LP12 50: If Jony Ive made record players...

[quinn_t]

An entertaining read:

https://www.ft.com/content/9f1402af-d5d ... 78543961ea



https://www.linn.co.uk/us/blog/the-stor ... ek-lp12-50

[quinn_t]

Just attended the newly released linn 360 speakers’ demo by Gilad in the SF Bay Area today. He told us the 250 lp12-50s had already been sold out.

[Charlie1]

I assume that's to dealers. Naim Solstice sold out quickly to dealers as well but there are still plenty discounted for sale. Less likely the LP12 50 will struggle like that though.

[Ianw]

I assume that's to dealers. Naim Solstice sold out quickly to dealers as well but there are still plenty discounted for sale. Less likely the LP12 50 will struggle like that though.

Situation is different with the 50 LP12 The buyer has first to complete an-line form via a dealer.

[Charlie1]

OK, tx.

I see it's still open for orders though.

[Matteo]

Just attended the newly released linn 360 speakers’ demo by Gilad in the SF Bay Area today. He told us the 250 lp12-50s had already been sold out.

Propaganda?

[quinn_t]

The only reason I can think of is Linn want to sell more than 250?

[Robert Lake]

Just attended the newly released linn 360 speakers’ demo by Gilad in the SF Bay Area today. He told us the 250 lp12-50s had already been sold out.

Propaganda?

Yes, I find it hard to belive. Some years ago I heard that Linn was selling just one LP12 per week. The costumer base for this product typically have a full spec LP12 already why should they trade it in just for more fancy model? On the other hand, Linn has a loyal base of oligarchs and IT billionaires so maybe they know exatly what they are doing.

[Charlie1]

This was shared on the WAM forum.

Looks like the Ekos collar is no longer part of a single machined piece of aluminium.

I don't understand why they would do this...

[Spannko]

I thought this comment from Gilad was quite interesting:

“While the peerlessness of the LP12 is broadly agreed upon, the reasons for it are not. Audiophiles talk about the “pace, rhythm and timing” the LP12 supposedly bestows upon music, but Tiefenbrun refutes what he calls “magic dust”. “You’ve got the recording, which to all intents and purposes is perfect,” he says. “Hi-fi systems generally make that recording worse, because they put bits of tech in the way of what you want to hear. But we just strive to eliminate noise and distortion from the signal path.”

Recordings perfect? What a ridiculous comment!

It appears to be yet another indication that Linn have moved away from ensuring musicality is baked into their products. Their targets are now low noise and distortion, even though there’s absolutely no evidence to support the idea that lowering noise and distortion has any relationship to increased musical enjoyment.

The lunatics have well and truly taken over the asylum!

[sunbeamgls]

It appears to be yet another indication that Linn have moved away from ensuring musicality is baked into their products. Their targets are now low noise and distortion, even though there’s absolutely no evidence to support the idea that lowering noise and distortion has any relationship to increased musical enjoyment.

I think this kind of comment is aimed at those who would understand what it means to remove noise and distortion, not necessarily at those who have exposure to tune dem etc. There's a fine line for companies to address their market without sounding snobbish or elitist. I'm not, of course, suggesting that those who understand tune dem are snobbish nor elitist, its just that the press material needs to be consumable by a very wide audience.

I haven't heard the LP12-50 yet, it will be interesting to experience if musicality is diminished or improved.

[matthias]

I don't understand why they would do this...

Cost savings, they need a much slimmer piece of alumunium and need only one basic Keel for different tonearms.

[Charlie1]

But it's supposed to be a no-compromise premium product, and certainly has a correspondingly high price tag. It's also gone up in cost over 60% since I bought mine in 2007. They also mill the aluminium in house whereas not sure that was the case originally. I appreciate manufacturing costs have gone up a lot since then too.

[Spannko]

I think this kind of comment is aimed at those who would understand what it means to remove noise and distortion

Surely, this comment is a bit paradoxical? What does it mean to remove noise and distortion in equipment whose primary purpose is to reproduce music? As far as I’m aware, no measure of noise or distortion has ever been correlated with a component’s ability to reproduce music in a harmonious manner, therefore no one knows what it means to reduce noise and distortion, therefore the comment is aimed at no one!

[matthias]

But it's supposed to be a no-compromise premium product, and certainly has a correspondingly high price tag. It's also gone up in cost over 60% since I bought mine in 2007. They also mill the aluminium in house whereas not sure that was the case originally. I appreciate manufacturing costs have gone up a lot since then too.

I get your point but Linn are a profit motivated company, more than ever!

[sunbeamgls]

I think this kind of comment is aimed at those who would understand what it means to remove noise and distortion

Surely, this comment is a bit paradoxical? What does it mean to remove noise and distortion in equipment whose primary purpose is to reproduce music? As far as I’m aware, no measure of noise or distortion has ever been correlated with a component’s ability to reproduce music in a harmonious manner, therefore no one knows what it means to reduce noise and distortion, therefore the comment is aimed at no one!

I didn't say it was relevant to reproducing music. What I was saying is that it is relevant to marketing to a wider audience.

[Charlie1]

But it's supposed to be a no-compromise premium product, and certainly has a correspondingly high price tag. It's also gone up in cost over 60% since I bought mine in 2007. They also mill the aluminium in house whereas not sure that was the case originally. I appreciate manufacturing costs have gone up a lot since then too.

I get your point but Linn are a profit motivated company, more than ever!

I still don't get it - buyers must be paying at least £10k premium for this deck and that's being conservative and you're telling me they need to cut costs using a 1cm thinner slab of aluminium. Unless this 50th deck is more about style over performance and Linn are prepared to compromise on sound quality. If so, then my next thought is whether the Bedrok is a performance improvement or just styling as well.

[Ianw]

I don't understand why they would do this...

Cost savings, they need a much slimmer piece of alumunium and need only one basic Keel for different tonearms.

I think that could be correct. The limited run of curvy Keels could be capable of being adapted for other ‘arms (Aro etc) by changing the collar. This saves on making ‘special’ Keels with Aro integrated collars.
Previously Linn would make limited runs of Aro Keels when orders built up.

It also saves on cost of machining the Keel ingots with integrated ‘arm collars or maybe helps offsets the cost of curvy corners. However, there must be a cost for the new collar and fastening arrangement.

Although:

50th LP12 is only sold with Ekos SE etc so using another arm is not a new option; maybe a nod to high enders with preference for other ‘arms?

Does the introduction of a new joint/interface mean a sonic step back from an integrated Keel including ‘arm collar?

Is there something obvious not considered in my ramblings?

[Charlie1]

Like you say, it comes with an Ekos SE - that's the limited edition deck. Don't see why they would compromise on performance to support non-Linn arms like the ARO.

[Spannko]

I didn't say it was relevant to reproducing music. What I was saying is that it is relevant to marketing to a wider audience.

Ahh, right. So take the path of least resistance and just tell ‘em what they want to hear, regardless of whether it makes any sense or not, just as long as they fall for the story and buy the product. They’ll be selling the elixir of life next!

[sunbeamgls]

I didn't say it was relevant to reproducing music. What I was saying is that it is relevant to marketing to a wider audience.

Ahh, right. So take the path of least resistance and just tell ‘em what they want to hear, regardless of whether it makes any sense or not, just as long as they fall for the story and buy the product. They’ll be selling the elixir of life next!

If you like. I'm not condoning it, just pointing out the reality of life, they are in the business of making money.

[beck]

The sound of Linn today:

https://youtu.be/nQMayb-uYyU

Many will like this but it is not for me.

We all have to listen and decide. The same goes for the LP12 50……….. but maybe not an option.

[John]

Like you say, it comes with an Ekos SE - that's the limited edition deck. Don't see why they would compromise on performance to support non-Linn arms like the ARO.

Maybe they found it’s not a compromise.

[Charlie1]

I wondered that, but we all know how super sensitive the LP12 is, even to tiny torque changes, so are we really gonna believe that?

If this was entry-level or even the Kore, then I don't think I would bother questioning it but it's not, it's their £3,240 premium no-compromise sub-chassis (fitted in a £50K turntable!) and I'm struggling to see this as anything other than a step back.

Just for some sort of pricing reality check here, the new Rega Planar 3 50th deck is also made in the UK and comes with external PSU and their better MM cart for just £899. The Keel alone is three and a half times the price and now hampered by a lossy arm collar. Is it just me that thinks this is bonkers?

[Ianw]

I don't understand why they would do this...

Cost savings, they need a much slimmer piece of alumunium and need only one basic Keel for different tonearms.

I think that could be correct. The limited run of curvy Keels could be capable of being adapted for other ‘arms (Aro etc) by changing the collar. This saves on making ‘special’ Keels with Aro integrated collars.
Previously Linn would make limited runs of Aro Keels when orders built up.

It also saves on cost of machining the Keel ingots with integrated ‘arm collars or maybe helps offsets the cost of curvy corners. However, there must be a cost for the new collar and fastening arrangement.

Although:

50th LP12 is only sold with Ekos SE etc so using another arm is not a new option; maybe a nod to high enders with preference for other ‘arms?

Does the introduction of a new joint/interface mean a sonic step back from an integrated Keel including ‘arm collar?

Is there something obvious not considered in my ramblings?

On thinking about it, it can’t be for Aro as it has no hole for the Aro wires!


Maybe it’s a manufacturing jig or fixture; the four serrated washers seem alien. Could be the picture being inconclusive.

In summary it wouldn’t make sense to mod for an alternative ‘arm.