Do I need a sub? or is something else wrong?

[christian]

Hi

I have kind of a problem in my system that I am seeking advice for.

The problem is that as soon as as I move out of my listening position, which is in front of my speakers with a wall behind my chair, the music gets worse. I have not previously felt this to this extent and it all started when I changed my speakers to the Klimax 320A. Previously I had Aktiv Espeks. Last week I worked with my LPs for a few long nights carrying them to a table in the listening room and sorting them and deciding if I should keep or get rid of a few. Anyway when I found an LP that I wasn't sure what do make of, I played it. Standing at the dinner table in the room for the most part I thought “well this is not really that good, I get rid of it”. Then I realized that if I moved to my listening position feelings changed and I thought “I might just hang on to this for a while longer”. As you can tell this was not any theoretical, analytical tests, while sorting the records I just wanted to have something to listen to. This means to me that as the theoretical brain was sort off shut off, the feelings where very much active and usually concerning music feelings are correct.

I might add that the system is installed by a very experienced Linn dealer and while he was installing the speakers he also noticed that the music became worse as soon as you moved out of the listening position.

This fall I have upgraded the LP12 with Klyde and Urika and also got an used KK. The recent upgrades has not changed this situation, it rather feels that it is now even more evident.

The room is about 35 m2 and leads out to two corridors. I have never thought that I had too much bass so I believe that the room “draws much bass”.

Anyway when I sit in my listening position I think that the wall behind my back is giving me support for the bass because in that position I can hear basslines that are hidden elsewhere in the room. So the conclusion that I have come up with is that the problem above depends on that bass is not heard with the right volume in the whole room. Does this makes sense? Or is this a normal problem when you have a better playback, as said before I never noticed this before I changed the speakers.

To address this I am thinking on adding a sub bass. I realize that the Klimax 345A is a good but rather expensive choice. Perhaps one or two of the new Akurate sub also would work?

Also I am really interested in finding out what the REL range of subs can do as they seem to be really good value especially used. I have searched this forum and seen a few references to the Rel subs. I am very grateful for any advice concerning those (It seems that Lejonklou has installed at least one and TomasOK have a lot of experience with them) So thanks for your comments!

I might also add that although I really love my speakers there are certain things that I miss from the Espek days. I know that there are deep bass on some records that is impossible to hear right now, so also from that perspective adding a sub makes sense.

Best regards
Christian

[Tendaberry]

The amount of perceived bass always varies depending on where you listen. I have the same thing with my 242's. Especially if your listening position is close to a rear wall, it can boost the bass a lot. I wouldn't recommend such a position. My position is about 60 cm away from a rear wall and that's ok for me.

The 320's are superb speakers, but of course even better with a proper sub. The Klimax 345 is definitely the one I would recommend in your case. Don't think you'd be happy with an Akurate sub in the long run. The 345 even adds to the performance of the 350A's.

Bjorn

PS. An Akiva also would give you the improvement you're looking for plus a lot more...

[SaltyDog]

What is on the wall behind your listening position? Might consider something that absorbs sound.

Or just sit and do nothing

[Tony Tune-age]

In some situations, room furnishings can have an impact on sound, and in my case it impacted the bass frequencies. My original sofa and chair were a thick padded type of furniture with a soft material covering.

During a listening session, a friend of mine (former Linn Technician) noticed an issue with some of my bass frequencies. We eventually realized that my furniture could be impacting the sound. So, long story short, I pulled out the sofa and chair to see if my system would sound better...and much to my surprise it did sound better. In fact, all the frequencies were better sounding, not just the bass.

At that point, I sold my old furniture and purchased new leather furniture. With the leather furniture in my room, the system sounds way better than it did with the thick padded type of furniture. And as it turns out, the room looks better now also 8) .

[ThomasOK]

Bass performance definitely varies from room to room and also at different positions within a room. Some rooms are certainly worse than others in their variations in supporting good bass reproduction. I know of one room where even with the $10,000 top REL sub there was almost no bass at the preferred seating position. In the end the room had to be rearranged with the system moved onto a different wall in oreder to have good bass reproduction - there was just an almost total bass null at the original seating position no matter where you placed the sub.

Unfortunately, because of this I really can't give a concrete answer to your question. It is certainly possible, maybe even likely, that a good sub would allow you to even out the bass throughout the room, but it is not certain. If you have the ability to borrow an appropriate sub and try it at home, that is your best bet.

As to which sub to try that will elicit different recommendations. Fredrik is not a fan of REL subs and I am not a fan of Linn subs (one of our rare areas of disagreement). To be fair I have not heard a system set up by Fredrik with a Linn sub, nor have I heard a 345 - either Artikulat or Klimax. On the other hand Fredrik has never heard a system I have set up with a REL sub and I am certainly quite happy with mine. If you are interested in a REL sub I would recommend going at least with a B series, preferrably a B2 or a B1, as they are definitely more musical than the R or T series and a better match for your speakers. A Stentor 3 would also work well but it is a much larger and more expensive unit, although still less than a K345. As a B1 can keep up just fine with my large ATCs it will certainly be enough for your 320s and is somewhat of a sweet spot in performance for the money. In addition REL is coming out with new models very soon (which I haven't heard yet) and the B series is being discontinued so you may be able to get a good deal on one.

[SaltyDog]

Has anyone spent any time with an ATC sub? Any thoughts?

[Tony Tune-age]

Has anyone spent any time with an ATC sub? Any thoughts?

No direct experience, but have read various articles and written opinions. And as might be expected, opinions have been varied.

[christian]

Thanks for all the replies!

I will start by borrowing a sub and see what that does. Also I might consider a different positioning in the room.

Or just sit and do nothing

Right now I am doing just that, Got Diana Krall "Live in Paris" on the mail today. Double vinyl - sounds great.
Thanks

[Music Lover]

To address this I am thinking on adding a sub bass. I realize that the Klimax 345A is a good but rather expensive choice. Perhaps one or two of the new Akurate sub also would work?

Heard the new A226 sub the other week and it was quite good actually. A lot more power and precision than the old 221.
Ultimately you should test with a 345 and two 226 in your room.
Start with one 226, add one and finally use only one 345.
That would give you a baseline for the decision.

[ledcam]

Hi Christian, we have aktiv 350's partnered with 2 B&W 850's. What you describe about bass troughs is absolutely right. We had to move our system about a bit to get it right.

Sometimes we noticed it sounded great but at a point a few feet above the seated listening position :roll:

At some points of the room there is very little bass but we have now managed to get it right for our listening position but it took a fair amount of experimentation. Have fun!

[christian]

Ultimately you should test with a 345 and two 226 in your room.
Start with one 226, add one and finally use only one 345.
That would give you a baseline for the decision.

Easy in theory but not so easy to achieve in real life. Anyway thanks.

Since I started this thread I have gotten real curious about the ATC range of speakers. To move to larger full range speakers might also be an option (and I really think that the price for the K350A is totally impossible, I would never spend that much on the playback. Only reason for the K320 is that at one point I had an offer that I couldn't resist.) I have already had some fine advice from ThomasOK concerning ATC.

Does anyone know if it is possible to audition ATC in Sweden?

[Lemmy]

Does anyone know if it is possible to audition ATC in Sweden?

Arva Trading should be able to help you: http://www.arva.se/atc_hifi_start.htm
However, I think they only carry the Entry series, not the larger models.

[christian]

Does anyone know if it is possible to audition ATC in Sweden?

Arva Trading should be able to help you: http://www.arva.se/atc_hifi_start.htm
However, I think they only carry the Entry series, not the larger models.

Thanks, actually I sent an email to them in the beginning of the week, but no reply. I guess they don't want to sell :|

[christian]

Does anyone know if it is possible to audition ATC in Sweden?

Arva Trading should be able to help you: http://www.arva.se/atc_hifi_start.htm
However, I think they only carry the Entry series, not the larger models.

Thanks, actually I sent an email to them in the beginning of the week, but no reply. I guess they don't want to sell :|

I got answer from Arva. They have SCM-50 (don't know which model) for audition in Solna :)