More About Powering a System

[Spannko]

Just when you thought we knew everything there was to know about powering our systems, I’ve discovered something which may (or may not!) take us one step closer to audio heaven, and best of all, it’s something everyone can try easily for themselves.

I wanted to understand a bit more about the different extension block wiring topologys, ie star, ring and in line. However, the catalyst for this experiment was wondering whether the distance between the connections had any effect on musicality, and if so, was there an optimum distance.

I started by making a wiring jig which could be easily adjusted to allow for the different topologies.

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F67A40D4-F17C-4393-AF08-A7CC9C794BF5.jpeg

I used just two components for the experiment, a Källa and a Boazu, and the network switch was powered off a different circuit.

To cut a long story short (since most of this has been covered before), a distance between wires of 0mm (aka star wiring) and a distance of 150mm wasn’t as musical as a 50mm distance. I chose 50mm as a starting point because this is a typical distance between the sockets of an average power block, and the result confirms what most people have said about preferring a standard budget power block to a star arrangement. I found that increasing the distance between the connections to 100mm was quite a bit more musical. I stopped at 100mm because it was enough to demonstrate that the distance between connections was musically significant. I then closed the loop to make a ring circuit (some very expensive audiophile power blocks use this topology). This changed the sound more than any of the other topologies, becoming very smooth, but its musicality wasn’t great. The 100mm spacing seemed to be considerably better than any other arrangement.

Before continuing with any other experiments, I thought it would be interesting to get some feedback from people who have tried this for themselves by experimenting with leaving an unused socket between their source components and power amps. It’s really easy to do and if you can leave 2 or even 3 gaps, who knows where these experiments may take us.

[lejonklou]

Excellent basic research, Spannko!

When I have a six way strip to power Källa, Superkikkin and two Tundra Mono 3, I connect the first two closest to the strip’s power input, leave two outlets unused and the power amps in the last two. I found this better than two empty outlets at the end or one on each side of the power amps. And the differences are profound!

What I now realise is that I never tried Superkikkin - empty - Källa- empty - TM- TM. That might be even better.

EDIT: Corrected the described order in the strip

[matthias]

Very interesting Spannko!
Can you describe the differences between 0mm and 150mm and do you think the material in the power strip (brass) and in your experiment (copper?) makes a difference regarding the optimum distance?
Thx

[lejonklou]

An even better idea, matthias, is that you test it yourself and then describe the differences to us.

[Spannko]

Thanks guy’s.

Now I know it’s a thing, I’ll make some recordings so everyone can hear for themselves. As Fredrik mentioned, the differences aren’t subtle!

Re: Copper vs brass. I wouldn’t like to guess tbh.

[Charlie1]

So, for those already using a 6-way, should we be on thd look out for an 8-way? Sounds like it :)

Tx for feeding back ti the forum Spannko

[markiteight]

Spannko, your experiment came at a fortuitous time for me. Just last week I decided to swap in my CablePro Revelation (with internal wiring from an Integrity) power strip for the cheap Ikea wall splitter I had been using for a couple years since we last explored this topic here. I initially had everything plugged into the first 4 sockets closest to the input, but last night I tried spacing them out to every other socket, and I didn't like the results. There were some sonic "improvements" but the music was more confused and harder to follow, and I quickly lost interest in listening further. This surprised me given others' positive experience with this experiment.

I suspect there might be one of two things happening here (or a bit of both): the last 4 sockets haven't been used in a very long time, certainly not since since I've owned it, so they could be a bit green compared to the first 4. It could also be an issue of how the CablePros are wired, as described by ThomasOK here. Given his success rewiring and optimizing his Revelation, I might pursue that route. But first I'll give it a few days to run in and try again.

[Spannko]

Thanks for your feedback mi8. For me, experiments which don’t work as expected are just as important as those which do. Clearly, there’s more to learn here!

Have you tried any other spacing arrangements? Eg Kikkin/Hakai/space/space/308/308 or Kikkin/space/Hakai/space/space/space/308/308?

[lejonklou]

I’m going to run some tests soon, as I’m working on the upgrade of a pair of Tundra Mono 2 to 3. And when evaluating that the upgraded units sound as good as new units, I will need to use the same power cords and their positions in the power strip when swapping back and forth. So I might as well find the best pattern for four units in a six outlet strip first.

By the way, this “spacing the power feed between units” applies also to electronic circuits, where I’ve been trying to optimise it for more than a decade. Sometimes the tests require lots of time and effort, as there’s close to an infinite number of ways to arrange things. So much easier with a power strip!

[Spannko]

By the way, this “spacing the power feed between units” applies also to electronic circuits, where I’ve been trying to optimise it for more than a decade. Sometimes the tests require lots of time and effort, as there’s close to an infinite number of ways to arrange things. So much easier with a power strip!

This is something I also noticed when building a power supply, almost exactly the same, actually. Star wiring wasn’t good musically, neither was having wiring nodes spaced too far apart. The optimum was somewhere in between, and was sensitive down to mm differences. It was this which made me wonder if the same also applied to mains wiring.

[tokenbrit]

In UK & EU power strips, are the internals wired as individual outlets? The Ikea power strips are brass bars, while the Cablepro are wired duplex outlets. Looking to understand whether it's the wiring that matters, or the spacing, or both...

With the duplex outlets in the Cablepro there's limited flexibility without cutting links within each duplex.

I did try spacing the TMs away from the Kalla, which appeared to be slightly better, but that may have been bias... Need to switch back to get a better sense. More importantly, if hierarchy applies, could be to space Kalla from SMs, and TMs go at the end:

Was [SM|SM] [K|-] [TM|TM] [-|-]
Now [SM|SM] [K|-] [-|-] [TM|TM]
To try [SM|SM] [-|-] [K|-] [TM|TM]

And what happens if other equipment is plugged in but switched off? So much to test :)

[Spannko]

AFAIA, non audiophile power distribution units usually have brass strips with individual outlets. Audiophile PDU’s are usually wired to single outlets, but I’ve also seen double (duplex) outlets used too.

[ThomasOK]

Interesting experiments, Spannko! It is good (and bad) to see new ideas tried and evaluated. (Good because it moves us forward, bad because it means I have that much more work before I can feel I have everything optimum. Does that time ever happen?)

In the US the basic power strips and surge suppressors generally use brass strips with blades welded to them that grip the plugs although some just have holes in the strip for the ground pins (which are round with the plus and neutral bing flat). The audiophile power strips use either single outlets or duplex outlets (as in the CablePro). Some of these are wired to each outlet or duplex outlet but some mount the outlets to PCBs for the wiring.

As mentioned I did some playing around with my CablePro and found that using a single wire that connected to the four duplex outlets was more musical than the star wiring they came with. I do believe that was in part due to the star wiring but also to replacing the teflon-coated, silver-plated copper wire with 14 gauge copper Volex J wiring, a heavier version of the best cable Fredrik has found for the US. But however much came from the two parts I am happy with the result. In my system I don't have any open sockets. The CablePro handles 8 and these are Sag/Sag, SING/SING, Radikal/Källa, TM/TM. Then I have to use the other socket of the wall duplex outlet for the Kremlin if I want it plugged in. I have tried to find basic 8 outlet power strips here but they don't seem to be made, they all top out at six outlets. I currently use the basic six outlet strip with bypassed power switch that was second best musically for the front room network components. I have another CablePro but I need to rewire it before I press it back into service, which I plan to do in a little different manner.

[Spannko]

Thanks Thomas. I should point out that the idea of increased wiring distances between components isn’t new, so I don’t want to take credit for other peoples ideas!

[markiteight]

Thanks for your feedback mi8. For me, experiments which don’t work as expected are just as important as those which do. Clearly, there’s more to learn here!

Have you tried any other spacing arrangements? Eg Kikkin/Hakai/space/space/308/308 or Kikkin/space/Hakai/space/space/space/308/308?

Exactly! If anything we learn more from the failures than we do from the successes. I haven't messed around with any arrangements other than Kikkin/Hak/308/308/space/space/space/space versus Kikkin/space/Hak/space/308/space 308/space, but I'll give some other configs a go while I await the arrival of some Volex-J.

Given my propensity for overthinking things, I've been thinking: in a stock wired CablePro the ground pin is connected to the ground lug on the first duplex socket via a short wire. This ties the duplex's metal mounting bracket to ground, which also grounds the chassis. That means the first socket is effectively connected directly to the ground pin via this wire, the second socket is connected to ground via the copper bus bar on the duplex socket and the chassis, and sockets 3 through 8 are grounded via the chassis only. Rewiring the grounds as ThomasOK described would result in at least two ground paths for every socket, possibly three! I'm wondering if it would be worthwhile trying to isolate the duplexes from the chassis so the only ground path is through the wire (with a separate chassis ground to keep things from getting too zappy, of course). I'm not sure that would actually be possible without taking extensive measures.

Thoughts?

[ThomasOK]

I did not run a ground wire to each duplex socket. As the CablePro came with just the short ground wire to the first duplex socket and the rest were mechanically grounded to the case I just did the ground that way. I connected a short piece of the ground wire from the cable I used to the first ground and left it at that. Hooking it up differently would likely give a different perfromance but I have no idea which way it would lean.

[Spannko]

Given my propensity for overthinking things, I've been thinking: in a stock wired CablePro the ground pin is connected to the ground lug on the first duplex socket via a short wire. This ties the duplex's metal mounting bracket to ground, which also grounds the chassis. That means the first socket is effectively connected directly to the ground pin via this wire, the second socket is connected to ground via the copper bus bar on the duplex socket and the chassis, and sockets 3 through 8 are grounded via the chassis only. Rewiring the grounds as ThomasOK described would result in at least two ground paths for every socket, possibly three! I'm wondering if it would be worthwhile trying to isolate the duplexes from the chassis so the only ground path is through the wire (with a separate chassis ground to keep things from getting too zappy, of course). I'm not sure that would actually be possible without taking extensive measures.

Thoughts?

You’ve raised an interesting point here mi8. It sounds like the Cablepro distribution block uses cross bonding on the first duplex as a belt and braces approach to achieve a super safe solution, with the subsequent duplexes being grounded via a common bus bar. This seems like a pretty complex arrangement compared to the non audiophile distribution blocks which ground everything through one common bus bar.

[markiteight]

I did not run a ground wire to each duplex socket. As the CablePro came with just the short ground wire to the first duplex socket and the rest were mechanically grounded to the case I just did the ground that way. I connected a short piece of the ground wire from the cable I used to the first ground and left it at that. Hooking it up differently would likely give a different perfromance but I have no idea which way it would lean.

Thanks for the clarification, Tom! I had assumed you did the same to the ground that you did to the live and neutral wires. I might give both a try. More variables! Yay!

You’ve raised an interesting point here mi8. It sounds like the Cablepro distribution block uses cross bonding on the first duplex as a belt and braces approach to achieve a super safe solution, with the subsequent duplexes being grounded via a common bus bar. This seems like a pretty complex arrangement compared to the non audiophile distribution blocks which ground everything through one common bus bar.

There's no bus bar in the CablePro. The ground point on these duplexes is tied to their metal mounting brackets, which are fixed to the metal chassis. Only the first duplex has anything connected to its ground screw, the other three are vacant, so they ground through the chassis to the first duplex. I'll post a photo of the interior of an Integrity ('cause I have one already opened up) for clarification. The Revelation is the same.

[markiteight]

There's no bus bar in the CablePro.

I was wrong! The bolts that hold the duplexes to the chassis tie the mounting brackets together, thus creating a bus bar!



(I moved the live and neutral star arrays out of the way so you can more clearly see how the ground is connected)

Given this revelation (sorry...), it's likely that a direct, wired ground connection at each duplex won't be of any benefit. However, the Tune Method has a tendency to respond to assumptions with, "hold my beer..." so it's probably still worth investigating.

[tokenbrit]

I had it wrong too: I had moved Kalla as well as TMs so my Lejonklou electronics are currently plugged in as in the 'to try' orientation... With the internal wiring of the Cablepro (live & neutral) arranged as it is, I don't know that it can reveal the musical benefit of Spannko's findings unless rewired from duplex to duplex...

In addition to the Cablepro, I use an Ikea Koppla (3-way) to allow the 108T switch & wireless access point to be plugged into the same wall outlet as recommended in the Kalla wiring diagram, with switch 1st. The wireless access point was plugged in the 2nd of the 3 positions. Realising the brass bar internals of the Koppla better allow for ~100mm separation, I moved the wap to the 3rd spot on the 3-way. I don't know if it's just the clean connection from unplugging & plugging in again, but I did feel there was an improvement.

Would be interested if others find a benefit with powering the network components too, as suggested, as part of the whole system.

[Spannko]

That’s another interesting discovery, tokenbrit! Since I only have a switch to power up, I hadn’t thought about whether increasing the spacing between network components might help too.

[markiteight]

I had it wrong too: I had moved Kalla as well as TMs so my Lejonklou electronics are currently plugged in as in the 'to try' orientation... With the internal wiring of the Cablepro (live & neutral) arranged as it is, I don't know that it can reveal the musical benefit of Spannko's findings unless rewired from duplex to duplex...

I'm not sure how wrong you actually are. When it comes to the CablePros and trying to compare one person's findings with others, we have to consider which version is under test. This is further exacerbated by the fact that I rewired my Revelation (single point/bus bar ground) with the guts from an Integrity Noisetrapper II (star ground), so my experience won't necessarily translate to yours. To that end, I've ordered the appropriate 14ga Volex-J wire for the Revelation's internals, and the short 16ga Volex-J cord for wall to strip that is the best Tom has found so far. Hopefully that will level the playing field a bit.

In addition to the Cablepro, I use an Ikea Koppla (3-way) to allow the 108T switch & wireless access point to be plugged into the same wall outlet as recommended in the Kalla wiring diagram, with switch 1st. The wireless access point was plugged in the 2nd of the 3 positions. Realising the brass bar internals of the Koppla better allow for ~100mm separation, I moved the wap to the 3rd spot on the 3-way. I don't know if it's just the clean connection from unplugging & plugging in again, but I did feel there was an improvement.

Would be interested if others find a benefit with powering the network components too, as suggested, as part of the whole system.

I do the same: a Kappa 3 way powers the network bits (GS308T and AmpliFiHD), but at the moment they're plugged into a different outlet from the system. Now that I'm back to using the Revelation I have a vacant slot on the duplex the system is plugged into so I can easily move the network bits to the same outlet. I'll add that to the list of things to try.

[lejonklou]

I have now tried every possible combination of how to power one source, one preamp and two power amps (Källa, Superkikkin, Tundra Mono 3 and Tundra Mono 3) with a six-way standard power strip (Clas Ohlson 36-8904) that has one long brass strip feeding every socket for both live, neutral and ground.

Perhaps it's worth mentioning that all the best sounding power strips I've heard have been built this way. The cheap Clas Ohlson strip is one of the best and if you're using European (Shuko) plugs, just get one.

The best arrangement is:
[Incoming mains power] ~ Superkikkin - Källa - empty - empty - TM3 - TM3

Separating Superkikkin and Källa is worse, they want to be close together with Superkikkin first.

Separating Power amps is worse. It also makes them sound a little different from one another, which is not a good thing.

Having one empty outlet between Superkikkin-Källa and TM3-TM3 is clearly better than having none (all four units close together). The difference between one and two empty outlets is smaller. But with two empty ones the "micro timing" is improved and the music grooves and grips me a little more.

I have a feeling that three empty outlets would not improve the music further but rather degrade it. But until evaluated, that's just a feeling!

[beck]

Your points Fredrik fits nicely with my findings. More distance between source and poweramp helped music. I have two empty sockets between them.

[Spannko]

I have now tried every possible combination of how to power one source, one preamp and two power amps (Källa, Superkikkin, Tundra Mono 3 and Tundra Mono 3) with a six-way standard power strip (Clas Ohlson 36-8904) that has one long brass strip feeding every socket for both live, neutral and ground.

Perhaps it's worth mentioning that all the best sounding power strips I've heard have been built this way. The cheap Clas Ohlson strip is one of the best and if you're using European (Shuko) plugs, just get one.

The best arrangement is:
[Incoming mains power] ~ Superkikkin - Källa - empty - empty - TM3 - TM3

Separating Superkikkin and Källa is worse, they want to be close together with Superkikkin first.

Separating Power amps is worse. It also makes them sound a little different from one another, which is not a good thing.

Having one empty outlet between Superkikkin-Källa and TM3-TM3 is clearly better than having none (all four units close together). The difference between one and two empty outlets is smaller. But with two empty ones the "micro timing" is improved and the music grooves and grips me a little more.

I have a feeling that three empty outlets would not improve the music further but rather degrade it. But until evaluated, that's just a feeling!

This is great news Fredrik!

It feels as though the type of power strip and the benefit of spacing some of the components is fairly well understood now.

Looking through some old posts, I see that you and Thomas came to a similar conclusion in that the power strip’s (1.5mm2) captive flex can be improved by shortening it to somewhere around 600mm. Is this something you would still recommend?