Linn 50th Anniversary

[Tendaberry]

Thanks very much for this useful info. Meanwhile, the 360's are finally on the homepage: https://www.linn.co.uk/de/speakers/360

[Whatsmynaim]

ABSOLUTE SOUND just posted this video, "Linn Unveils NEW Loudspeaker | Michael Fremer Reports"
It's a presentation/sales pitch by Linn about the new 360 speaker: https://youtu.be/s6rlA_mYDpg

[matthias]

ABSOLUTE SOUND just posted this video, "Linn Unveils NEW Loudspeaker | Michael Fremer Reports"
It's a presentation/sales pitch by Linn about the new 360 speaker: https://youtu.be/s6rlA_mYDpg

More than half an hour talking about a speaker and not one minute listening to it.
Bravo!

[Whatsmynaim]

It's disappointing but maybe they'll post the music in a separate video.
I have some thoughts about the presentation though and how it could've come from basically any high end manufacturer.
The long list of buzz words and then almost nothing is mentioned about the musicality of the loudspeaker.

[beck]

It's disappointing but maybe they'll post the music in a separate video.
I have some thoughts about the presentation though and how it could've come from basically any high end manufacturer.
The long list of buzz words and then almost nothing is mentioned about the musicality of the loudspeaker.

https://youtube.com/shorts/PAWSbXlsPNI?feature=share

https://youtube.com/shorts/qP70bz45l24?feature=share

[matthias]

https://youtube.com/shorts/PAWSbXlsPNI?feature=share
https://youtube.com/shorts/qP70bz45l24?feature=share

It is always funny to see these massive excursions of the bass drivers like these of Devialet Phantoms.
I rarely see any moving of the bass drivers of my 3677s.

[Defender]

yes to me that is not a good sign - doesnt look the amp is in control but rather the bass driver playing games.

[Spannko]

It's disappointing but maybe they'll post the music in a separate video.
I have some thoughts about the presentation though and how it could've come from basically any high end manufacturer.
The long list of buzz words and then almost nothing is mentioned about the musicality of the loudspeaker.

I lasted about a minute. When Gilad started talking about hearing things you’ve never heard before, trying track after track to see what they sound like and getting a fix, it reminded me of what I have done in the past with impressive sounding but musically poor systems. I wasn’t inclined to want to hear any more of his marketing blurb.

[Spannko]

It's disappointing but maybe they'll post the music in a separate video.
I have some thoughts about the presentation though and how it could've come from basically any high end manufacturer.
The long list of buzz words and then almost nothing is mentioned about the musicality of the loudspeaker.

https://youtube.com/shorts/PAWSbXlsPNI?feature=share

https://youtube.com/shorts/qP70bz45l24?feature=share

Oh dear, how embarrassing.

[Øyvind I]

Worthwhile time to listen to designer of the speaker and also reviewer after the first lightening impression. Interesting comments on general loudspeaker designs by Linn over the years.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=760XDkB ... e=youtu.be

Speaking of drivers, a former engineering colleague of mine worked at SEAS (which is 30 km down my road) and mentioned frequent visits by Linn to Moss for a while.

Will be interesting to listen to and what also comes tickling down the road for amplification and speakers.

[matthias]

Most certainly Linn will demo them at High End Munich next month. I am curious to listen to the 360s there.

[Charlie1]

Worthwhile time to listen to designer of the speaker and also reviewer after the first lightening impression. Interesting comments on general loudspeaker designs by Linn over the years.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=760XDkB ... e=youtu.be

Speaking of drivers, a former engineering colleague of mine worked at SEAS (which is 30 km down my road) and mentioned frequent visits by Linn to Moss for a while.

Will be interesting to listen to and what also comes tickling down the road for amplification and speakers.

Interesting - thanks! Look forward to hearing a pair.

[Spannko]

Worthwhile time to listen to designer of the speaker and also reviewer after the first lightening impression. Interesting comments on general loudspeaker designs by Linn over the years.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=760XDkB ... =youtu.ben

It seems that Linn’s primary focus now, is to make the loudspeaker disappear. From an aesthetic perspective, it also needs to exude a sense of luxury, to appeal to the owners of London and New York penthouses (or, more likely, their interior designers).

[Charlie1]

It was very much on the theory and science side but I still found that interesting and really look forward to hearing them. I think we've all learned that if the science was not applied without listening to the musical impact then they will fall short, but I want to hear them for myself before making any judgement. I think it's exciting that Linn are pushing themselves and trying to move on a step, even it it does up the price tag. I'm never gonna buy a pair or even own a used pair in 15 years from now but I'm still curious how they sound.

[lindsayt]

The basss drivers are tweaked Seas XM011-08 L22ROY2 newly developed by a team under Håvard Sollien, head of R&D. Don't know what model number the 6" low/mid is but it's also Seas Fabrikker as you clearly could tell from the distinctive cast ( Swedish sourced) alu chassis when they demonstrated their fancy mounting jig at Linn. Seas will do this for most OEM:s so nothing special there. Seas has a long association with Linn and the ceo has a full Linn system at home; 35 of its staff visited Linn in 2010 as a special company event. Seas also has a very advanced lab for speaker testing including a Klippel analyzer and one of the worlds largest anechoic chambers, Linn are no strangers there either:)

Thanks for that.

So were looking at something in the region of £3000 worth of Seas drivers per stereo pair of 360's. Give or take a bit, depending on the exact drivers and how much Seas charge Linn as a trade customer / partner.

[matss]

Yes, Linn seems to use drive units on the more expensive side of the market for their 360's. Gonna be exiting to hear what they make of them.

[lindsayt]

With the 360's you're looking at a retail price to component cost ratio of 10 to 1 (maybe more).

In 30 years time, you should be able to buy them at a price that's close to a 1 to 1 ratio.

Right now, by buying used or going DIY or both, you can get speakers where the ratio is below 1.
For example, for my current DIY speaker project I'm looking at a price to buy vs component cost ratio of 1 to 5 (maybe better in my favour).

That's an approximate 50 to 1 difference in the ratios between going to a dealer vs the hobbyist approach.

Seas drivers are good. But they wouldn't be my personal choice. With markiteight having already mentioned one very valid reason why: the lack of woofer size.

[andy2]

To the best of my knowledge Linn has a policy to monetize r&d cost over a 2yr span. That and the cabinets add a lot of cost.
Philbo is a gent and a scholar, sorry but that youtube video with Alan S was like scienterrific babyfood served up as a tasting menu on a 3 star restaurant,.

[markiteight]

The discussion about loudspeaker design considerations has been moved here.

-Moderator

[Lego]

Most certainly Linn will demo them at High End Munich next month. I am curious to listen to the 360s there.

Meant to ask earlier Matt,did you get a chance to listen to the 360s?

[matthias]

Most certainly Linn will demo them at High End Munich next month. I am curious to listen to the 360s there.

Meant to ask earlier Matt,did you get a chance to listen to the 360s?

Yes, see here:

viewtopic.php?p=70028#p70028

[sktn77a]

I lasted about a minute. When Gilad started talking about hearing things you’ve never heard before................ I wasn’t inclined to want to hear any more of his marketing blurb.

I posted this on that "other" forum, but it's so funny and applicable to this discussion:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWylKk0Y6PU&t=4s

[ThomasOK]

I have posted this on Wam/Linn and felt I should post it here as well.

I have now set up my first LP12-50 (with several more coming later). I will save some of you some time right now by stating up front that I cannot give you any musical comments on the unit. I only listened to it through an older NAD integrated amp and a pair of PSB Alpha speakers on the setup bench - nice but hardly representative of the type of system you would normally listen to a Klimax LP12 through. As I work for my old store on a contract basis, and as there wasn't a comparable Klimax LP12 to listen to, nor a system setup that I could easily jack into and hear what what was going on, I only have basic listening from setup to go on. Based on that all I can say is that it sounds like a Klimax LP12 but nothing popped out at me through that very basic system.

So this is more a report on the mechanicals. First and most obvious - the plinth. The plinth is almost completely dead acoustically with only a small amount of quickly damped high frequency ring when tapped. It is also very heavy! It weighs just under 9 pounds! (I didn't have a precise scale there.) This is over twice as heavy as the next heaviest plinth I have measured (one from Chris Harban) and easily more than twice than a stock Linn plinth. It is, of course very solid, well machined and I think it looks quite good in the natural finish (I haven't seen a white one in the flesh quite yet). With the stripy quality and the dark reddish finish (which they call natural but I doubt it) it is reminiscent of the original fluted afromosia plinths - appropriate in my mind for a 50th anniversary version of such an iconic design.

The top plate appears to be the same thickness as the standard stainless steel top plate, is made of the same material and has the same bolts, nuts, screws, springs, grommets, washers, etc. It has a new finish which is quite classy and shows up fingerprints less. It appears to be media blasted like the finish on Klimax amps, KRadikals, etc. and the Lejonklou SINGularity, giving a very nice satin quality. It is held in place the same way as the normal versions, two bolts in the middle and one in the motor corner although the instructions state that with the Bedrock plinth a cross brace is not needed. It is still susceptible to rattling in the switch corner and has to be fixed the same way, re-bending the top plate. The power switch is not attached to the top plate, it just fits into the hole. The power switch is mounted to the plinth and fits through the hole. It is basically flush with the top plate, looks good (by itself) and has a very nice feel to it.

The Keel is quite different, the most obvious thing being that it is two piece on the LP12-50 with the arm collar being bolted on as seen in other photos and below. Unusually, the arm collar is flat like the Akito one was, instead of having a cylinder extending into the armboard as the Ittok, Basiks and Ekos arms had, although the larger hole in the armboard part looks like it was made to accommodate that. Also unusually, the arm collar is affixed by four bolts making the LP12-50 Keel incompatible with any other arm collar. The armboard section not only has the rounded corners, as we have all seen, it is also smaller in size having a larger gap between it and the plinth/top plate all the way around. This is mentioned in the new instructions as part of the design.

The Ekos SE/1, Karousel and Ekstatik are all the same as any other units I have seen. The Radikal 2 is basically the same but it is designated as a Radikal 2-50 as the plug that goes into the power switch assembly has a 90° connector instead of a straight one and the cable to it is fitted with several inches of square foam to hold it into the channel in the left side of the plinth. Otherwise the only difference was a small piece of thin black, textured plastic to go on the inside lip of the outer platter instead of the black felt. The motor itself, the wiring and the Klimax Radikal chassis all appear to be exactly the same.

Then we have the hinges which are very nice, as are the new hinge plates. They will indeed hold the dust cover up at any angle up to 90° and they do also hold it solidly to the plinth when closed. The hinge plates are also very nicely machined aluminum and have flush fitting Torx 10 screws.

I have the definitive answer on whether the new hinges are compatible with older LP12s. The answer is indeed no. The new hinge plates are shorter left to right than the old ones and the screw holes don't line up. They do line up top to bottom meaning that you could line up two of then and drill two new holes, which would leave part of the old back and possibly the old holes showing. But that would mean the new hinge plates might not be centered and might not line up with the hinges. Some more measurements will be needed on that. Also the hinges themselves have tabs too thick to fit into the current hinge plates. Maybe some spacers would do it? But it sure seems like they were designed to not be backward compatible.

Finally there is a Urika-50. It is in a textured dark finish, almost black. The main metal plate has rounded corners and straight sides (not cut in like the normal one) and fits flush in the cutout all around. It is also held in by countersunk Torx 10 screws that are flush with the bottom when in place. They thread directly into holes in the plinth and have fine machine threads so you are warned not to over-tighten them. But if you just tighten them until they are snug you won't have the Urika fully against the plinth. It does take some force but just not too much so you have to be careful. The other difference here has to do with cable routing. The plinth has no holes in the back for cable exits so both interconnects and both power cables (motor and Urika) go through one hole cut in the back of the Urika, about where the chute used to be. This provides no strain relief for the motor power cable so pulling hard on it would be a very bad idea. It also makes it rather tricky trying to keep the power cables away from running next to the interconnect cables. In the past we found having those cables running parallel and close together was not a good idea. But the closeness can be minimized if you are careful. The actual Trampolin/Urika foot assembly seems to be exactly the same as on other versions. As noted in the plinth section, we are now being told we need to use the threaded feet for leveling.

I think that's about it but I'm open to questions. A few photos showing the Keel/arm collar.

[Charlie1]

Great post - thanks Thomas!!!

I've added it to the LP12 Product History page.

Is there a unique serial number for these or do they just follow the current numbering?

I guess it's safe to assume Linn has a new arm in the pipeline then.

[Tendaberry]

Big thanks for this info, Tom!