Thank you Tom!

You are all welcome. They are serial numbered as 1/250 - 250/250. The one I worked on was in the 20s.
The other parts of the table all follow normal Linn serial numbering including the LP12-50 specific items: the Keel-50, Radikal-50 and Urika-50.

As to a new arm, one never knows. But why after all Linn designed arms since the larger pillar Ittok have used the same size pillar (even the Clearaudio sourced Krane does) would there be a need to make it different?
Plus if they do make the pillar larger that would mean that all existing Keels would have to be replaced or at least re-machined and there isn't much extra aluminum for re-machining. Also that kind of forward aimed change would tend to indicate an imminent new product. I would imagine there would be 250 pissed off LP12-50 owners if Linn came out with a new Ekos SE/1 replacement in six months. The Utopik will be bad enough.

I don't really know what is going on and there is no explanation in the updated instructions - a 2 page document that mostly just talks about which items have changed.

One last thing I forgot to mention is that the new power switch has the same logic to it as the existing Radikal power switches. I consider this a very good thing as the way it works is much better than the way the Lingo 4 switch works (and also previous Lingos).

Charlie1 wrote: ↑2023-10-12 09:02 Great post - thanks Thomas!!!

I've added it to the LP12 Product History page.

Is there a unique serial number for these or do they just follow the current numbering?

I guess it's safe to assume Linn has a new arm in the pipeline then.

Thanks Tom.

Could there be a way of fixing a new arm using the existing screw holes used by this new arm collar?

Perhaps Linn would offer their 'special' 250 customers a special deal on a new arm. Better that than having to sell the Ekos SE and Keel in order to get a new super duper arm.

Charlie1 wrote: ↑2023-10-13 09:36 Thanks Tom.

Could there be a way of fixing a new arm using the existing screw holes used by this new arm collar?

Perhaps Linn would offer their 'special' 250 customers a special deal on a new arm. Better that than having to sell the Ekos SE and Keel in order to get a new super duper arm.

From the pictures I can't see how it's possible to mount any tonearm into it without yet another collar unless intigrated. In a way it seems like a step backwards, another mechanical connection. But it does offer other tonearm fitting options -and possibly broader appeal- as long as Linn -or eventually aftermarket- supplies a collar for it.

The Keel collar arrangement is a bit of a mystery.

tpetsch wrote: ↑2023-10-13 17:25

Charlie1 wrote: ↑2023-10-13 09:36 Thanks Tom.

Could there be a way of fixing a new arm using the existing screw holes used by this new arm collar?

Perhaps Linn would offer their 'special' 250 customers a special deal on a new arm. Better that than having to sell the Ekos SE and Keel in order to get a new super duper arm.

From the pictures I can't see how it's possible to mount any tonearm into it without yet another collar unless intigrated. In a way it seems like a step backwards, another mechanical connection. But it does offer other tonearm fitting options -and possibly broader appeal- as long as Linn -or eventually aftermarket- supplies a collar for it.

Thanks - good to read your thoughts

Ianw wrote: ↑2023-10-14 14:00 The Keel collar arrangement is a bit of a mystery.

I have heard that. as the regular Keel is CNC machined from a solid billet, the arm collar has to have a curve where it meets the flat surface of the armboard. Apparently the design guru insisted that this curve be eliminated and a right-angle substituted. The only solution was to produce a separate arm collar, fixed by four massive bolts to simulate the rigidity of the original.

Rounded corners, anyone?!

David Neel wrote: ↑2023-10-14 19:51

Ianw wrote: ↑2023-10-14 14:00 The Keel collar arrangement is a bit of a mystery.

I have heard that. as the regular Keel is CNC machined from a solid billet, the arm collar has to have a curve where it meets the flat surface of the armboard. Apparently the design guru insisted that this curve be eliminated and a right-angle substituted. The only solution was to produce a separate arm collar, fixed by four massive bolts to simulate the rigidity of the original.

Rounded corners, anyone?!

What wonderful thinking! We'll put curves all over the place but remove the one that is actually functional! That curve where the collar rises out of the Keel is really quite tiny. Most would never know it was there.

This ties in wit a post I put on the other forum about the plinth and the rounded corners. My thought was that the rounded corners on the top plate and the insides of the plinth might have more to do with machinability than strictly with style. If you look at the inside of CNC machined enclosures like the Linn Klimax gear and the SINGularity you will note that the machined corners tend to be all rounded. (Where you see sharp corners is normally made when two pieces of metal are fitted together.) I would imagine machining a truly sharp 90° inside corner with a CNC setup is rather difficult. The Urika-50 also has rounded corners as does the bottom of the plinth. This brings up the question of whether the Bedrok plinth for Klimax LP12s (we have been told it will be available separately at some time) will also require a new top plate.

I believe the booplinth is cnc routed from a solid block of laminated bamboo yet still has square inside corners. Squaring the corners is a relatively easy task with the right tools.

Spannko wrote: ↑2023-10-14 23:30 I believe the booplinth is cnc routed from a solid block of laminated bamboo yet still has square inside corners. Squaring the corners is a relatively easy task with the right tools.

If you look closely at the photos of the Booplinth you will see that the only inside corners that are square are where the top plate fits in and the top next to the armboard cutout and both only at the very top. All the other internal corners are curved, including those four corners just below the top.

The Ekos SE arm is very good, while retaining the same ideas of simplicity and technological homogeneity of the Ittoks arms then the Ekos, it is a physical improvement with the Titanium tube, the afinés bearings + ceramic balls in one direction; perhaps only a new Ekos SE improved with Sapphire balls remains or Rubis ?

A video of an interview with Frank Murray, the Lead Mechanical Design Engineer at Linn in which he explains some of the design ideas behind the LP12-50. I note that the new Linn mantra of "eliminating noise and distortion" is present in this video as it has been in interviews with Gilad. It also explains why they did some of the things they did.

https://youtu.be/fRNYh6Hyn90

A little background on Linn:

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/239 ... urus-ears/

I’ve never noticed the curve at the bottom of the arm collar on my Keel. I had to go and look. Not avoidable, of course, when CNC is making right angles. It is indeed very small. Using a magnifying glass also revealed some slight anodizing irregularities in that area and I assume that’s what has bothered Sir Jony. In his recent interview Frank Murray mentions improved anodizing and aesthetics as the reason for the bolt on collar. I’m curious as a design engineer, concerned with controlling vibration, what he thinks of the change. Certainly changing sound design principles for aesthetics can point to a company in danger of losing their way.

Feels more like spin... appropriately for a turntable. I'm not getting much sense of musical passion from either link 🤷

ThomasOK wrote: ↑2023-11-10 21:06 I note that the new Linn mantra of "eliminating noise and distortion" is present in this video as it has been in interviews with Gilad.

With this mantra they are in the same boat as all high end manufacturers, it is all about eliminating noise. So why buy LINN?
This 50th Anniversary LP12 is for me the biggest joke of the year.

tokenbrit wrote: ↑2023-11-11 16:40 I'm not getting much sense of musical passion from either link 🤷

I wonder what Ivor thinks of the direction Linn has taken since Gilad has taken over? There certainly doesn’t seek to be much emphasis on rhythm’s and tunes these days. I switched off the first video after hearing that Jonny “Dieter Rams” Ives main contribution was the circular power button and friction hinges.

Spannko wrote: ↑2023-11-12 00:38 I wonder what Ivor thinks of the direction Linn has taken since Gilad has taken over?

I wonder if he's mainly concerned that it's still under family ownership and doing pretty well.

Perhaps focus on the tune is simply a 'nice to have'.

Would be interesting to find out wouldn't it.

ThomasOK wrote: ↑2023-11-10 21:06 A video of an interview with Frank Murray, the Lead Mechanical Design Engineer at Linn in which he explains some of the design ideas behind the LP12-50. I note that the new Linn mantra of "eliminating noise and distortion" is present in this video as it has been in interviews with Gilad. It also explains why they did some of the things they did.

https://youtu.be/fRNYh6Hyn90

50 years. A long time to get rid off noise and distortian. What is left for the next 50 year to the LP12? Poundwise Soundbullish or Walletfoolish?

I stopped listening to that marketing nonsense when they claimed they couldnt make Klimax Kontrol better and volume control is going to be digital for noise reduction. It is simply not reflected to what I hear and enjoy and obviously others could make a better product than Klimax Kontrol.

It just leaves a gap which someone else fills and I am happy we have a solution with Fredriks products.

So why complain - I (and most of us) did win from that.

Their goal is to maximize profit margin but of course they cant say that.

My take on the links was a little different.

Linn doing research to determine the best plinth for an LP12 may benefit all LP12 users in time. Having a famous designer involved in a limited edition celebration LP12 seems fine to me. AFAIK nobody on this forum has heard the turntable compared to any other top of the range LP12 - the new version may be more musical.

In my HiFi life I've bought a fair number of Linn units and interconnects. Nobody held a gun to my head - each purchase was based on the judgement of my ears.

As far as wondering what Ivor thinks of developments at Linn, anyone interested can watch his YouTube interview in 2019 where he hints (towards the end) that Linn wasn't in a good place. Gilad seems to have turned Linn around financially. Linn as an innovative going concern is a positive and I'm certain Ivor is proud of Gilad.

Ivor owes the world nothing. I hope he's enjoying his music. I'm listening to my secondary system which uses a Linn preamp and the music is a joy. I wish Ivor well.

https://youtu.be/aEOboL8WDDA?si=RiYEivTYZ70u-lHO

Despite all of the changes at Linn in the last 50 years, there’s one thing which hasn’t changed: some people believe the marketing bullshit and some people don’t.

Spannko wrote: ↑2023-11-12 18:38 Despite all of the changes at Linn in the last 50 years, there’s one thing which hasn’t changed: some people believe the marketing bullshit and some people don’t.

I don't recall Linn doing marketing during the time I bought kit from their shop in Glasgow (or any other time). The Linn dealerships I encountered in my first stint in Kent didn't push Linn either. I did buy Rega turntabes (three inside six months, the P3, P25 AND P9) in Tunbridge Wells but I knew what I was likely to buy before entering the shop. I'd heard an LP12 and P3 in the late 70s/early 80s. My strategy when buying HiFi is to take some of my music to a dealer and listen to what interests me relative to something else I know from their stock.

However, I've never had blind loyalty to any brand, HiFi or otherwise. Perhaps marketing is lost on me.

FairPlayMotty wrote: ↑2023-11-13 01:02
……….I don't recall Linn doing marketing during the time I bought kit from their shop in Glasgow (or any other time)………. Perhaps marketing is lost on me.

I believe this is known as being hoisted by your own petard 😂

Spannko wrote: ↑2023-11-13 04:59

FairPlayMotty wrote: ↑2023-11-13 01:02
……….I don't recall Linn doing marketing during the time I bought kit from their shop in Glasgow (or any other time)………. Perhaps marketing is lost on me.

I believe this is known as being hoisted by your own petard 😂

I'm about to buy chocolate - have I fallen victim to a sneaky marketing campaign? No.
Do I believe that the shop selling the chocolate has imbued it with magical qualities not found in other chocolate? No.
Am I going to wake up tomorrow and express anger at the company that made the chocolate? No.

As an adult I can make a decision.

On the occasions I'd drinks with Ivor in Glasgow (prior to me buying Linn products) I don't recall him ever talking about HiFi. The conversation was typical Glaswegian banter.