Linn products/service discontinued Spring 2010

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Linn products/service discontinued Spring 2010

Post by ThomasOK »

Linn have just announced the discontinuance of a few products:

The Komri is no longer. Production has ceased and no more are available. Linn has said that the Klimax range are the replacements without actually stating that they are better. I wonder if there is any chance of a Klimax 370 to truly outperform the Komri?

The Sekret in-wall speakers are being discontinued at the end of February.

And in a move that comes as a bit of a surprise the Majik Kontrol is being discontinued at the end of March! Linn are saying that the interest in the Majik-I and Majik DS-I have overshadowed the Kontrol. It does seem a bit funny to me that Linn now have a series of five different power amps with no "matching" preamp. One of the problems with this "series" naming system. More troubling is that Linn will then only have one true stereo preamp in the line.

How about Linn removing the (mostly unused) DA circuitry form the Akurate Kontrol and bringing the price down a couple thousand dollars? While they are at it an Akurate Kontrol DS, with Akurate DS circuitry instead of the DA board but at a similar price would be a total winner!

In related news Linn has also announced the end of service on several products:

AV5103
Classik-T
Classik Movie 1.5 (below serial number 842092)
AV5101 Handset (remote control)
Kivor Tunboks (below serial number 998756)
Kivor Index (below serial number 990740)

Somehow it seems somewhat shameful that Linn have stopped service of products that were in production as late as January 2007. Not to mention they bear the founders name! Since Linn has a five year parts warranty on items that are registered with them I wonder how they get around this with the Kivor products?

Service availability on these items ends the beginning of March.
Last edited by ThomasOK on 2010-02-11 20:27, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Tony Tune-age »

Wow, that is radikal - but not in a good way... :(
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Post by davestp1 »

Not surprising. Used to be 'music for life' and in their catalogues and ads they shouted out that their products could always be upgraded etc etc etc....Now it appears to be just another product.
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Post by Tony Tune-age »

Thomas, does this mean Linn is deviating from their philosophy of "Music for Life?" Or perhaps Linn is experiencing serious financial trouble?

A company called Audio Research has many products which were released to the consumer years ago, but they are still being serviced if needed, and many of these products can still be upgraded as well. Too bad Linn doesn't share that company policy :( .
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Post by ThomasOK »

I don't think that "Music for Life" was ever meant to indicate that their products would last your lifetime - that would be a hard claim for anyone to make. Although it does remind me of a travel clock I was once sent for free with a magazine subscription. The clock was listed as having a "Lifetime" warranty. When I received the cheap piece of plastic i noted that it had a 90 day warranty. How could they get by with this seeming blatant lie? Very simply the brand of the travel clock was "Lifetime" so any warranty they gave you was a "Lifetime" warranty! :( I no longer subscribe to that magazine!

I understand that with modern equipment, almost all of which are forced to use parts that the equipment manufacturer has no control over (DACs, processor chips, clock chips, etc.), it sometimes becomes impossible to get parts so repair can't be offered indefinitely. And I know that surface mount gear is more difficult to service.

That being said it must be noted that Linn once had one of the best reputations for customer support in the industry with long service life of their products and the tendency to make upgrades available as new technologies or solutions gave improved sound. While I feel Linn has regained some of that reputation with the various upgrades coming out over the last few years (Radikal, Dynamik, KK audio board, Klimax speaker upgrades, etc.) in terms of long service life they have really fallen badly behind. While companies like Bryston give a 20 year warranty on their Analog products (only 5 years on Digital circuits - once again the specter of parts availability being beyond their control) Linn has discontinued service on over 20 products in less than the last two years! Since several of these products were still being manufactured 5 or less years before the end of servicing it is a short service life indeed.

This type of apparently cavalier attitude towards their existing customers could cause them significant PR problems (possibly even a lawsuit or two). Think of the customer who purchased a full Kivor system 4 years ago and had their Kivor Tunboks or Kivor Index break down. These are people who spent at least $13,000US and in some cases over $25,000US on just the Kivor part of their setup and they won't even be able too get a repair after 3 or 4 years?! If word of that gets around to the general public how many people do you think are going to want to risk spending $18,500 on a Klimax DS, $13,500 on a Klimax Kontrol, over $25,000 on a pair of Klimax Solos or even $2975 on a Majik-I? I know we live in a throw away society but the items people are throwing away after a few years are $150 iPods and $200 (or $40) DVD players. When they spend thousands on a piece of quality stereo equipment they expect they should still be able to be using it 10 or 15 years from now. They certainly expect they should be able to get it serviced in 5 years. Think what a stir it would cause if Ford stopped making service available on a car they were still manufacturing 3 or 4 years ago - there would be protestors at their doors and class-action lawsuits on their desks the day after the announcement! Linn should be happy they are a small enough company for this kind of stuff to slither under the radar, but if they keep it up some government agency (or some wealthy Linn-owning lawyer) is going to call them on the carpet for it.
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Post by Tony Tune-age »

Very well stated Thomas. No doubt I'll be even more carful in the future, as it pertains to purchasing additional Linn audio components. I have been thinking about buying a new preamplifier, but now I'll will wait for awhile longer before making a final decision. Hopefully, they won't turn their backs on the Sondek :!:
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Post by Tony Tune-age »

By the way Thomas, what five Linn power amplifiers that now have no matching preamplifier? I can only think of one... :?:
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Post by rowlandhills »

Majik 2100, 3100, 4100, 5100 & 6100! :)
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Post by Music Lover »

ThomasOK wrote: Think what a stir it would cause if Ford stopped making service available on a car they were still manufacturing 3 or 4 years ago - there would be protestors at their doors and class-action lawsuits on their desks the day after the announcement! Linn should be happy they are a small enough company for this kind of stuff to slither under the radar, but if they keep it up some government agency (or some wealthy Linn-owning lawyer) is going to call them on the carpet for it.
Thomas, even if I agree that Linn should support old products, lets not compare with the auto industry where you have regulations/laws that dictate a certain lowest level of support (spare parts, maintenance etc) and as soon the years have passed they quickly get rid of (destroy actually) the spare part stock due to HUGE expense.
To my knowledge no such regulation is present in the HIFI business and where did Linn promised X years support?
So where do you have a case against Linn?
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Post by Charlie1 »

I wonder if the Dynamik was not released for the MK cos they had this in mind some months ago or is the MK really just a the same as an AK bar PSU, thereby making them the same product if you change the PSU to dynamik.

Presume they are streamlining to keep costs down. Komri has been on the cards for ages - they just had parts to use up in the mean time.

Who was the chap that ran Linn whilst Ivor was ill? Did he instigate the Kivor system - not really familiar with it and what it does.

Linn do seem to have regained focus since Ivor returned and now Gilad is in charge. Hopefully they will be a bit less frivolous with future products. I quite like the Majik/Akurate/Klimax branding now even though it doesn't aid building the best system within a budget.

Glad I sold my MK a couple of years ago. No doubt the prices will take a hit now.

That was a bit of a ramble - sorry
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Post by ThomasOK »

Music Lover wrote:
ThomasOK wrote: Think what a stir it would cause if Ford stopped making service available on a car they were still manufacturing 3 or 4 years ago - there would be protestors at their doors and class-action lawsuits on their desks the day after the announcement! Linn should be happy they are a small enough company for this kind of stuff to slither under the radar, but if they keep it up some government agency (or some wealthy Linn-owning lawyer) is going to call them on the carpet for it.
Thomas, even if I agree that Linn should support old products, lets not compare with the auto industry where you have regulations/laws that dictate a certain lowest level of support (spare parts, maintenance etc) and as soon the years have passed they quickly get rid of (destroy actually) the spare part stock due to HUGE expense.
To my knowledge no such regulation is present in the HIFI business and where did Linn promised X years support?
So where do you have a case against Linn?
Linn has a five year parts warranty on registered products so I would think there would be grounds right there for products less than five years old. Also isn't there some length of service availability mandated by the EU for electronics? (I thought I'd heard about something like this but I'm certainly not sure.)
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Post by ThomasOK »

Charlie1 wrote:I wonder if the Dynamik was not released for the MK cos they had this in mind some months ago or is the MK really just a the same as an AK bar PSU, thereby making them the same product if you change the PSU to dynamik.
We were just discussing this here in the store. The Majik Kontrol has the same audio board as the Akurate Kontrol although there may be some component differences as there are between the AK and the Kinos. It has been a long time since I was inside them so I can't say for sure. However, it has long been felt by many that the main difference between them is the lesser power supply in the MK. If this is the case you could see why they wouldn't want to put a Dynamik in the MK as it would kill sales of the AK. (How many people really want to pay that extra money for the DACs for DTS and DD?)

The other question is: Is the Majik Kontrol/Majik 2100 combo actually better than the Majik-I anymore? Since the Majik-I was close to the MK/2100 to start with and it has now been upgraded with the Dynamik it is possible that the integrated actually outperforms the separates. After all in the integrated the preamp stage gets the benefit of the Dynamik even though it shares it with the amp. It may be enough to change the musical ranking of these units.

I have not been able to do this comparison so I can't really say but it is an interesting thought. Has anyone here been able to make this comparison?

Back on the servicing question, I don't want anyone to think that I am about to undertake a big Linn selloff. You can have my Black KK/1/D when you pry it out of my dead, cold hands! :wink: The same goes for my Radikal LP12. Linn is still far better than most high-end companies in terms of long product life, developing retro-fit upgrades rather than just new models and releasing new products and updates that are actually better than their predecessors. (One only has to look at the Lexicon BluRay player to see what some other companies consider product development to entail!) I still find most Linn products to be the best performing units at their price point and in most cases well above them and I still find the Kilmax electronics and the top LP12 to be the most musical products I have heard, period. It is just that Linn was once considered one of the top companies in terms of supporting their products regardless of age, doing things like a custom run of grills for the Isobarik and SARA speakers and, more recently, a replacement midrange for the Keltik. With this rather large string of unsupported products Linn appears to be falling into the second rank compared to some others in the industry.
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Post by Tony Tune-age »

I don't think Audio Research has stopped repairing any of their older components (if requested by a customer). However, most of their audio components are tube (maybe all tube), which might be easier to repair. But in any case, it's a good company policy and people usually feel good about buying their products :) .
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Post by vicdiaz »

Tony Tune-age wrote:I don't think Audio Research has stopped repairing any of their older components (if requested by a customer).
Neither Naim Audio. A friend sent them a bolt-on case NAP250 (very old if not one of the first NAP250 amps) for repair (no sound on one channel) and they basically replace ALL the discrete components on the board and it was certified to be performing better than new due to higher tolerance components. What he paid was a fraction of what he would need to pull out from his pocket to buy a new NAP250.
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Post by vicdiaz »

vicdiaz wrote:
Tony Tune-age wrote:I don't think Audio Research has stopped repairing any of their older components (if requested by a customer).
Neither Naim Audio. A friend sent them his bolt-on case NAP250 (very old if not one of the first NAP250 amps) for repair (no sound on one channel) and they basically replaced ALL the discrete components on the board and it was certified to be performing better than new due to higher tolerance components. What he paid was a fraction of what he would need to pull out from his pocket to buy a new NAP250.
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Post by ThomasOK »

vicdiaz wrote:
Tony Tune-age wrote:I don't think Audio Research has stopped repairing any of their older components (if requested by a customer).
Neither Naim Audio. A friend sent them a bolt-on case NAP250 (very old if not one of the first NAP250 amps) for repair (no sound on one channel) and they basically replace ALL the discrete components on the board and it was certified to be performing better than new due to higher tolerance components. What he paid was a fraction of what he would need to pull out from his pocket to buy a new NAP250.
Just to play devil's advocate here I have to say that both Audio Research and Naim Audio have units for which they do not supply service. These are mostly CD players as they have the same problems the rest of the industry have with parts becoming unavailable over time. In addition saying that Naim will still repair an early NAP 250 is like saying Linn will still repair an early LP12 - they are both models that are still in production! There would certainly be something wrong if they weren't still repairable.
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Post by Music Lover »

ThomasOK wrote: Linn has a five year parts warranty on registered products so I would think there would be grounds right there for products less than five years old. Also isn't there some length of service availability mandated by the EU for electronics? (I thought I'd heard about something like this but I'm certainly not sure.)
yes the 5y warranty is still valid but do you really think anybody bought a Kivor system less than 5y ago? Or that Linn failed to check in their dbase before stopping the support?

Besides, it's likely less costly to offer the few Kivor owners a brand new KDS as replacement unit than continue supporting Kivor... :wink:
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Post by vicdiaz »

ThomasOK wrote:
vicdiaz wrote:
Tony Tune-age wrote:I don't think Audio Research has stopped repairing any of their older components (if requested by a customer).
Neither Naim Audio. A friend sent them a bolt-on case NAP250 (very old if not one of the first NAP250 amps) for repair (no sound on one channel) and they basically replace ALL the discrete components on the board and it was certified to be performing better than new due to higher tolerance components. What he paid was a fraction of what he would need to pull out from his pocket to buy a new NAP250.
Just to play devil's advocate here I have to say that both Audio Research and Naim Audio have units for which they do not supply service. These are mostly CD players as they have the same problems the rest of the industry have with parts becoming unavailable over time. In addition saying that Naim will still repair an early NAP 250 is like saying Linn will still repair an early LP12 - they are both models that are still in production! There would certainly be something wrong if they weren't still repairable.
On the mechanical parts availability issue I agree, but for most of their older products they still repair them, but there are non-production products (like the NAC12 preamp) that they still repair or is still repairable. I maybe wrong but I don't think Linn still repairs LK1 and LK2/275/280s.

Linn is not the only vendor not repairing their older products. For example, I have a very good condition Cyrus One integrated amp which still performs flawlessly except for the power switch. I've sent more than enough e-mails to Cyrus trying to find out who was the parts supplier for the switch and have not received any replies from them. Other Cyrus owner I know have commented that they will not even try to repair it. Still working on how to find the switch vendor or a replacement.

My concern is that if a vendor makes a product that is built to stand the test of time (I'm not talking about Sony, Panasonic or Bose here!!! :mrgreen:), it should at the minimum try to repair it and the best example that you've given is Bryston.
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Post by vicdiaz »

vicdiaz wrote:
ThomasOK wrote:
vicdiaz wrote: Neither Naim Audio. A friend sent them a bolt-on case NAP250 (very old if not one of the first NAP250 amps) for repair (no sound on one channel) and they basically replace ALL the discrete components on the board and it was certified to be performing better than new due to higher tolerance components. What he paid was a fraction of what he would need to pull out from his pocket to buy a new NAP250.
Just to play devil's advocate here I have to say that both Audio Research and Naim Audio have units for which they do not supply service. These are mostly CD players as they have the same problems the rest of the industry have with parts becoming unavailable over time. In addition saying that Naim will still repair an early NAP 250 is like saying Linn will still repair an early LP12 - they are both models that are still in production! There would certainly be something wrong if they weren't still repairable.
On the mechanical parts availability issue I agree, but for most of their older products they still repair them, but there are non-production products (like the NAC12 preamp) that they still repair or is still repairable. I maybe wrong but I don't think Linn still repairs LK1 and LK2/275/280s. Old kit repair is not part of their current business model but customer satisfaction and retention is an aspect to be seriously taken in consideration for repeat business. Not everyone can swap their whole audio system or parts of it every 5 years just to keep their system or individual components under warranty.

Linn is not the only vendor not repairing their older products. For example, I have a very good condition Cyrus One integrated amp which still performs flawlessly except for the power switch. I've sent more than enough e-mails to Cyrus trying to find out who was the parts supplier for the switch and have not received any replies from them. Other Cyrus owner I know have commented that they will not even try to repair it. Still working on how to find the switch vendor or a replacement.

My concern is that if a vendor makes a product that is built to stand the test of time (I'm not talking about Sony, Panasonic or Bose here!!! :mrgreen:), it should at the minimum try to repair it and the best example that you've given is Bryston.
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Post by Tony Tune-age »

Audio Research will repair and upgrade components well over fifteen years old (CD players could be an exception), which includes their original line of products. They won't customize an audio component, or repair any audio component which has been worked on by unauthorized service providers. But they will repair all phono preamplifiers, preamplifiers, and power amplifiers - as long as Audio Research is still conducting business. Good stuff indeed! 8)

http://www.audioresearch.com/service.html
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Post by ThomasOK »

I certainly agree with the sentiments in these posts, as is obvious from the wording of my original post. I just didn't want people to think that nobody but Linn has had to discontinue service on any products. With so much of the Hi-Fi gear out there being controlled by microprocessors and using other chips and the fast pace of development in the chip business the vast majority of companies are having to deal with repair parts becoming unavailable over time and it isn't likely to get any better in the near future. It is enough to almost make you want to go back to a Marantz Model 7C/Model 9 combo - but not quite considering how much better the newer Linn gear sounds.

Vic is correct that Linn no longer service LK1/LK2/LK280 and it is also true there is no reason they couldn't. While the LK1 is microprocessor controlled it is rarely the microprocessor that goes bad. The rest of the LK1 and LK2 series amps are certainly still repairable by a good technician willing to take the time. I know Fredrik does some repairs on unsupported Linn components as do a few others and I have done the odd LK1/LK2 series repair myself. So Linn could offer this service if they chose to and it is certainly to the credit of Naim, Audio Research, Bryston and others that they still do work on their older products.
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Post by ThomasOK »

Music Lover wrote:
ThomasOK wrote: Linn has a five year parts warranty on registered products so I would think there would be grounds right there for products less than five years old. Also isn't there some length of service availability mandated by the EU for electronics? (I thought I'd heard about something like this but I'm certainly not sure.)
yes the 5y warranty is still valid but do you really think anybody bought a Kivor system less than 5y ago? Or that Linn failed to check in their dbase before stopping the support?

Besides, it's likely less costly to offer the few Kivor owners a brand new KDS as replacement unit than continue supporting Kivor... :wink:
I doubt that MANY people bought Kivor systems less than 5 years ago but, according to the Linn service EOL notice, the Kivors mentioned were manufactured through January 2007! And there was definitely no mention of giving anybody a free anything, much less a KDS, as a replacement for their no longer repairable unit. :(

Linn does say that the customer could take the unit to "an independent repairer" to have it serviced but this is no easy task. Since Linn do all the normal service themselves or through trained distributors there are not the substantial numbers of trained service people out there that you can send an Arcam or NAD piece to. Hardly anyone knows how to service Linn electronics and fewer still have training in doing so from Linn. And how much luck do you think you'll have if you try to get a schematic for an LK280 or an Isobarik Aktiv Crossover (to name two components I've seen go into the dumpster in the last couple of years)?
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Post by Tony Tune-age »

Linn has conducted repairs and sonic upgrades on some of my components over the years, which were reasonably priced. And they gave me 100% trade-in value, when I exchanged my Linn Basic turntable with Basic Plus tonearm, for a Sondek turntable and Akito tonearm :!: So, they are still very much a quality audio company in my opinion 8).
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Post by rowlandhills »

In my opinion, once companies stop servicing a product they should be obliged to release schematics to allow independent repairs. If they don't want to release schematics (for example if they feel the IP is too valuable) then all they need to do is service the equipment!
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Post by lejonklou »

I agree with you on that one, rowlandhills!
Music Lover wrote:Besides, it's likely less costly to offer the few Kivor owners a brand new KDS as replacement unit than continue supporting Kivor... :wink:
This was an interesting comment, ML. Sounds generous, do you think Linn will actually do that?
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