Music system powered by solar panels

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Hermann
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Music system powered by solar panels

Post by Hermann »

I don't know if this topic belongs in this area. If not, please move accordingly.

Over the weekend I had helped a friend install two solar panels that actually put in around 600W during the day, even though there was hardly any sunshine.

I might also install solar panels that feed the same power into the home network. As well known, the electricity generated is adjusted to the house voltage by means of an inverter.

In the run-up, I'm interested in the extent to which someone has already done this and how the music system reacts to it. Are negative influences to be expected? Are there any empirical values in relation to the playback quality of the music system?

According to the measured value of the electronic meter, the system would (can) be operated completely via the panels during the day.
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Re: Music system powered by solar panels

Post by matthias »

Hermann wrote: 2022-11-03 10:28 In the run-up, I'm interested in the extent to which someone has already done this and how the music system reacts to it. Are negative influences to be expected? Are there any empirical values in relation to the playback quality of the music system?
Hi Hermann,

maybe these articles are helpful:

https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/bits-and ... ten-r1058/

https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/bits-and ... rid-r1072/

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Hermann
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Re: Music system powered by solar panels

Post by Hermann »

Thanks matthias,

extensive technical explanation, but his conclusion suggests that the impact is small or non-existent. The size of his project is quite extensive and certainly not necessarily comparable to my plans.

I also don't believe in battery power, which I could hear years ago with Naim preamps whose power supplies were rechargeable.

The extent to which the musicality of an "optimized" system is affected is of course not worked out. An interesting conclusion nonetheless.
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Re: Music system powered by solar panels

Post by lejonklou »

Hello Hermann!

I have heard several reports of terrible loss of sound quality after the installation of solar power and associated charging systems. Changes so big that owners don’t enjoy listening to music any more.

Until recently I had no direct experience with this, but now I have. A good friend has moved into a house where they have two separate electrical systems; one is mainly powered by solar but can be beefed up by the grid if necessary and the other is grid only and powers the kitchen.

I asked whether he had compared the two electrical systems for powering his music system. He had not, so we did. It was a BIG difference in favour of the grid feeding the kitchen.
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Re: Music system powered by solar panels

Post by anthony »

Do they still influence the sound at night when not producing electricity,
Or does the system have to be disconnected.
I installed 6 panels and didn’t really notice any degradation, no battery storage.
I expect the inverter is the most important factor.
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Re: Music system powered by solar panels

Post by ThomasOK »

I expect these kinds of questions are going to become more prevalent as time goes on. I had already mentioned the possibility to Fredrik of making "Tesla" versions of his electronics that would run directly off the DC in the power storage units (mainly in jest, I should clarify). But there are so many new variables introduced by this kind of system and they could all change the sound of the system. The panels, the wiring, the storage systems, what batteries the storage systems use, the inverter (which I do expect would be a major influence), the circuit that switches between the solar system and the grid, etc.

Also the grid itself, at least in the US, is generally a combination of generators - some driven by fossil fuels, some hydraulic, some the steam from nuclear reaction, solar power and wind turbines. In my area I know all three are used as DTE has a solar farm I see on the way to work every day and as you go up north a bit in Michigan there are huge wind farms all over the place. Who knows how much each source is contributing to the grid at any given time and how much that influences what you hear. Obviously we have mostly heard how the system often seems more musical at night when overall draw on the grid is low compared to middle of the day when the draw is the highest. Anybody want to do an in depth series of listening sessions over time to their system noting how it sounds at night vs. during the day, when there is no wind vs. a lot of wind, when it is very cloudy vs. sunny and combined variables? I am not volunteering but I thought I'd bring up these thoughts just as something to ponder.
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Hermann
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Re: Music system powered by solar panels

Post by Hermann »

Thank you very much for the explanations and hints. The fact that this topic will receive significantly more attention in the future is also a reason why I am addressing it.

In my case would be no battery storage, nor would there be a switch between grid and solar power. It goes without saying that the inverter is the weakest link in the chain. Before reproducible empirical values ​​emerge regarding the influence of the inverter on the musicality of a system will probably be years.

If it were a deterioration in the sound quality, it would only occur during the day. However, it would cover the need for power during the day to keep the music system on all the time, especially if I'm away for a few days. After all, the NDS needs about 40 W when idling and the Tundra Stereo, according to the meter, about 25 W, which means an annual consumption of about 570 kWh. Sagatuns and KRad/2 are negligible.

As I wrote above, a battery solution would be out of the question. There were some manufacturers in the 90s who swear by battery operation of their phonos or preamps, but they all just sounded boring. I wasn't interested in the development, as long as one exists.

Perhaps the proximity of the solar power feed to the audio system affects the sound. In Germany it is permitted to install a "balcony system" with a power of up to 600W without registering a trade or with the help of a craftsman. Beyond that, it gets complicated. The panels are plugged together and plugged into the nearest socket using a Schuko plug. That's all.
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Re: Music system powered by solar panels

Post by Defender »

I didnt have scientific evidence but my gut feeling since more and more neighbors have installed solar panels around me is that the day and night listening difference got worst. I am attributing this to the solar panels with their inverters.
The grid management got much more complex with those wind parks and solar farms providing and not providing energy changes within minutes to a degree that generators now are used as load to burn energy which is too much available. Keep in mind too less energy changes the frequency and too much too.
A friend works at Siemens in the generator production and says generators which have usually a livetime of 10-20 years and more sometimes break earlier than 4 years because of heating up … cooling down … heating up etc.
He says if you are in a power plant and a wind park is switched into the grid you can actually hear it - it is like a shockwave going through the grid.
I am keeping my hands of from solar.
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Re: Music system powered by solar panels

Post by lejonklou »

You have a point, Defender. The efficiency of the grid revolves around predictable power. Things that switch on and off can be effective locally (mainly by charging batteries) but over distances not so much.

When it comes to our HiFi systems, I have always found the rule of distance to be valid; the closer to your system, the more it affects your music. That is not just an arbitrary rule that turns out to work in practice, but actually how the grid works. Transporting electricity longer distances requires stability, which happens to be good for HiFi. It matters little whether it’s water, oil or nuclear generated. They all sound the same when they’re turned into power on the grid far away from you.

Local energy sources are an entirely different matter, as inverters and associated electronics have the potential of making a lot of noise. I’m convinced this can be done in a very good way, but there’s a lot of dedicated work required until we get there.
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Re: Music system powered by solar panels

Post by sunbeamgls »

We've had solar panels for about 8 years. They are the type that connect to a large single inverter.
I'm not aware of any effect they have on the musicaliy of the system - there is no consistency of effect of when they're contributing and when they're not. Unless the circuity is contributing "something" when active or not.

FYI my source components run from a PS Audio regenerator whilst power amps are connected directly to the wall sockets. This may, or may not, be relevant.

I suspect, like pretty much all discussions related to mains power, the effects of one combination of power source, building wiring, time of day, make of panels, hifi components, mains cables, interconnects, rack layout, cable routing etc etc has so many things different to any other system (in its most holistic sense) doesn't extrapolate well to other combinations.
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Re: Music system powered by solar panels

Post by Charlie1 »

Defender wrote: 2022-11-04 20:04 I didnt have scientific evidence but my gut feeling since more and more neighbors have installed solar panels around me is that the day and night listening difference got worst. I am attributing this to the solar panels with their inverters.
The grid management got much more complex with those wind parks and solar farms providing and not providing energy changes within minutes to a degree that generators now are used as load to burn energy which is too much available. Keep in mind too less energy changes the frequency and too much too.
A friend works at Siemens in the generator production and says generators which have usually a livetime of 10-20 years and more sometimes break earlier than 4 years because of heating up … cooling down … heating up etc.
He says if you are in a power plant and a wind park is switched into the grid you can actually hear it - it is like a shockwave going through the grid.
I am keeping my hands of from solar.
It might be getting worse but during a village power outage last year we had a trunk with diesel generator parked on the road and that was definitely worse than mains power.
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Re: Music system powered by solar panels

Post by sunbeamgls »

Defender wrote: 2022-11-04 20:04
He says if you are in a power plant and a wind park is switched into the grid you can actually hear it - it is like a shockwave going through the grid.
I am keeping my hands of from solar.
An interesting observation. These are high voltage suppliers using a physical device to generate the electricity. I don't think this can be considered as something that tells us much about a few solid state panels on a home roof.
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Re: Music system powered by solar panels

Post by Defender »

sunbeamgls wrote: 2022-11-10 23:38
Defender wrote: 2022-11-04 20:04
He says if you are in a power plant and a wind park is switched into the grid you can actually hear it - it is like a shockwave going through the grid.
I am keeping my hands of from solar.
An interesting observation. These are high voltage suppliers using a physical device to generate the electricity. I don't think this can be considered as something that tells us much about a few solid state panels on a home roof.
that statement was not related to solar panels on a home roof but to difficulty of grid management when you have less and less base load sources and more and more power sources like wind and solar.
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Re: Music system powered by solar panels

Post by sunbeamgls »

Defender wrote: 2022-11-12 21:30
sunbeamgls wrote: 2022-11-10 23:38
Defender wrote: 2022-11-04 20:04
He says if you are in a power plant and a wind park is switched into the grid you can actually hear it - it is like a shockwave going through the grid.
I am keeping my hands of from solar.
An interesting observation. These are high voltage suppliers using a physical device to generate the electricity. I don't think this can be considered as something that tells us much about a few solid state panels on a home roof.
that statement was not related to solar panels on a home roof but to difficulty of grid management when you have less and less base load sources and more and more power sources like wind and solar.
But your last sentence?
KSH/0; KEBox/2; 3x Tundra Stereo 2.5; PMC fact.12. Blogger. Exakt Design. SO measuring.
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