

Who is Axel? :mrgreen:

Linnofil · Post by **Linnofil** » 2009-04-20 22:16

sommerfee wrote:
Linnofil wrote:Does anybody know if it's true that with a Bute DS, one can only add 50 tracks at one time?
Yes, it's true. An application needs to do several calls of the so called "PlaylistInsert" UPnP action, splitting the long playlist into several pieces of max. 50 tracks. There is also a limit in the other direction, with Auskerry and Bute one can only read the meta data of 50 tracks at one time.

BTW: With Cara one can only add 1 track at one time :lol:

Very interesting! Thanks a lot for the info. I knew this was the right forum to ask questions in! :D It should be an improvement in Cara, The limit is so obvious that it has to be taken care of. :P (BTW: How does Cara make the DS sound? Any better than Bute 06/09?)

sommerfee wrote:
Is that why my Plugplayer crasches when I try to add a lot of tracks?
Even when the developer is not aware of that (undocumented :roll: ) limit, the application should not crash but showing an error message instead since in this case "PlaylistInsert" returns with an error. So maybe it's a combination of both - 50 track limit and PlugPlayer fails in handling this error condition correctly.

I agree. But this is a rather serious thing to not have documented! :shock: It is actually the main reason why my wife wants the CD player back again... Everytime she makes the effort to try and use the "stupid computer music thingy" iPod/PlugPlayer she tries to add a lot of albums. (So that she doesn't have to use it again soon) and it crasches every time! It happens to me a lot to. I never figured out the exacy limit. I seamed a bit random to me. I just new that when I tried to add "a lot" it failed and if i tried "a little" it worked. It was especially annoing when selecting (>50!) individual tracks from different albums and see the PP crash! This often happened when I was in a good mode, trying to play a lot of great tracks! Well, not in a great mood for long... :evil:

sommerfee wrote:
What happens in the Linn GUI or Leia DS?
For LeiaDS just take a look at the function Media_PlaylistInsert() in src/princess/linn_source.c :lol: (It splits the playlist in pieces.)

Great work! Thats the proper way to do it, obviously! Maybe I'm using the wrong HW/SW? :)

sommerfee wrote:Who is Axel? :mrgreen:

I dunno sommerfee, do you? :)

sommerfee · Post by **sommerfee** » 2009-04-21 08:33

Linnofil wrote:(BTW: How does Cara make the DS sound? Any better than Bute 06/09?)

Since I cannot add tracks to the DS using LeiaDS (yet), I cannot tell. (But deleting tracks or clearing the whole playlist is already implemented :lol: ) But I will do a closer listen as soon as LeiaDS is functional with Cara - hopefully next week-end. Afterwards I will revert to Bute anyway (to see if LeiaDS still works fine with Bute), so I will do a "sound" comparison, too.

(Furthermore I currently test a new switch, the Netgear GS105v3. Will report soon.)

But this is a rather serious thing to not have documented!

Auskerry & Bute are very poorly documented anyway. (I had to find out very many things on my own). The documentation of Cara is - even in its current unfinished state - very much better.

Maybe I'm using the wrong HW/SW? :)

In my eyes: Yes. But in my eyes the Nokia N8x0 is the wrong HW, too. And so LeiaDS is the wrong SW, too. :shock: Why? The operating system of the Nokia N8x0 isn't designed for user-friendly and especially finger-friendly applications - it's pen device for people with very good eyes. (For that reason I put the most important functions (adding albums or tracks to the playlist, skipping tracks, pause/play, switching between browser/playlist/now-playing and volume) to the hard keys, but there are only on top on the N800 device which isn't available as new anymore. The N810 have this hard keys beside the keyboard :roll: ) Well, you can write user-friendly applications for the N8x0, but in this case you have to write most of the relevant code on your own which takes a lot of time. (If I had chosen this way LeiaDS would have a beautiful interface now, but no functionality :lol: )

Regarding the iPod: I don't like all the restrictions for both, developer and end-user. And I cannot understand why the applications are not allowed to use the cover-flow stuff from Apple. It's a cool device, yes, but coolness does not make my DS play :mrgreen:

The upcoming Nokia N9xx looks promising, we will see how good it will be. BTW: Nokia was so shocked about the iPod that they dropped the plan to release the next operating system but are working on the next-next operating system instead.

The Pandora platform also looks promising in my eyes. It's a gaming console but all the hard keys and game pads would make it a joy selecting albums and tracks. 8) If I had the money and especially the time I would make a port of LeiaDS right now.

BTW: What about the HP and KinskyPDA? Unfortunately I have no experience with this, but it looks promising to me and should work fine.

sommerfee wrote:Who is Axel? :mrgreen:
I dunno sommerfee, do you? :)

I just told my cats but they insist calling me Meow.

Regards,
Meow

P.S.: The actual version of LeiaDS contains a Swedish UI as well

Update: Within the last months I quite changed my mind. I really like having hard keys for the most basic functions and the Nokia N800 has them. So I can skip to the next track etc. without even looking at the screen. When I tried using an iPhone with iPeng instead I really missed them very deeply.

Music Lover · Post by **Music Lover** » 2009-04-21 08:58

Linnofil wrote: Maybe I'm using the wrong HW/SW? :)

Kinsky Desktop running like a dream on my thinkpad

sommerfee · Post by **sommerfee** » 2009-05-10 16:42

Linnofil wrote:(BTW: How does Cara make the DS sound? Any better than Bute 06/09?)

Finally I had some time to compare the latest Cara developer release 3.1.12 with Bute 1.1-0.4 (07/2008) and 1.1-0.7 (09/2008) on my SneakyDS. The result:

The Cara software seems to sound exactly like the latest Bute 09/2008 one with no buffer padding (which is the default setting). So Bute from 07/2008 is still the best here.

So it seems that Linn is taking the same road for the DS devices as they have done in the past for the Unidisks: New firmware versions are adopted to the latest hardware and therefore sound worse on older hardware !? :roll:

But maybe the Cara stuff only sounds worse because it's a developer release with debug stuff inside!? So let's stay fair and wait for the first Beta release and take a further listen then...