LP12 50: If Jony Ive made record players...

[Charlie1]

It's been suggested on the Linn WAM site that it's because the Keel is trashed if someone over-tightens the collar bolts. but I doubt Linn care too much about second hand Keels so surely that is more of a dealer training issue.

[matss]

Maybe Linn have something up their own sleeve requiring a different arm collar?

[Defender]

Maybe Linn have something up their own sleeve requiring a different arm collar?

yes but wouldnt that mean that all who would want to upgrade to what is in their own sleeve would need a new KEEL

[Ianw]

But it's supposed to be a no-compromise premium product, and certainly has a correspondingly high price tag. It's also gone up in cost over 60% since I bought mine in 2007. They also mill the aluminium in house whereas not sure that was the case originally. I appreciate manufacturing costs have gone up a lot since then too.

Keel used to be sub- contracted to SME for machining.

[Charlie1]

I knew they anodised them but didn't know they did the machining as well - makes sense. As you probably know, someone else does the anodising now and the finish is very slightly different (blacker?). All I remember is that I slightly preferred the look of the newer ones.

[matss]

yes but wouldnt that mean that all who would want to upgrade to what is in their own sleeve would need a new KEEL

Of course, but if this turns out to be real maybe Linn could offer a modification to existing Keels as they did for fitting dynamiks to early Klimax twins.

[Spannko]

The sound of Linn today:

https://youtu.be/nQMayb-uYyU

Also, https://youtu.be/NipYH9jfki4

[Whatsmynaim]

Is this really what Linn sounds like nowadays, or is it just examples of a bad setup?

[Defender]

it didnt sound too bad at the HighEnd this year in Munich but that does not mean that it impressed me - there have been more musical speakers presented on the event.

[Spannko]

Here’s 360’s set up by Linn.

https://youtu.be/EgvVhwQI0gc

[quinn_t]

Is this really what Linn sounds like nowadays, or is it just examples of a bad setup?

I was gobsmacked when I listened to the passive Linn 360s, in the flesh, driven by 6 Solos, last Sunday, demo'ed by Gilad, in one word, wow!

I have never heard the depth, the layering, instrument timbres, separations were that good, and I can clearly hear the singers' breath on some tracks, so incredible, so musical !!!

[Charlie1]

That last clip with them setup by Linn were very impressive, especially the last track - reminded me of the Naim Statement amps at the Bristol show a few years ago with great big Focal speakers. Musically, I'm not really hearing anything particularly special, but would like to hear them for real.

[matthias]

Here’s 360’s set up by Linn.
https://youtu.be/EgvVhwQI0gc

I was there in room, I found it inferior to a good set-up with 3677s at a fraction of that price.

[Matteo]

Here’s 360’s set up by Linn.

https://youtu.be/EgvVhwQI0gc

This set up seems to sound very good

The price though ...

[lindsayt]

Here’s 360’s set up by Linn.
https://youtu.be/EgvVhwQI0gc

I was there in room, I found it inferior to a good set-up with 3677s at a fraction of that price.

It's the high efficiency large woofered thing vs the low efficiency medium-sized woofered thing.

Just goes to show, an extremely high retail price doesn't mean anything - when it comes to sound quality - if the design is barking up the wrong tree.

[matthias]

I would describe the sound signature of the 360s as "polite".
All music played back with these speakers at HE Munich sounded somewhat similar.

[matthias]

low efficiency

Yes, 87dB/Watt/m

[ThomasOK]

Although we have gotten a little off topic here, there is a video file posted above I wanted to address so I'll carry us a little further off...

I find it the video posted by Spannko very interesting for a couple of reasons. One is that the second track, a streamed one is a pretty "audiophile" type of piece and one that Linn used in Glasgow and that it has "surface noise" recorded as part of the track. But what really caught my attention was the choice of the record for the first track. That is "Little Sister", a cover of an Elvis tune by Ry Cooder off the album "Bop Till You Drop". This album is quite famous, although more infamous to music lovers, as it was the first ever digitally recorded pop album on the market coming out in 1979. As such it quickly developed a reputation for not sounding all that good. Some reviewers noted that the rather potent rhythm section sounded a bit weak compared to what they would have expected and Ry Cooder himself blamed the less that stellar recording on the (obviously quite early) digital recording technology. Somehow it seems a strange choice to me to show off the LP12 because certainly anyone around of my age is aware of the quality (or lack thereof) of that album.

With that I thought I'd do a little illustration to see what you all think. So I made a clip of the same track on my system after a solid warmup of the LP12 which I am posting here:

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/tm9sh18s ... 54ikm&dl=0

I don't think it sounds particularly good, even on my system, but it is interesting for comparison. For that I have a second clip off the same system just about a dozen minutes later. This is also Ry Cooder but from the really excellent album, both musically and sonically, entitled simply "Jazz", which was released only a year earlier in 1978. The track is "Big Bad Bill Is Sweet William Now" an old blues piece also covered later by Van Halen in a very atypical piece for them. I chose it mostly because it is cool, one of the few on that album with lyrics and the lyrics start quickly. It is also the first track on side one, as is "Little Sister". Have fun.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/tajaa3sx ... edf47&dl=0

[Charlie1]

The first track is quite well known over here. It does sound a bit odd somehow but much more engaging on your clip.

[quinn_t]

I was particularly impressed by this track "In spite of ourselves, John Prine/Iris DeMent", demo'ed by Gilad last Sunday, I could hear and feel as if DeMnet was breathing down my neck, it was that real!

[lindsayt]

Although we have gotten a little off topic here, there is a video file posted above I wanted to address so I'll carry us a little further off...

I find it the video posted by Spannko very interesting for a couple of reasons. One is that the second track, a streamed one is a pretty "audiophile" type of piece and one that Linn used in Glasgow and that it has "surface noise" recorded as part of the track. But what really caught my attention was the choice of the record for the first track. That is "Little Sister", a cover of an Elvis tune by Ry Cooder off the album "Bop Till You Drop". This album is quite famous, although more infamous to music lovers, as it was the first ever digitally recorded pop album on the market coming out in 1979. As such it quickly developed a reputation for not sounding all that good. Some reviewers noted that the rather potent rhythm section sounded a bit weak compared to what they would have expected and Ry Cooder himself blamed the less that stellar recording on the (obviously quite early) digital recording technology. Somehow it seems a strange choice to me to show off the LP12 because certainly anyone around of my age is aware of the quality (or lack thereof) of that album.

With that I thought I'd do a little illustration to see what you all think. So I made a clip of the same track on my system after a solid warmup of the LP12 which I am posting here:

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/tm9sh18s ... 54ikm&dl=0

I don't think it sounds particularly good, even on my system, but it is interesting for comparison. For that I have a second clip off the same system just about a dozen minutes later. This is also Ry Cooder but from the really excellent album, both musically and sonically, entitled simply "Jazz", which was released only a year earlier in 1978. The track is "Big Bad Bill Is Sweet William Now" an old blues piece also covered later by Van Halen in a very atypical piece for them. I chose it mostly because it is cool, one of the few on that album with lyrics and the lyrics start quickly. It is also the first track on side one, as is "Little Sister". Have fun.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/tajaa3sx ... edf47&dl=0

With Bop Till You Drop, it is easy to hear the early digital artifacts.
However as a recording, I find it far better than 99% of 21st century mainstream recordings - because it hasn't been dynamically compressed to high heaven.
A DR of 15 is quite respectable.
https://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list ... der&album=
Placing it at dynamic heights that can only be dreamed of for the vast majority of modern stuff.

I find the dynamic compression on Coldplay, Adele, London Grammar etc to detract far more from the tunefulness than the digital artifacts on that Ry Cooder album.

There's a similar thing when comparing low efficiency slimline ported speakers, such as Linn's 360's to decently designed and engineered high efficiency speakers, such as JBL 3677's. The high efficiency speakers may not be perfect in hi-fi terms, but they do offer a fresher, more alive reproduction of the music.

[matthias]

dynamic compression

Sorry for OT but interesting that even ECM Records use it. I am wondering how their records would sound without it.

[lindsayt]

dynamic compression

Sorry for OT but interesting that even ECM Records use it. I am wondering how their records would sound without it.

Better.

[Spannko]

dynamic compression

Sorry for OT but interesting that even ECM Records use it. I am wondering how their records would sound without it.

Better.

Do you have any examples of albums recorded without compression, lindsayt?

[lindsayt]

There are loads of examples of albums that have been remastered with more compression being used than earlier versions.

The more compressed versions have always sounded worse (with appropriate adjustment to the volume knob when comparing each version).

It's impossible for me to say if any of my albums have absolutely zero compression, because I don't have the live version to compare against. Or the pseudo live, stitched together version for studio albums.

And I'm not familiar with the exact equipment that the signal passed through at the recording stage. With it being possible, for example, that the microphones used had some dynamic compressive effect.

What is clear is that there's an easy to hear difference between dark green DR rating albums and pale green. With that difference becoming album spoiling when comparing dark green with yellow and a "turn that horrible row off" when comparing dark green with red.

It's possible that Rickie Lee Jones Flying Cowboys (DR of 17) on CD used zero conscious dynamic compression.

Try a few albums with DR's of 17 or above. See what you think.
https://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list/1/dr/desc