More About Powering a System

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markiteight
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Re: More About Powering a System

Post by markiteight »

Tonight I had a bit of time to play around with plug spacing and came up with this order, from best to worst:

Kikkin/HAKAI/space/space/308/308/space/space
Kikkin/HAKAI/308/308/space/space/space/space
Kikkin/HAKAI/space/308/308/space/space/space
Kikkin/HAKAI/space/space/space/308/308/space
Kikkin/space/HAKAI/space/308/space/308/space

It appears that like items prefer sharing a duplex. Kikkin and HAKAI want to stick together, and the 308s like being on their own duplex with a duplex's worth of space between them and the source/preamp. Giving each component its own duplex was the worst of the combos tried.

I'm taking this with a grain of salt until I have a chance to rewire the internals with Volex. Unfortunately that will have to wait a bit as the cords I ordered have Ta Hsing and Baohing wire rather than Volex. It's a gamble whether you get the right wire, and it looks like my first attempt was a swing and a miss.
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Re: More About Powering a System

Post by Defender »

seems the picture is becoming even more clear with the feedback from MI8 also in my case the move of the JBL‘s more far away from the source and the Pre was not only less musical but also had a nasty harschness in the hights and sounded a little bit „restless“ understanding background voices became more difficult.
Back to the original setup with one socket between the source and the JBL‘s.

But now I see I should maybe try to have no empty socket between source and JBLs if I am looking at the order of tested situations from MI8
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Re: More About Powering a System

Post by matthias »

Defender wrote: 2023-05-13 12:53 But now I see I should maybe try to have no empty socket between source and JBLs if I am looking at the order of tested situations from MI8
Why?
It seems to be consensus now to have at least one empty socket between source and poweramp/active speakers.
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Re: More About Powering a System

Post by Spannko »

I’m wondering if the general rule should be “As close together as possible, but no closer”.

There appears to be an optimum point somewhere between too close (ie star wiring) and too far apart (eg different circuit) which possibly varies from system to system depending upon how sensitive the low level source/control components are to mains voltage drops generated by the power drawn by different power amplifiers. Thankfully, the best options seem to be only one or two power sockets apart, making it very easy for anyone to experiment for themselves.
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Re: More About Powering a System

Post by ThomasOK »

Interesting findings, markiteight. I have tended to keep like units into the same duplex outlet just intuitively feeling it would be best. In my system the SMs share the first duplex socket, the SINGularities share the third and the TMs the fourth. The Radikal and Källa are plugged into the second one.
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Re: More About Powering a System

Post by Defender »

matthias wrote: 2023-05-13 13:20
Defender wrote: 2023-05-13 12:53 But now I see I should maybe try to have no empty socket between source and JBLs if I am looking at the order of tested situations from MI8
Why?
It seems to be consensus now to have at least one empty socket between source and poweramp/active speakers.
well the order MI8 put the different options was
1st 2sockets empty between source and JBL‘s
2nd no socket empty between source and JBL‘s
3rd one socket empty between source and JBL‘s
since I cant do the first option I can only try the 2nd and 3rd
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Re: More About Powering a System

Post by lejonklou »

Defender wrote: 2023-05-13 17:33
matthias wrote: 2023-05-13 13:20
Defender wrote: 2023-05-13 12:53 But now I see I should maybe try to have no empty socket between source and JBLs if I am looking at the order of tested situations from MI8
Why?
It seems to be consensus now to have at least one empty socket between source and poweramp/active speakers.
well the order MI8 put the different options was
1st 2sockets empty between source and JBL‘s
2nd no socket empty between source and JBL‘s
3rd one socket empty between source and JBL‘s
since I cant do the first option I can only try the 2nd and 3rd
This is because his sockets are duplex, arranged in pairs. It’s not good to have the speakers on two separate duplex’s. Your power strip might not have that arrangement.
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Re: More About Powering a System

Post by markiteight »

lejonklou wrote: 2023-05-13 19:19 This is because his sockets are duplex, arranged in pairs. It’s not good to have the speakers on two separate duplex’s. Your power strip might not have that arrangement.
Thank you for clarifying that point, Fredrik. I probably should have mentioned what works for NA power strips probably won't translate to European power strips. To that end my experiments don't really do much to answer Spannko's original question, but I still find it interesting how the different socket designs affect the outcome.
ThomasOK wrote: 2023-05-13 16:31 Interesting findings, markiteight. I have tended to keep like units into the same duplex outlet just intuitively feeling it would be best. In my system the SMs share the first duplex socket, the SINGularities share the third and the TMs the fourth. The Radikal and Källa are plugged into the second one.
I suspect your arrangement is close to ideal, and certainly close enough to not worry about lack of distance between pairs.
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Re: More About Powering a System

Post by Charlie1 »

I only had one test to do after everyone's efforts. I'm using a basic 6 way masterplug with 1m tail.

I preferred slipsik/giella pi/lingo2/space/tm2/tm2

To slipsik/giella pi/space/lingo2/tm2/tm2

Nice little uplift - tx folks
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Re: More About Powering a System

Post by lejonklou »

I assume you have tried:
Giella PI-Lingo 2-Slipsik 8-space-TM2-TM2, and
Giella PI-Slipsik 8-Lingo 2-space-TM2-TM2 ?
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Re: More About Powering a System

Post by ThomasOK »

I'll just mention that the CablePro power strips use duplex outlets. Some other atrips as well but they will be obvious from their construction. The simpler ones, like the six outlet ones I got from Home Depot and the basic 3 and 6 outlet strips from Ikea use the same kind of single brass strips feeding all outlets like the Clas Ohlson do. Their behavior is likely to be a little different.
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Re: More About Powering a System

Post by Defender »

thank you all for that clarification
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Re: More About Powering a System

Post by Charlie1 »

lejonklou wrote: 2023-05-13 21:24 I assume you have tried:
Giella PI-Lingo 2-Slipsik 8-space-TM2-TM2, and
Giella PI-Slipsik 8-Lingo 2-space-TM2-TM2 ?
No, but will do.

I thought concensus was that phono stage and preamp like to be next to one another
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Re: More About Powering a System

Post by lejonklou »

No consensus for when a motor controller is involved.
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Re: More About Powering a System

Post by Defender »

would it make sense in a situation where you have two SM’s and two TM‘s (or two JBL‘s) to do like this:

[SM left][SM right] [Source] [Empty] [TM right][TM left]


… to somehow compensate for the advantages and „disadvantages“ of the channels to be closer to the power input
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Re: More About Powering a System

Post by Charlie1 »

seems like a good idea
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Re: More About Powering a System

Post by tokenbrit »

Question to markiteight & ThomasOK, primarily, regarding the US power cord for a Cablepro:

I know Fredrik recommends shorter (2'), heavier (14) gauge, and that Volex tends to be preferred, but the ready-made 2 ft Volex only seems to be available in 16ga. Have either of you, or anyone tried the P007-002 Eaton Tripp Lite 14ga, 2 ft power cord? (or have I just tasked myself ;)

Power cords are much easier for me to test than internal wiring in the case of the Cablepro, but I'm interested to hear results of Spannko's 100mm spacing applied to the wiring between Cablepro duplexes, if/when that's possible :)
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Re: More About Powering a System

Post by Spannko »

The 100mm spacing hasn’t been verified as the best spacing, and isn’t a hard and fast rule. Initially, I tried three distances, 0mm, roughly 200mm and roughly 50mm, all measured by eye. Having a space between Källa and Boazu seemed to work the best, so I wondered if increasing the space would make matters better or worse. Not having a tape measure handy, I used a drinks coaster as a gauge (in order to make my “research” a bit more respectable!) and this just happened to be 100mm square. The 100mm spacing was the best of the 4 spacings tried, and was enough to be able to draw some preliminary conclusions, and since the spacing was roughly equal to two sockets on a power strip, I thought that it was near enough for people to experiment for themselves.
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Re: More About Powering a System

Post by tokenbrit »

Spannko wrote: 2023-05-14 15:24 The 100mm spacing hasn’t been verified as the best spacing, and isn’t a hard and fast rule. Initially, I tried three distances, 0mm, roughly 200mm and roughly 50mm, all measured by eye. Having a space between Källa and Boazu seemed to work the best, so I wondered if increasing the space would make matters better or worse. Not having a tape measure handy, I used a drinks coaster as a gauge (in order to make my “research” a bit more respectable!) and this just happened to be 100mm square. The 100mm spacing was the best of the 4 spacings tried, and was enough to be able to draw some preliminary conclusions, and since the spacing was roughly equal to two sockets on a power strip, I thought that it was near enough for people to experiment for themselves.
Of course, and it's possible the construction of the Cablepro responds differently, but 100 seems as good a start point as any to find what works best.
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Re: More About Powering a System

Post by Spannko »

tokenbrit wrote: 2023-05-14 15:49
Spannko wrote: 2023-05-14 15:24 The 100mm spacing hasn’t been verified as the best spacing, and isn’t a hard and fast rule. Initially, I tried three distances, 0mm, roughly 200mm and roughly 50mm, all measured by eye. Having a space between Källa and Boazu seemed to work the best, so I wondered if increasing the space would make matters better or worse. Not having a tape measure handy, I used a drinks coaster as a gauge (in order to make my “research” a bit more respectable!) and this just happened to be 100mm square. The 100mm spacing was the best of the 4 spacings tried, and was enough to be able to draw some preliminary conclusions, and since the spacing was roughly equal to two sockets on a power strip, I thought that it was near enough for people to experiment for themselves.
Of course, and it's possible the construction of the Cablepro responds differently, but 100 seems as good a start point as any to find what works best.
My thoughts, exactly!
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Re: More About Powering a System

Post by Charlie1 »

lejonklou wrote: 2023-05-13 21:24 I assume you have tried:
Giella PI-Lingo 2-Slipsik 8-space-TM2-TM2, and
Giella PI-Slipsik 8-Lingo 2-space-TM2-TM2 ?
Preferred the latter, as it was before
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Re: More About Powering a System

Post by tokenbrit »

Charlie1 wrote: 2023-05-14 20:19
lejonklou wrote: 2023-05-13 21:24 I assume you have tried:
Giella PI-Lingo 2-Slipsik 8-space-TM2-TM2, and
Giella PI-Slipsik 8-Lingo 2-space-TM2-TM2 ?
Preferred the latter, as it was before
Thought "as it was before" was Slipsik 1st? :-?
Charlie1 wrote: .. preferred slipsik/giella pi/lingo2/space/tm2/tm2

To slipsik/giella pi/space/lingo2/tm2/tm2
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Re: More About Powering a System

Post by lejonklou »

I'd like to make a WARNING about daisy-chaining power strips.

Every strip has a power rating, which is printed on it. If the sum of the power consumed by all units connected to the strip exceeds the strip's power rating, metal parts will be heated enough to potentially cause a fire.

If a power strip has a second strip daisy-chained to it, it will be loaded with the power consumption of all units connected to both strips. Although most HiFi units don't consume much power, someone could for instance plug a high power vacuum cleaner or a radiator into one of the free outlets and then the total sum of power consumed might add up to more than what the first strip is rated for.

So don’t daisy-chain power strips!
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Re: More About Powering a System

Post by Charlie1 »

tokenbrit wrote: 2023-05-14 21:00 Thought "as it was before" was Slipsik 1st? :-?
Doh!

I didn't notice that - thanks for mentioning.

New preference is Giella Pi > Lingo 2 > Slipsik 8 > Spare > TM2 > TM2
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Re: More About Powering a System

Post by Arjen »

lejonklou wrote: 2023-05-14 21:01 I'd like to make a WARNING about daisy-chaining power strips.

Every strip has a power rating, which is printed on it. If the sum of the power consumed by all units connected to the strip exceeds the strip's power rating, metal parts will be heated enough to potentially cause a fire.

If a power strip has a second strip daisy-chained to it, it will be loaded with the power consumption of all units connected to both strips. Although most HiFi units don't consume much power, someone could for instance plug a high power vacuum cleaner or a radiator into one of the free outlets and then the total sum of power consumed might add up to more than what the first strip is rated for.

So don’t daisy-chain power strips!
Thank you Fredrik for this lesson. I wasn’t that conscious about coupling strips with each other. After reading I just disconnected the two strips and put them in the two separate wallsockets. Only that I had to change the order of devices now to probably theoretically a suboptimum (TT source not from the wall but the strip). But the safer, the better.
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