Is a loudspeaker a musical instrument?

[Spannko]

It’s a hotly debated topic on the forums, I’m just wondering what people round here think about the idea of a loudspeaker being likened to a musical instrument?

[matthias]

You can say a musical instrument is the medium to show the performance of the artist.
So the loudspeaker is a musical instrument to show the performance of the devices upstream to it.

[Rutger]

It’s a hotly debated topic on the forums, I’m just wondering what people round here think about the idea of a loudspeaker being likened to a musical instrument?

The stereo system is a very flawed one, so stereo loudspeakers need some euphonic colorations to deliver a believable soundstage and better perceived pitch.

The frequency response is not going to be completely flat in a good stereo loudspeaker. You often need a elevated level between 1-2 kHz, + 2 dB, Q=3. This is because the distance between our two ears, the wavelength cancels some of the sound centered at 1,5 - 1,7 kHz.

The lower tones must be in tune with the higher register in a loudspeaker. And the loudspeaker resonanses must sound tuneful with no tunefork colorations.

[springwood64]

I'm not sure of the value of the question 😉

Having read the Encyclopedia Britannica definition of Musical Instrument, I think the loudspeaker can only be considered a component of a musical instrument, or of replay. It's not an instrument in its own right.

Why ask?

[Whatsmynaim]

Sure. One could argue that speakers are instruments from how they produce sounds and melodies. It's an interesting topic, but how much does it matter?

And the whole thing with some speakers being specifically made to be like an instrument with the cabinet made of thin wood and using no damping materials.

But then we have weird stuff like the JERN speaker which sounds great. So who cares if it's an instrument or not? What really matters is how good the speaker is at preserving the musical message it's being fed.

[Rutger]

It’s a hotly debated topic on the forums, I’m just wondering what people round here think about the idea of a loudspeaker being likened to a musical instrument?

You can study the Linn Tukan as a reference mark in how to build a good standmount speaker . If you open up the box there are some surprises inside . Crawford did a lot to avoid that the front baffle and rear wall had the same resonance frequency, using kustone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sy-xzovEqIM

[Spannko]

I'm not sure of the value of the question 😉

What do you mean? 😉

[Spannko]

You can say a musical instrument is the medium to show the performance of the artist.
So the loudspeaker is a musical instrument to show the performance of the devices upstream to it.

That’s an interesting thought Matthias! Can you expand on that?

[Spannko]

It’s a hotly debated topic on the forums, I’m just wondering what people round here think about the idea of a loudspeaker being likened to a musical instrument?

The frequency response is not going to be completely flat in a good stereo loudspeaker. You often need a elevated level between 1-2 kHz, + 2 dB, Q=3. This is because the distance between our two ears, the wavelength cancels some of the sound centered at 1,5 - 1,7 kHz.

I’ve not heard of this before Rutger. How did you hear of it? The reason I ask is because the BBC thought exactly the opposite! They thought a 2-3dB dip between 1000Hz and 3000Hz was preferable. I’m not saying that I agree with the BBC - just interested.

[Spannko]

What really matters is how good the speaker is at preserving the musical message it's being fed.

I think we’d all agree with that. Do you think this can be achieved by thinking of the loudspeaker as being like a musical instrument, or it best achieved by thinking of a loudspeaker being like a scientific instrument?

[springwood64]

I'm not sure of the value of the question 😉

What do you mean? 😉

I think you've indicated the value of the question in the post above.

I guess you are interested from the perspective of designing speakers.

[matthias]

The loudspeaker is the audio device with the biggest compromises. Its design reflects perfectly the preferences of the designer and the choice of a certain speaker reflects perfectly the preferences of the customer. So it is a rather subjective device for both the designer and the customer. The more subjective it is the more the tendency to hyperbole. And calling it a musical instrument might be some sort of hyperbole.

[Rutger]

It’s a hotly debated topic on the forums, I’m just wondering what people round here think about the idea of a loudspeaker being likened to a musical instrument?

The frequency response is not going to be completely flat in a good stereo loudspeaker. You often need a elevated level between 1-2 kHz, + 2 dB, Q=3. This is because the distance between our two ears, the wavelength cancels some of the sound centered at 1,5 - 1,7 kHz.

I’ve not heard of this before Rutger. How did you hear of it? The reason I ask is because the BBC thought exactly the opposite! They thought a 2-3dB dip between 1000Hz and 3000Hz was preferable. I’m not saying that I agree with the BBC - just interested.

I dont believe that the BBC dip is the way to find the holy grail. Many speakers in -70 did perform bad at the crossover region and the BBC dip made them sound ” nicer” , but at the same time taking away some of the important energy in the music.

The Linn Tukan didnt have any BBC dip at all, but an elevated response between 1-3 kHz - i.e. almost the opposite of the BBC dip. ( look at stereophiles measurements ).

[Spannko]

It’s a hotly debated topic on the forums, I’m just wondering what people round here think about the idea of a loudspeaker being likened to a musical instrument?

You can study the Linn Tukan as a reference mark in how to build a good standmount speaker . If you open up the box there are some surprises inside . Crawford did a lot to avoid that the front baffle and rear wall had the same resonance frequency, using kustone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sy-xzovEqIM

Thanks Rutger, I’ll check out the video.

[Spannko]

The frequency response is not going to be completely flat in a good stereo loudspeaker. You often need a elevated level between 1-2 kHz, + 2 dB, Q=3. This is because the distance between our two ears, the wavelength cancels some of the sound centered at 1,5 - 1,7 kHz.

I’ve not heard of this before Rutger. How did you hear of it? The reason I ask is because the BBC thought exactly the opposite! They thought a 2-3dB dip between 1000Hz and 3000Hz was preferable. I’m not saying that I agree with the BBC - just interested.

I dont believe that the BBC dip is the way to find the holy grail. Many speakers in -70 did perform bad at the crossover region and the BBC dip made them sound ” nicer” , but at the same time taking away some of the important energy in the music.

The Linn Tukan didnt have any BBC dip at all, but an elevated response between 1-3 kHz - i.e. almost the opposite of the BBC dip. ( look at stereophiles measurements ).

Are you saying that you think musical energy exists in the 1-3kHz range?

[Spannko]

The loudspeaker is the audio device with the biggest compromises. Its design reflects perfectly the preferences of the designer and the choice of a certain speaker reflects perfectly the preferences of the customer. So it is a rather subjective device for both the designer and the customer. The more subjective it is the more the tendency to hyperbole. And calling it a musical instrument might be some sort of hyperbole.

So, if a loudspeaker isn’t a musical instrument, what is it?

[Whatsmynaim]

Do you think this can be achieved by thinking of the loudspeaker as being like a musical instrument, or it best achieved by thinking of a loudspeaker being like a scientific instrument?

I rather fancy the thought of speakers being a scientific instrument.
Like for example the JBL 308P/708P which only gives you what you feed them. That's a very strong case for not having any aspiration to be a musical instrument. Just add the best source you can find and let the speakers give you the raw unfiltered truth.

Speakers designed to be a certain way can still be very musical but is mostly there as an option to please a subjective taste.

[Spannko]

Do you think this can be achieved by thinking of the loudspeaker as being like a musical instrument, or it best achieved by thinking of a loudspeaker being like a scientific instrument?

I rather fancy the thought of speakers being a scientific instrument.
Like for example the JBL 308P/708P which only gives you what you feed them. That's a very strong case for not having any aspiration to be a musical instrument. Just add the best source you can find and let the speakers give you the raw unfiltered truth.

Speakers designed to be a certain way can still be very musical but is mostly there as an option to please a subjective taste.

If they’re intended to be scientific instruments, then surely most of them have failed miserably! Otherwise, they wouldn’t all sound so different from one another.

On the other hand, if they’re intended to be musical instruments, most of them have also failed miserably!

So, if loudspeakers don’t qualify as scientific instruments, and don’t qualify as musical instruments, what are they?

[ThomasOK]

I can't get behind the idea of a speaker as a musical instrument. A musical instrument is designed to produce music. It can be designed to have a lovely tone like a violin from a master builder or to have a harsh tone like a guitar and amplifier setup for death metal.

A speaker needs to be able to play both that violin and the guitar and give you a proper rendition of whatever music you want to play. It has to reproduce music of all types. So I'm more along the lines of it being a scientific instrument. However, I don't like using that terminology as that makes it sound like you can just design it to certain measurements and you are OK. A speaker is still a compromise, just as all audio equipment is. In many ways it is even more of a compromise as it has to work in a room and move air. It is a combination of mechanics, electronics and acoustics so there is a lot to optimize and clever compromise is a must, all of which requires very good ears. I do believe a speaker should allow you to hear the music as true and natural as possible, just as with any other part of the chain. I also certainly don't believe there is any sense in raising a certain frequency range to compensate for the distance between our ears. That distance is there when listening to live music so whatever change it makes is part of what we normally hear and shouldn't be compensated for unless you want unnatural sound.

[tokenbrit]

Arguably it's not a musical instrument until the electrical signal has been turned into audio, so the cabinet could be thought of as a musical instrument not unlike a bass, a cello, a guitar, but they create music*; a loudspeaker converts. And what about electrostatics that don't have a cabinet?

* Ok, the musician creates the music through their expertise with that instrument. It's difficult to see how that really equates to a loudspeaker being a musical instrument.

"A rose by any other name would smell as sweet" - maybe not as sweet if it's not musical ;) It only matters what it's called or identified as being - scientific, musical, even whether it's an instrument - if that somehow changes how it's designed &/or used. Some loudspeaker (& hifi electronics) designers might benefit if they thought of all the components in the chain as akin to musical instruments, and 'tuned' them as such rather than just measuring artifacts other than the quality (quantity?) of the music they convey or convert.

🤷‍♂️

[lejonklou]

I'd say loudspeakers are converters of electrical signals to sound waves.

Calling them scientific instruments is weird. Science is used to design them, instruments they are not. What is an instrument? A tool or a measuring device. A musical instrument is a tool for making music. A loudspeaker isn't making music, it's a converter.

+1 on Thomas' post!

[tpetsch]

[Tony Tune-age]

Thanks for posting "tpetsch," that answers that question!

Cheers

[Spannko]

Thanks for posting "tpetsch," that answers that question!

Not so fast Tone!

Do musical instruments “make music”? Do loudspeakers “make music”?

[matthias]

Do musical instruments “make music”? Do loudspeakers “make music”?

Does a complete audio set-up "make music"?
So audio devices are musical instruments?