Linn Bananas

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Re: Re:

Post by lejonklou » 2018-02-12 07:25

Sound Hound wrote:Hi Frederik. I'm guessing you have tried "Z-plugs" (hollow BFA type) and would like to know what you think of them? They appear to be pretty flimsy, but I've seen them used in an instructional video entitled "Terminating K400 (and K600) Speaker Cable" and so thought they might be worth considering?
Hi Sound Hound!

Yes, I've tried several brands of the hollow tube type connectors. Retailers often like them because they fit both BFA's and banana jacks, which is practical (less resoldering of cables when the customer upgrades the amps).

None of them have been any good and they've sounded pretty much the same: Bright, shrill and hollow. Deltron 550 is much better. Unfortunately the 550 appears to always be silver plated these days, which is not so good. The original tin plating sounded best.

And Linn's Knekt is now made in a new alloy, which looks better but sounds worse than the old one.

All in all, cables and connectors are in a bit of a mess at the moment. I can't think of anything that's improved in the last two decades.

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Re: Linn Bananas

Post by Sound Hound » 2018-02-12 15:17

Thanks Frederik. Too bad, things haven't gotten any better on the plug front. I had aquired 8 Zplugs to make up a pair of K200 (2.48m of course!) to compare with my Knekt pair, but I shall now kick that plan into touch. I can't imagine it being all that easy to source tin plated 550's - but at least it'll keep me out of mischief for a while ;-)

Meanwhile, if Sunbeamgls is reading this thread, it'd be interesting to hear his thoughts on the effect of plugs on a system's performance, and indeed which one's he found performs best?

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Re: Linn Bananas

Post by Linnjim » 2018-04-12 11:43

Hello

I recently bought some Linn Knekt plugs and plan to solder them on to k400 soon.
I was just wondering if the best practise is to double over the tip of the wire before placing it into the Knekt?
Also is it best to then crimp the outer cup of the Knekt before soldering?

Thanks

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Re: Linn Bananas

Post by Sopper » 2018-04-13 07:36

Linnjim wrote:Hello

I recently bought some Linn Knekt plugs and plan to solder them on to k400 soon.
I was just wondering if the best practise is to double over the tip of the wire before placing it into the Knekt?
Also is it best to then crimp the outer cup of the Knekt before soldering?

Thanks
No and no
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New Knekts vs New (or old) 550s

Post by tokenbrit » 2018-04-20 02:14

lejonklou wrote:And Linn's Knekt is now made in a new alloy, which looks better but sounds worse than the old one.

All in all, cables and connectors are in a bit of a mess at the moment. I can't think of anything that's improved in the last two decades.
Hi Fredrik. The original recommendation was Knekt (best) or Deltron 550 (2nd) with all else not really worthy of recommendation, it seemed. Now we have new Knekt and 'new' 550s - is the recommendation & ranking still the same with Knekt preferred over 550s even though they are each (slightly?) worse than their predecessors?

I need to get a couple of 2.48m runs of K400 made and doubt that I can source 12 pairs of the older type Knekts. Not sure how I'd go about trying to find the older type 550s either...

Of the bananas that are currently generally available, are the new Knekts still the best even if they are a hefty premium over new Deltron 550s? Just wondering if the musical gap is bigger now that the 550s are silver plated, or have the Knekts come down in performance by a similar amount to maintain the gap?

Thanks.

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Re: Linn Bananas

Post by tokenbrit » 2018-05-10 19:14

When did Linn switch to the new alloy, does anyone know? Trying to gauge how long a dealer would need to have had them in stock to be confident that the Knekts are the older style... Thks.

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Re: New Knekts vs New (or old) 550s

Post by lejonklou » 2018-05-11 01:11

tokenbrit wrote:
lejonklou wrote:And Linn's Knekt is now made in a new alloy, which looks better but sounds worse than the old one.

All in all, cables and connectors are in a bit of a mess at the moment. I can't think of anything that's improved in the last two decades.
Hi Fredrik. The original recommendation was Knekt (best) or Deltron 550 (2nd) with all else not really worthy of recommendation, it seemed. Now we have new Knekt and 'new' 550s - is the recommendation & ranking still the same with Knekt preferred over 550s even though they are each (slightly?) worse than their predecessors?

I need to get a couple of 2.48m runs of K400 made and doubt that I can source 12 pairs of the older type Knekts. Not sure how I'd go about trying to find the older type 550s either...

Of the bananas that are currently generally available, are the new Knekts still the best even if they are a hefty premium over new Deltron 550s? Just wondering if the musical gap is bigger now that the 550s are silver plated, or have the Knekts come down in performance by a similar amount to maintain the gap?
Apologies for the late reply, tokenbrit! The simple answer is that I don't know for sure, but my guess is that Knekt is still superior to Deltron 550.

I'm always on the lookout for a better connector, but haven't spent much time testing the recommendations I've received. I have two new untested connectors on my bench that I ordered but haven't listened to yet. Maybe this summer, when I'm done testing the pile of new components that's on my other bench (there's currently a stream of exciting new high performance components, with very specific high frequency properties due to their intended use in mobile phones and tablets, that are being released by all the major component manufacturers).
tokenbrit wrote:When did Linn switch to the new alloy, does anyone know? Trying to gauge how long a dealer would need to have had them in stock to be confident that the Knekts are the older style... Thks.
A few years ago is the best answer I can give.

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Re: Linn Bananas

Post by tokenbrit » 2018-05-16 00:04

Thanks Fredrik. I have found 12 of the old Knekts - just need 4 more... Will post in the Wanted section.

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Re: New Knekts vs New (or old) 550s

Post by Sopper » 2018-05-16 06:51

tokenbrit wrote:
lejonklou wrote:
the 550s are silver plated
The 579 are still tin plated
Edit: Nickel, sorry
Last edited by Sopper on 2018-05-16 15:04, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New Knekts vs New (or old) 550s

Post by lejonklou » 2018-05-16 08:38

Sopper wrote:
tokenbrit wrote:
lejonklou wrote:
the 550s are silver plated
The 579 are still tin plated
Where do you find that?

I find them in nickel, silver and gold.

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Re: New Knekts vs New (or old) 550s

Post by Sopper » 2018-05-16 14:59

lejonklou wrote: Where do you find that?

I find them in nickel, silver and gold.
My bad... nickel plated it seems.
Sorry for the confusing
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Re: New Knekts vs New (or old) 550s

Post by lejonklou » 2018-05-16 15:57

Sopper wrote:
lejonklou wrote: Where do you find that?

I find them in nickel, silver and gold.
My bad... nickel plated it seems.
Sorry for the confusing
OK!

I've tested most platings on various types of connectors and it's quite odd but they do each have a certain sound character.

Tin plating sounds dry and simple, but as it rubs off quite easily, its effect decreases with time and use. Well worn it often sounds really musical.

Nickel plating sounds metallic, hard and a bit harsh.

Gold plating sounds soft and "nice" in an ingratiating high resolution-way.

Silver plating has an odd effect on high frequencies, which appear sparkly but untimed. Usually the worst of these four.

Rhodium I have too little experience with to have a clear opinion about.

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Re: Linn Bananas

Post by Sopper » 2018-05-16 17:46

Tin plated banana plugs do exist though
Is Tin plated always better? Or are there other factors contributing to the sound?
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Re: Linn Bananas

Post by lejonklou » 2018-05-16 18:03

Sopper wrote:Tin plated banana plugs do exist though
Is Tin plated always better? Or are there other factors contributing to the sound?
Other factors matter more.

It's only when you have the exact same plug or jack or connector with different platings that you can make a valid comparison between the platings. And which plating sounds overall best on a certain connector, well that requires a comparison.

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Re: New Knekts vs New (or old) 550s

Post by matthias » 2018-05-16 22:19

lejonklou wrote: I've tested most platings on various types of connectors and it's quite odd but they do each have a certain sound character.
Fredrik,
does it then make sense to remove the plating with very fine grain sand paper?

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Re: New Knekts vs New (or old) 550s

Post by lejonklou » 2018-05-17 00:07

matthias wrote:
lejonklou wrote: I've tested most platings on various types of connectors and it's quite odd but they do each have a certain sound character.
Fredrik,
does it then make sense to remove the plating with very fine grain sand paper?

Matt
Yes, on some connectors that works! But not on all.

I used to have a favorite AC mains plug, which had nickel plated brass pins. That plug sounded better with the nickel almost gone (which happened by itself if you plugged and unplugged it enough times, but a little sand paper worked too).

I also had a favorite gold plated RCA connector that went out of production long ago (I still have a small batch left which will be used on special products) on which the gold wore off rather quickly. At first I was disappointed with this - apparently the plating was very thin - but then I found that it sounded better when it was a bit worn. I'm unsure whether this one would benefit from sanding, as it then looses all the lubricating properties of gold and becomes squeaky when plugging in an RCA plug. It will also corrode more and will need more regular unplugging and plugging action to keep the electrical connection optimal.

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Re: Linn Bananas

Post by THRaKeD » 2019-12-02 08:02

Hi,
I have Siltech's solder.
At what temperature I should solder K400 with Deltron 550 nickel plated plugins?

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Re: Linn Bananas

Post by lejonklou » 2019-12-04 11:19

THRaKeD wrote:
2019-12-02 08:02
Hi,
I have Siltech's solder.
At what temperature I should solder K400 with Deltron 550 nickel plated plugins?
Hi THRaKeD!

I have no idea. What temperature does Siltech advise you to use? I'd stick to that.

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Re: Linn Bananas

Post by THRaKeD » 2019-12-04 16:44

Thank you for your reply.
I did not know what determines the temperature: wire or solder.
Once again thank you for your answer.

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Re: Linn Bananas

Post by lejonklou » 2019-12-04 17:23

THRaKeD wrote:
2019-12-04 16:44
Thank you for your reply.
I did not know what determines the temperature: wire or solder.
Once again thank you for your answer.
Wire or solder? I assume you have bought a solder wire.

The alloy used will have a melting point. That determines a range for the tip temperature.

The flux used will have a range of temperature within which it works as intended (strong enough action and duration of time).

What I call the optimal temperature is something that varies with the solder wire used, pen power and tip size, and the mass and heat loss of the joint. Once you set those parameters, it has to be determined by ear. That means I solder a lot of identical joints (usually using a cable) with various tip temperatures and listen to them. The most musical sounding temperature wins.

Currently I'm soldering rather thin wires inside a Boazu, using a lead-free solder wire and a tip that's a short 4.6 mm wide chisel shape (Weller LT-B). Optimal tip temperature for this is 349 degrees Celcius with this station. The one in the room next door is 3 degrees off and should be set to 352 degrees.

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Re: Linn Bananas

Post by THRaKeD » 2019-12-05 08:51

Sorry for my english, it's not my native language.
By the wire I meant the K400 cable.
Anyway your explanation is very helpful.
Thank you so much.

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Re: Linn Bananas

Post by lejonklou » 2019-12-05 09:10

THRaKeD wrote:
2019-12-05 08:51
By the wire I meant the K400 cable.
Aha, of course! I should have understood that.

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Re: Linn Bananas

Post by donuk » 2019-12-05 12:42

I will just add this to the mix from an overcast beautiful downtown York.

Firstly Season's greetings to my friends here.

Secondly - those of you near York and in touch with Hamish at the Sound Organisation, do chat to him about his latest "find". He has been stocking the skeletal Z type plugs for some time and has said they are good.
Now he has sourced something that looks similar, gold plated still, possibly slightly sturdier and from a different supplier. I do not know what brand they are. But they are rather good - says much better. He also swears they sound better if you solder the cable to the little tab and not by poking it into the barrel. (And of course putting some heat-shrink on to stop it looking horrible!)

Each to his own, I pass this information on just for interest - but I like them.

Cheers Donuk.
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